Talk:2008 Pacific typhoon season/Archive 2

Citing Rammasun's Naming
There are two citings of Rammasun's naming. Can someone clean this up and renumber if necessary?

"The name Rammasun was submitted by Thailand and is named after the Thai God of Thunder. [28]"

"The name "Rammasun" was submitted by Thailand, and means "God of Thunder".[23]"

WebCiting JTWC advisories
For the Typhoon Nakri section, I've WebCited a JTWC advisory, is that allowed since after I've realised that some sections used another link to cite JTWC advisories. -- Irfan Faiz  10:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it's perfectly fine to do so. Thanks for updating the Nakri section! -- RattleMan 11:24, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Infobox
Do we have a way of making the infobox into a current "typhoon" one, instead of "hurricane" and "major hurricane"? The previous one was replaced probably because it was for past seasons, but it's now hurricanes and not typhoons... -- typhoon  chaser  11:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It could be changed, though I think it would be better to just use the normal season template instead. If the parameter that adds the number of landfalls is important, it could be added to the season template. ACE values outside the Atlantic and East Pacific are kind of sketchy because wind speeds averaged over a ten minute period are usually going to be lower than wind speeds averaged for one minute.Potapych (talk) 17:45, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Kalmaegi
Taiwan's CWB is currently reporting this as a tropical storm, NOT a typhoon. There has been significant damage in the area where I live. I already have a couple of pictures and if the weather lets up later today, I will go to a couple of places with more significant damage reported and post it here. ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 03:07, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Central Weather Bureau never did upgrade to typhoon, did they..? - グリフオーザー (talk) 03:44, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe it did, but even the JMA update in the text of the article has it listed as a tropical storm before it made landfall in Ilan County. ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 05:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I have put in some information with references to local CHinese language media - the same information should be available in English language media in the morning. I will make the replacements tomorrow as they become available.  ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 12:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I hate to burst your JMA/JTWC loving bubbles (actually, no I don't) but this storm WAS downgraded to a tropical storm PRIOR to hitting Taiwan by Taiwan's CWB. They issue more frequent bulletins when storms approach the country and have more timely data on such storms.  It was not a typhoon when it hit our country, but was a tropical storm.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080718/wl_asia_afp/taiwanweatherstorm_080718063334 "Kalmaegi was downgraded from a typhoon to a tropical storm as it bore down the east coast Thursday night and was moving away from the island although torrential rains were expected on Friday, the bureau said." If we want Wikipedia to be truly accurate and objective, this information MUST be included, else it just provides another example why more and more people do not accept Wikipedia as an authoritative source for information. http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2008/07/19/2003417912 "Tropical Storm Kalmaegi lashed central and southern Taiwan with torrential rains yesterday, triggering flash floods and landslides that left at least 13 people dead and several missing as it moved toward China." ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 01:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


 * You can say that the CWB downgraded it to a tropical storm; I have no problem with that. However, the JMA is the official RSMC for this basin and said that Kalmaegi was still a typhoon at the time it made landfall. Whatever you write, you must keep this information. -- RattleMan 02:04, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I can accept such a compromise. I will introduce such a wording in a few minutes.  PLease check to see if it acceptable to you.  ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 08:42, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * BTW, on what basis is the JMA the official RSMC for "this basis?" Once it is in Taiwan waters, it comes under Taiwan's jurisdiction, and none other.  ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 08:43, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Who is working on the main article for this storm? I have taken some pictures the past couple of days and will try to take some more later today.  ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 08:56, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

The World Meteorological Organization designates who is the RSMC in the various basins. See this picture to see what RSMC Tokyo (JMA) covers; it's the entire Western Pacific Ocean. The pink straight lines are the boundaries between each and the solid red areas are the tracks that cyclones tend to take. Your current wording in the article sounds good to me. -- RattleMan 09:11, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Taiwan is not a member of the WMO and thus, once the storm is in its national territory, it does NOT supercede Taiwanese authorities in terms of officiality. ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 10:32, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

RSMC-JMA (Tokyo)

Date/Time                 (10 min winds)    Direction of    Pressure (in UTC)   Lat   Lon     Sust  Gust   Movement (Kts)  (in mb)  Status     Remarks

17/1200Z  24.1N 122.1E    70   100     NNW    09       965     Typhoon   Weakened 17/1800Z  24.6N 120.9E    65   95      WNW    12       970     Typhoon   Over N.Taiwan -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by VOFFA (talk • contribs)

Citing Rammasun's Naming
There are two citings of Rammasun's naming. Can someone clean this up and renumber if necessary?

"The name Rammasun was submitted by Thailand and is named after the Thai God of Thunder. [28]"

"The name "Rammasun" was submitted by Thailand, and means "God of Thunder".[23]"

Jerry (talk) 12:31, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

I got rid of 28 to conform with other storms' format. HkCaGu (talk) 16:00, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Issue with WebCite
There is an issue with many links to webcite. Technically all references are where they belong. OTOH, try out f.ex. Neoguri's warnings archived at: It all links to the same page, TY 0801 NEOGURI (0801) UPGRADED FROM STS from April, 16th, 12:00 UTC. For finding the particular statement which is to be referred, you just have to choose by the pull down menue Cached: in the upper right of the web page Webcitation provides. That's pretty much annoying. Any ideas how to resolve that? Is the collection on the Florida State University's FTP site stable? --213.155.231.26 (talk) 14:32, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * http://www.webcitation.org/5X5nrYZTc
 * http://www.webcitation.org/5X6yM0PCd
 * http://www.webcitation.org/5X7hhM1eS


 * WebCite is strange this way. Once you click the first link, you must wait a few seconds until the page completely loads before clicking the next one. They're all there and working fine. Thanks for checking, though. -- RattleMan 15:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oops, true. Something learned. --Matthiasb (talk) 19:19, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Kalmaegi Article
So people are aware i am currently working on an sandbox article for Kalmaegi Jason Rees (talk) 15:31, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Fung-Wong
As it turns out, it seems I am in the direct path of another storm. If anything happens here, I will try to help out. ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 00:18, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Does anyone object if I add updated LOCATIONAL information only (not strength) from Taiwan's CWB updates which are more frequent at this stage than either those from the JMA or PAGASA. ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 00:19, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The infobox should keep the JMA location. I don't care if you add a paragraph for the CWB under the Current storm info section. -  CWY2190    ( talk  •  contributions )  00:47, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed on the infobox, that needs to be consistent. Thanks for agreeing that the CWB info is useful.  ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 00:49, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I am monitoring Taiwan's broadcast media and will try to keep updates current during waking hours tonight and tomorrow. My Mandarin and Chinese has improved since this time last year, so I hope to have information in a more timely manner.  Also, while I only work on articles when they threaten Taiwan, I would like to be added as a member to the Tropical Cyclones Wikiproject if you all would have me.  ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 09:46, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * All we are getting where I live right now is moderate rain despite the center of the storm being only 30 km to our east. So, unless things change, no pictures this time.  Looks nasty in the mountains, the east and the north based on what I see on TV.  ludahai 魯大海 (talk) 04:16, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

All you have to do is to go to WP:WPTC and go to users and add your name to the list. --Elena85 | Talk to Me | Arlene87 is now Elena85 13:04, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

JMA track maps
JMA track maps are not released into the public domain as the images are copyrighted and not created by the US Federal Government. IrfanFaiz 07:30, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * We don't use any maps of the JMA. However the track maps are based on data issued by the JMA. Those data are public domain. --Matthiasb (talk) 17:52, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * But this image is not released into the public domain (it's not a US Federal Government image). -Ramisses (talk) 17:59, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That's the one I meant. --IrfanFaiz 08:10, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that. I don't know all the copyright specifications for images yet or how they even work for that matter yet. I'm still in high school so I'm not well educated in that area just yet. Sorry about causing that little commotion again Cyclonebiskit (talk) 04:09, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Fung-wong in China...
What are the effects of storm Fung-wong in China??? Please indicate it here... By the way I'll put the update template on the Fung-wong section... -Pika ten10 (talk) 13:31, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Dissipation date
I would like to note that the JMA is still refering to the "remnants" of Fung-wong as a tropical depression in the WWJP25 product. Any reason we put the system as dissipated when the final advisory is issued and not when it ceases to be a tropical depression? - CWY2190    ( talk  •  contributions )  00:09, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * We could resume the JMA Tropical Weather Summaries notes - グリフオーザー (talk) 06:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah we should resume recording the jma's WWJP25 advisories for as long as it is still a depression Jason Rees (talk) 11:08, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles
Can we start makeing articles for all storms that affected land yet... i need help as I'm useless with codeing )= Itfc+canes=me (talk) 17:05, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well by the looks of things the only storm that would be worth it is Fung-Wong in my opinon Jason Rees (talk) 21:10, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Halong has killed more people than Fung-wong so in my opinion, I think it should have a article too. If no one objects, I will start a sandbox here User:Elena85/Halong. --Elena85 | Talk to Me | Arlene87 is now Elena85 12:03, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * no objections from me. Jason Rees (talk) 17:58, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok... I'll help with that..... also... I've published the article: Typhoon Fung-Wong/IGME


 * An Article is now in place for Kammuri Jason Rees (talk) 01:53, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok --Itfc+canes=me (talk) 20:09, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That's very good... If I have time, I think I can start an article once a storm is named by JMA. -Pika ten10 (talk) 03:40, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Fung-wong references...
The Typhoon Fung-wong section needs more references especially on what has been there about its effects in Taiwan. That constituted the bulk of the section, yet we can't verify where that large amount of information came from. -Pika ten10 (talk) 03:07, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

The Kammuri section must be developed first before making it an article
The Kammuri section already has an article yet the section where it came from is still undeveloped. I think we must never do an article from a section unless that section has enough verifiable info to stand by itself and thus is an article in its own right. Imagine, the Kammuri section has very meagre (though verifiable) information that I think is just a paragraph or two. You know, it's like constructing an essay with only its introduction having been finished... Expand the section where that article came from first, then make that article again -Pika ten10 (talk) 12:25, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * No. I think that all those storm descriptions in this years season are much too long. See, the artcile has a length of 58k at this moment, with about 10 systems left behind, which might county to 120-130k for the whole season. Especially Fengshen, Kalmagi, and Fung-Wong contain information which rather should be included in the storm article, not in the season article. And with Kammuri it's going to be the same. Merging in Tropical Storm Kammuri (2008) isn't a good idea, I think. Just my 2 cents. --Matthiasb (talk) 18:57, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Button bar
We could use a button bar for this season, given most storms have an article. The problem is how to list them; in the Atlantic and EPAC, we have a naming list from A onward, whereas in the WPAC there is a rotating list of names. I think the best way to solve that (somewhat minor) issue is to number them, since the JMA does that for each storm, from 01 onward. This is what it would look like.

As you can see, the Saffir-Simpson scale is still in there, because I can't find, or we don't even have, a template for the WPAC colours (depression, TS, STS, and typhoon). Would something like that be appropriate? ♬♩ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 02:19, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yep it would be good to have a button bar for all of the seasons Basins out of the NHC AOR. For the JMA Colours Could we not use the colours we curently have in the infobox and have a bit of consistency. Jason Rees (talk) 22:39, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I've created a JMAsmall here. The columns still need to be aligned. It uses JTWC TD (we don't cover JMA TDs), JMA TS, JMA STS, then uses the SSHS for typhoons. -- RattleMan 23:30, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You can try first letter capitalized, second letter lowercase. It will fit like all those unnamed storms in the Atlantic. What is the gray one for? Rammasun was a typhoon and its intensity was known. The colors for the infobox are all listed here Infobox_Hurricane_Small, and it would be easier if you guys used those since changes to them can be applied across wikipedia.Potapych (talk) 00:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * For the meantime we can temporarily use the SSHS here until the JMA scale is finished. -Pika ten10 (talk) 05:29, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Anyone notice that the JMA use "strong (65-84 kts), very strong (85-104 kts), and very intense (105+ kts)" categories for typhoons? - グリフオーザー (talk) 06:13, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I updated and published the template. Potapych, I did not do your suggestion of doing the first two letters, since Kalmaegi and Kammuri show the problem with that. I left it with the numbers. Feel free to edit and change it. ♬♩ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 16:53, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Can we keep the buttons to only offical storms which are Named by JMA Jason Rees (talk) 23:23, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that we should. One quick note - someone changed the system from the numbers to the names. I think that is a bad idea, because there is no real order to the names, and as I pointed out earlier, both Kammuri and Kalmaegi have the same starting letters. ♬♩ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 12:12, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

TD alert
A Tropical Depression southeast of Japan is currently being monitored by JMA. Please watch for for updates as this can possibly develop to a Tropical Storm. -Pika ten10 (talk) 05:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC) Reference: 0300 UTC 10 Aug JMA warning
 * 93W is the depression the JMA is monitoring. So it is being covered =) -- グリフオーザー (talk) 05:52, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

TC name etymology and how to describe it
Please do not simply say "the name means XXX", as this may put things out of context. For example, see Laos list at HKO's website


 * Leepi: Most beautiful waterfall in southern Lao
 * Pabuk: Big fresh water fish
 * Chan-hom: A kind of tree
 * Nock-ten: Bird
 * Phanfone: Animal
 * Faxai: Lady name
 * Bolaven: Plateau
 * Ketsana: A kind of tree
 * Namtheun: River
 * Pakhar: A fresh water fish which lives in lower Mekong River

It's easily verifiable on the internet that there are places known as "Bolaven Plateau" and "Namtheun River". Following this context, Faxai is a lady name, not Faxai means lady name. Phanfone is an animal, not Phanfone means animal. I can't imagine any country submitting a categorical word for a TC name. On the other hand, there are too many TC names that are of specific species. In Laos' case, the country's weather bureau apparently does not know enough English to know that exact species names of those trees, bird, animal and fish. That doesn't make "Phanfone means animal". HkCaGu (talk) 08:11, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Given almost every storm name has a meaning, can't we just create an article with the TC name meanings? I think it is clutter to have to mention in every section of what the names mean (though I think it is appropriate for actual storm articles). ♬♩ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 13:20, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Actully that would be a good idea as in the article they just clutter it up - Though when if we do get an article together for the name meanings we must include the meanings of the names since 2000 Jason Rees (talk) 16:49, 12 August 2008 (UTC)


 * FWIW, we should probably do the same with the CPac names, as we mention that X is Hawaiian for whatever, eg Mele means song and is the Hawaiian form of Mary. The article on the CPHC could also take this (but that is only for the current list; old names would have to be somewhere else). Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 18:06, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Inconsistency
I've seen in the infobox that says this "Major hurricanes (Cat 3+)". Yet one said there is only one storm that made it to Cat 3 or more. And I've seen a note in the article's editbox that says "This refers to Super Typhoons which are at least 130 Knots". Furthermore, there are already 11 storms named by JMA, and this infobox declares this is still ten. Again, as is the case earlier, there is a note that says:"Above 33 Knots". I think one must indicate those notes (which are actually pertinent info for those statistics) over in the infobox or else that would seem inconsistent. For your convenience, I have copied the infobox and put the inconsistencies inside the [brackets].

 -Pika ten10 (talk) 10:15, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * what happened to the typhoon and intense storms category instead of "total hurricanes and major hurricanes" option. - グリフオーザー (talk) 19:14, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * the Infobox is now correct with all the correct Categories as well on the fornt page Jason Rees (talk) 22:55, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

New articles
I have set up a sandbox for typhoon rammasun. click here for it Itfc+canes=me (talk) 09:34, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Article is created Itfc+canes=me (talk) 09:34, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I Have set up a Sandbox article for Typhoon Nuri here i will be publishing it in due course. Jason Rees (talk) 22:41, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * it has now been published with thanks to User:Elena85 Jason Rees (talk) 19:12, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * You could do articles for Sudal, Rananim, and Nabi. Those have been retired.Potapych (talk) 17:34, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Um... what ones? Itfc+canes=me (talk) 21:04, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Typhoon Sudal and Ranamin from '04 and Nabi from '05 or '04 --Elena85 | Talk to Me | 1000 ''edits!!!' 22:00, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok... I'm gonna need help Itfc+canes=me (talk) 14:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Sinlaku Sandbox Started. it is not to be published untill the depression is named Jason Rees (talk) 16:34, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

ACE
where are we getting the data for the JTWC ace from? Jason Rees (talk) 16:27, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I've been using the Running Best Track Data located here. I got the actual numbers from an ACE program for windows made by User:RattleMan. I haven't updated it recently because the ACE from the JMA on the Digital Typhoon site has been out of whack and not showing numbers that look correct, like for Rammasun it has 1.1812E+05. Never mind about it being out of whack, just figured it out, 1.1812E+05 is 11.8125, don't know why they have it in a strange way. Either way, since I've been using a Mac for a little while I can't use RattleMan's program, therefore I haven't updated. I'll update the JMA ACE now and the JTWC later tonight. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 00:51, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok that checks out. Allthough i would suggest we round the data to 2 decimal places to make it easier to read and update (ie for Neoguri the ace would be 7.00). Jason Rees (talk) 03:41, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you want to do ACE Calcs using a Mac and can use Microsoft Excel, try this Excel spreadsheet that I recently developed. All you have to do is enter knot speeds in the "Knots" column; the formulas within will do the rest. -- RattleMan 05:34, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Dang RattleMan, those two programs are amazing! not to mention extremely helpful. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 16:28, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

New Potential Storm
PAGASA is now monitoring a low-pressure area east of Bicol. It has a potential to become a tropical depression. And I think that is also the one being monitored by the JTWC as a tropical disturbance. See it here... And I forgot, it was already named "Lawin" at 0900 UTC. -Pika ten10 (talk) 10:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Please monitor this storm very carefully as this can develop further to a Tropical Storm and be named by JMA or JTWC. Especially, JTWC reports this as "fair to become a significant tropical cyclone over the next 24 hours". Update everything, OK??? -Pika ten10 (talk) 12:26, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


 * JMA has LPA 1008 hPa.. and I didn't see the JTWC "Fair" update earlier when I updated the list. ^_^' - グリフオーザー (talk) 13:48, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

JTWC has issued an TCFA already... and JMA has it already as an TD albeit 25 kts. Should be the next named storm. Sonpudong (talk) 03:25, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Lets wait and see wat happens as the JTWC issued a TCFA and the JMA classifed Gener as a weak TD but it did not develop any further Jason Rees (talk) 14:25, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We have TD 14W --Elena85 | Talk to Me | 1000 ''edits!!!' 14:32, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * we also now have a JMA TD of 30Kts Jason Rees (talk) 14:47, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * JTWC Has just upgraded it to a Tropical Storm on its latest bulletin... major discrepancies on position though, from 14 deg for PAGASA to 16 deg for JMA... Typical of a depression that is hard to trace its center...Sonpudong (talk) 02:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Why it was put under the name Super Typhoon Sinlaku? It's just a TS by JTWC, even JMA had not given it any name yet. 219.93.152.130 (talk) 08:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * it was an IP adresses who put it on & is counted as Vandelisum Jason Rees (talk) 17:48, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Currently no more advisories are issued by the RSMC as of 21:00 PM JST (Aug27). -- グリフオーザー (talk) 17:52, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * But WWJP25 Warnings are continuing for now Jason Rees (talk) 21:54, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

JTWC Tropical Disturbance
As of 0600 UTC August 30th JTWC identified a tropical disturbance located near 26.5°N 153.7°E. [http://205.85.40.22/jtwc/ab/abpwweb.txt More info? See it here.] -Pika ten10 (talk) 06:09, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It's being monitored as "90W.INVEST". See the top of this page. -- RattleMan 06:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Just added 91W tropical disturbance summary as well -- グリフオーザー (talk) 21:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Both Tropical Disturbances 90W and 91W dissipated, but another one east-northeast of Tokyo developed. This is rated as fair, so please monitor this closely and regularly. -Pika ten10 (talk) 10:54, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't worry, we're monitoring it at the top of this page too :) -- RattleMan 20:19, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The Logs have now been updated with 92W dissipating Jason Rees (talk) 07:48, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Sinlaku
Is Currently playing in my sandbox i will publish it once it is ready Sinlaku Jason Rees (talk) 23:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

JTWC Tropical Storm 16W
JTWC has already named a storm now southeast of Tokyo. I have started the section for you to update the earliest time possible. Please update it... -Pika ten10 (talk) 10:01, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok ive updated but i will update further with JTWCS downgrade of 16W in a moJason Rees (talk) 17:27, 10 September 2008 (UTC)