Talk:2008 UEFA Cup final

Judge's call
At the end of the opening paragraph, his statement of ... The event was described by Judge Andrew Blake as being "the worst night of violence and destruction suffered by Manchester city centre since the blitz." ... is something which should be debated. While there sure is every condemnation for the actions of these poeple, Rangers fans or not, the attempted mass murder by the I.R.A. in 1996 (see "Manchester bombing" article on the Manchester WIKI page) was sure more severe than a night of hooliganism. I'm surprised that he didn't call for an independent public inquiry, which is quite often the case after public disorder incidents, especially if the damage was allegedly so widespread. That he didn't is very telling. Ynnis (talk) 09:07, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * that quote is out of place on this article, and questionable whether it should be included anywhere else either. Monkeymanman (talk) 14:57, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Removed paragraph
I have removed the following paragraph from the lead:
 * "In recent years, the UEFA Cup final has been given an identity of its own with a unique logo, a design concept, and an overall theme. The objective is to help promote the final and enhance the prestige of one of the world's biggest footballing events. The initial idea that inspired the creation of a new identity for each final was to develop a design with a distinctive flavour of the host city. On 6 December in Manchester, the Final's new design was presented to public. The ceremony was held at this year's venue, the City of Manchester Stadium. This year's host city, Manchester, has lent its own unique identity to the Final's design, with a picture of the City of Manchester Stadium created by the eminent English artist Liam Spencer used by UEFA."

This is full of non-neutral boardspeak advertising. I have italicized some examples of this. This is not a corporate press release, it's a Wikipedia article, and if it's to be included, it should be written neutrally. A ecis Brievenbus 13:14, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I can see nothing wrong with the first bit you highlighted. The UEFA Cup is one of the world's biggest football events. Period. The second bit is also fine, as it does not express an opinion about anything in particular. It merely describes the objective of this marketing project. Finally, I would agree that the word "eminent" could be removed, so that's a non-issue too. Therefore, I will re-add the paragraph, minus the word "eminent". – PeeJay 14:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The text was partly a copyvio of the UEFA website, which says: "The UEFA Champions League final has, in recent years, been given an identity of its own with a unique logo, a design concept and an overall theme. The objective is to help promote the final and enhance the prestige of one of the world's biggest sporting events. The initial idea that inspired the creation of a new identity for each final was to develop a specific design with a distinctive flavour of the host city." I have removed that, and rewritten what remained. A  ecis Brievenbus 15:40, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah right, I wasn't aware it had been pilfered from elsewhere. Nice catch. – PeeJay 15:43, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I know you weren't, I know you wouldn't let copyvio material stay in an article. I wasn't aware of it either, otherwise I would have deleted it right away. A  ecis Brievenbus 15:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Match details
Davis and Whittaker are in each other's positions on the team listings and on the .svg of the lineups. WATP  (talk) • (contribs) 19:45, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * According to UEFA, Davis played on the left wing and Whittaker played on the right. Is this not correct? – PeeJay 20:42, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope, Davis has never played a game for Rangers on the left.  WATP   (talk) • (contribs) 12:05, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The trouble is that we have here a reliable source that says that he did. If you can find another source that categorically states that Davis played on the right in the UEFA Cup final, then I can change it. – PeeJay 12:11, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, This is the discussion, as prompted by, but not started by,Monkeymanman
So, apparently an edit I made, in which a public figure is clearly quoted, in an article written in a mainstream publication, needs to be discussed.

Why?

The edit I made was

"The event was described by Judge Andrew Blake as being "the worst night of violence and destruction suffered by Manchester city centre since the blitz.""

Judge Andrew Blake said that the event was "the worst night of violence and destruction suffered by Manchester city centre since the blitz."

It says so

here http://www.scotsman.com/rangersfc/Rangers-fans-guilty-of-worst.6512962.jp here http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/03/hooligans-sentenced-uefa-violence-manchester here http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/197500/Rangers-thugs-pay-price-for-worst-mayhem-since-Blitz- here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-11183103 here http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/09/04/riot-yobs-jailed-115875-22536077/ here http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1902696 here http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/3124784/11-Rangers-fans-jailed.html here http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2010/09/04/football-thugs-who-rioted-in-manchester-during-rangers-uefa-cup-final-appearance-are-jailed-for-16-years-86908-22536262/ here http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/3124784/11-Rangers-fans-jailed.html here http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=162109 and here http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/national-news/football_hooligans_to_be_jailed_1_1041949

It clearly states that Judge Andrew Blake is quoted as having said that it was "the worst night of violence and destruction suffered by Manchester city centre since the blitz."

Is it being denied that this is what was said? Is it being denied that these are reliable sources?

What exactly is the problem? Are there vested interests at work here?

This is an open and shut case. The statement was made, it was reported, it has been verifies by reliable sources.

Please stop vandalising this article to remove material with which you have a personal problem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.234.25 (talk) 02:38, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * the statement is out of place on this article, but has already been worked into the appropriate article very well by Rockpocket. Monkeymanman (talk) 12:56, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added tag to http://en.archive.uefa.com/competitions/uefacup/history/season%3D2008/round%3D15124/match%3D301605/report%3Drp.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100625234536/http://en.archive.uefa.com/competitions/uefacup/history/season%3D2008/intro.html to http://en.archive.uefa.com/competitions/uefacup/history/season%3D2008/intro.html

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External links modified
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External links modified
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Rangers positions
Whittaker played on the left hand side of midfield and Davis was on the right. 81.104.238.85 (talk) 03:02, 15 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Can you provide a reliable source for that? – PeeJay 19:19, 2 January 2023 (UTC)