Talk:2009 IndyCar Series

Driver chart listing for Helio Castroneves
It hasn't yet been confirmed that Helio won't be driving for Penske if he is acquitted of tax evasion charges before the season begins. I believe that he should be listed as the #3's driver with a note that he may be removed depending on his trial status. At least until we've heard something from Penske on the matter. Opinions? Bolt Crank (talk) 22:28, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete: If Castroneves won't appear, not even in testing, unless he is cleared, then should he actually not appear as a driver on the list at all. Essentially Power has the gig, but he may at some point be replaced? Any driver may be replaced at some point depending on circumstance, the fact that Power's potential replacement has a specific name is immaterial. At this point in time Castroneves is not driving and he should be deleted. The note is fine as it is however I believe. --Falcadore (talk) 07:42, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism watch
If you frequent this page, please be on the lookout for vandalism which has recently started. An unsubscribed user has a history of vandalism, and has now found the 2009 IndyCar page. As always, all edits made to a page can be tracked through the page's edit history, so please be watchful of further misinformation that you find. 67.189.108.56 (talk) 03:47, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Um, I don't know who but... Someone deleted Milka from NHL team line up. Only thing is the references on page point to her being in team, so why is she gone now?  Mistake or what?--Amedeo Félix (talk) 19:14, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * She was not listed on the entry list for the Honda Grand Prix of St. Petersburg. Go to IndyCar.com to see for yourself. According to this article, she lost her Citgo money. -Drdisque (talk) 19:29, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

2009 IndyCar Series schedule development (alternate)
Here's an alternate, reference-style listing of the schedule, based on the same chart from the 2008 Talk page. it can be used for quick reference. It doesn't have a place on the main page, but it may have some use here on the talk page. Doctorindy (talk) 12:33, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * revised with updated schedule Doctorindy (talk) 21:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

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Drivers list sources
I was just wondering what sources would be needed to add information to the drivers/teams list. Looking on the IndyCar.com drivers list, there are several drivers and teams there that either aren't listed in the list or are listed with different drivers.

Are we just waiting for a proper source for those drivers, or can the page itself be enough of a source? TheChrisD Rants • Edits 03:07, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

The IndyCar.com list is somewhat outdated and not a reliable source during the off-season. For example, the #96 team no longer exists. We are only listing team and driver combinations that have been formally announced by their teams for the 2009 season. -Drdisque (talk) 03:32, 1 February 2009 (UTC)


 * What about the latest (at this time) video in the Indycar.com video player? They specifically show Graham Rahal will be in the #06. TheChrisD Rants • Edits 10:24, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I have my doubts on the usefulness of IndyCar's web site as source. It seems a very slowly/poorly updated site if you ask me.  I doubt for a start that NHL Racing will be using teh exact same numbers as last year repleat with the leading ) to denote an incoming Champcar team...--Amedeo Felix (talk) 10:47, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Look at this - Official Honda Indy Car site--Amedeo Felix (talk) 01:19, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * That page is also not actively updated to reflect drivers that have left teams. For example, Buddy Rice and Milka Duno have clearly left Dreyer & Reinbold. -Drdisque (talk) 13:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Clearly? Well given that none of these US racing sites seem to get updated more than once a year by the looks of things... (they all seem to virtually abandon their various sites over the "off season")--Amedeo Felix (talk) 19:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Who deleted Milka and why???--Amedeo Félix (talk) 19:18, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

The IndyCar chassis is designated as the IR5
Per several Indycar sources with the most notable being Newman Haas Lanigan Racing via their official website, the current IndyCar chassis is the IR5. The IR5 is fundamentally the same chassis as the IR3 but with minor aerodynamic updates which were solidified for the 2005 IndyCar season. The IR5 has been fabricated by Panoz and Dallara.

http://www.newman-haas.com/cars.html

http://www.samhornish.com/team/index.cfm?cid=2645&subnavkey=carspecs&wide=true

(User: thebatsignal) 22:43, 19 February, 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thebatsignal (talk • contribs)

Doctorindy (talk) 14:26, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
 * A lot of dicussion about the chassis designation topic here....http://forums.autosport.com/printthread.php?threadid=81482

That forum link is speculative in nature. The official website from IndyCar's Newman Haas Lanigan Racing and also IndyCar veteran Sam Hornish Jr. clearly identify the current IndyCar Dallara chassis as the IR5.

--Thebatsignal (talk) 05:39, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Roger Yasukawa is listed incorrectly and should be moved to the part-time entries listing.
Roger Yasukawa (Dreyer & Reinbold) has officially announced he is confirmed at Motegi only. Yasukawa also verbalized interest in racing at Indianapolis, but Yasukawa should be moved regardless to the part-time entries section based upon confirmed information.

(User: thebatsignal) 17:44, 19 March, 2009 (UTC)
 * The Dreyer & Reinbold team participates full-time. In the past, we have all the entries from teams who have a full-time component in the full-time section. Please see 2008 IndyCar Series season. -Drdisque (talk) 01:22, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Race summary box
I suggest reducing the race summary box to the TOP THREE. Posting the top 5, or top 10 as tossed around in the past seems excessive if there are going to be individual race "Report" pages. The top three represents...dare I say...the podium finishers. Anyone who wants to see the rest of the finishers can check the race report. In addition, it allows for a slightly shorter page by the end of the year, and less work for editors.

Doctorindy (talk) 15:24, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I disagree. I feel that the number of points earned by the top five is notable and seeing the gap among the top five is useful. -Drdisque (talk) 15:57, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * As per User:Drdisque for my thoughts. Cs-wolves  (talk)  13:30, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Schedule summary
Are we really going to have the USELESS information in the top schedule box like "Fastest Lap" and "Most Laps Led" and "Pole Winner"....in late 2008, someone (probably from Europe) decided to add all that junk to the 'winners' summary table. All of the other info is already listed in the individual race summaries on down the page. I think the table should look like the one from 2007 here. People want a quick reference at the top to see who won. If they want to know more detailed info, they'll scroll down to look at the rest. I say show race winners only. Doctorindy (talk) 13:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Also is it necessary to have both "TRACK" and "LOCATION" columns when they are sometimes the same anyway. Again, the city of the race is already listed down further in the race details section. No need to have it listed in 10 different places. At the very least, a simple click of the link of the track would tell the reader what city the track is in. Doctorindy (talk) 13:07, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It was actually a Malaysian by the name of User:Gokul009 that introduced the extra details onto the page. A return to the 2007 style would suit me. Cs-wolves  (talk)  13:29, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree all those fields is far too much detail for what was initially meant to be a schedule. -Drdisque (talk) 18:17, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Our Malaysian friend is on the prowl again, adding a table to the 2007 season page, which has since been reverted. Keep alert guys. Cs-wolves  (talk)  18:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Three Letter Abbreviations
The three letter name abbreviations are an unnecessary addition to the page. Unlike F1, I've never seen such a system used in conjunction with IndyCar races. It also makes it harder for someone who just wants to look at the standings page to do so without having to go up to the driver chart just to find out what each abbreviation stands for. Thecrookedcap (talk) 17:56, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, it's totally asinine. I'm reverting. -Drdisque (talk) 18:54, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Good job, there's no reason to abbreviate.  Royal broil  01:20, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Car number colors
Is this really necessary? We're 4 races into the 2009 season and already some cars have changed paint schemes three times. Yet I notice the colors for some cars has changed as they change by race. Are the colors (and for that matter, list of sponsors) going to only list the most recent race, or the most popular color over the season, or what?

They serve no purpose and have no explanation in the article. The list of sponsors also suffers from recentism and should have all primary sponsors, or none. For instance, Danica's Indy 500 car has Boost Mobile, but now this season page makes no mention that her primary sponsor is actually Motorola. IIIVIX ( Talk ) 03:47, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I am in favor of removing car number colors completely, due to the strain on the eyes in simply reading some of them. To clarify what colors a car has or had, we should get photographs of them, or describe them, if older than color photographs, in a given section for such in the tables, like occurs with the 1911 and 1912 Indianapolis 500 pages. --Chr.K. (talk) 12:55, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Unused Indy 500 Entries
I removed the entries from the team and driver chart that went unused at the 500 (the Foyt #48, Fisher #68, the Roth entries). They're unlikely to get filled during the rest of the season, so they are superfluous. Thecrookedcap (talk) 02:23, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Initial names
For as long as I've been following sports, I have never seen initial names with a space between them (e.g. A. J. or T. J.). However, the Wikipedia articles for A.J. Foyt IV and E.J. Viso are as such (i'm sure that there are plenty others for each case). I understand why there is a space, but I don't see any other media or literature that actually has it spelled that way (even IndyCar.com, ESPN.go.com, or CBSSportsline.com doesn't spell those names with a space between them). I don't know if this has been discussed or not (I apologize if it has been already), but I believe that there should be no space between the initials. Let me know what you all think. Manningmbd 00:28, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Naming conventions (people) suggests that the space should exist, even though it doesn't officially say so. Often the media contradict what we here believe is the most encyclopedic way to write something (for example, the media often also excludes the comma in Dale Earnhardt Jr.). Perhaps you could ask on the talk page of that project-space page if the space is an official protocol and if it is to place it somewhere on that page and if it isn't to at least note that. -Drdisque (talk) 02:11, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the issue of a 'space' is an incredibly minor point to have any discussion at all about. But if you want to make is ssue about it, then putting in full stops is just as much of an issue as a space. AJ, A.J., A. J., take your pick, the meaning is surely obvious enough whichever variation is prefered. --Falcadore (talk) 03:00, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Page format change
Hey, I was wondering if you guys would be onboard for making some minor changes to the format of the page. It would basically involve making the schedule table JUST the race schedule (i.e. removing race winners), making a separate race winners table, and removing the Race Summaries section (as the race winners table has links to reports for each race). It's pretty similar to the way F1 season articles work, and I think it's a much more efficient layout. Also I've already made the results table, so if no one is opposed I can implement it pretty quickly. Eightball (talk) 20:55, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree to the parts OTHER than removing the race summaries. I feel that they are important to really understanding the season. -Drdisque (talk) 22:07, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * My thinking is that the race report articles serve exactly the same function as race summaries, just in a different location. That information will still be around, it just won't be on this page. Eightball (talk) 22:34, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with Drdisque. Manningmbd 20:24, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Problem is at 73k the article is almost double the recommended 40k limit prior to splitting an article. I think the over abundance of tabling will need to be cut down, especially since any form of season overview has not even been started, and with respect - the individual race summaries do represent multiple duplication of information and are the most easily cut and the most easily justifiable. Drdisque & Manningmbd - you may have to chose between the lesser of evils. --Falcadore (talk) 21:58, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, our cluttered results table is back from our friend again...and it's even got a new column this time..."Winning Owner." He hid it down halfway this time...like we wouldn't find it. To add about the page size...we went through this before, and the guidelines for page size are very loose. The characters that comprise tables, lists, and references (which we have MANY of each) do NOT particularly count against the page size regulations...see Article size. They are exempt. Take away the sytax characters for the tables alone and it would trim the size down drastically. Only readable prose is suppose to count.Doctorindy (talk) 13:29, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, but still the article significantly lacks a season overview. Many of the major motorsport articles lack the most important part of any encyclopedic article, a description of the racing season. They have a strong tendancy to attempt to tell the story with statistics, which to a non-motorsportingh person would be significantly off-putting. --Falcadore (talk) 14:39, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * A readable prose description of the season is difficult for this project, up to this point at least, because we'll probably be attacked, sooner or later, on Original Research grounds for putting it in terms we, the Wikipedian editors rather than certain...unique...journalists believe accurate. Also, perhaps just my view, but there is a difficulty in even finding overall season summaries for AOWR seasons, outside of statistical information, that doesn't involve the subjective loves or hatreds (usually in violent conflict, across website lines) of the authors involved. The AOWR War lives on, alive and well. --Chr.K. (talk) 13:01, 20 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I know this is an old discussion, but in reply to Falcadore's comment: why would a non-motorsports person ever need to read this page? First off, I flatly disagree that the page badly needs a season overview. Obviously it'd be nice to have a couple of paragraphs written at some point, but it wouldn't really add much value to the page. In reality 99% of the people reading this page are just going to want to know who won each race and who won the championship. If we get a massive controversy like F1 2007, then yeah, let's write an overview. But now? It's just not that important.

Still though, it's a motorsport article. Motorsport fans will read it. Why should we tailor it to non motorsport fans? Eightball (talk) 06:26, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The discussion is not actually that old. Why should it be tailored to a non-motorsport fan? Very simply, because Wikipedia is a non-motorsport encyclopedia. There are many dozens of specifically tailored encyclopedias, several of them are wikis themselves. Wikipedia is not. This is not a specialist publication, not should it strive to be.
 * Additionally, in response to Chr.K. above, there is always point of view. Understanble spoken language has yet to be invented that does not nuance itself one way or another. There is nothing wrong with wanting to make an piece of prose as objective as possible, but there is a trend I have observed here that right across the Motorsport Project we appear to be frightened of subjectivity, so much so that we substitute it with tables and data. I believe this to be immesely wrong. We should write how we feel, while holding to be objective within ourselves, and be prepared to defend our writing from this who believe us to be subjective, and compromise where we find out failings.


 * We will never, ever be perfect, and we should never allow the pursuit of perfection, to make us frightened to express any view. --Falcadore (talk) 06:40, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Improving Team Chart
The "half-blending" technique that was used to fit together the 3, 12, 23 and 43 cars based on driver availibility is cute but disorienting to the reader, especially on low resolutions. I've chosen to do away with it, and while I was at it included comment tags so you can pick out where each team starts and ends when editing. If you want to put the old blended arrangements back, here they are: 172.130.202.151 (talk) 05:39, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * At the time, I actually found the "cleaned up" way of displaying the table to be easier to understand and looked better. However, I only now noticed that it was almost instantly reverted several days ago. Whether that goes to show that either it doesn't make a difference what way it's laid out, or it's all such a blur that it's impossible to make out when merely browsing by it, I'm not sure.  TheChrisD  Rants • Edits 15:38, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Get rid of the bloody colors on the numbers while you're at it. IIIVIX  ( Talk ) 19:43, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

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