Talk:2010–2012 Algerian protests

page move and clean up
needs an update with AQIM reaction et al. Also move the page to 2010-2011 Algerian protests similar to Tunisia as both started before and are ongoing.(Lihaas (talk) 02:13, 15 January 2011 (UTC)).


 * So far we only have RS for protests starting 29 December. If the Algerian protests continue for a long time, e.g. many weeks, then calling them 2010-2011 sounds to me a little big pedantic. WP:NAME has criteria of brevity and simplicity, not just disambiguity and precision.
 * On the other hand, calling them "riots" sounds a bit WP:WEASELly to me. It seems rather undisputed that these are political protests on issues of basic human rights: housing and food.
 * Can someone find some RS's (and add the material to the article) for a "part" of these protests extending a bit earlier than 2010-12-29 ? In that case, we could uncontroversially move to 2010–2011 Algerian protests. Boud (talk) 22:01, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

It's not clear that these are "ongoing" in any meaningful sense. There were nearly a hundred local protests/riots reported last year, and plenty more the year before, but the particular batch started by the food price rises stands out for rapidly spreading to all parts of the country. The self-immolators and the RCD, and no doubt others, are trying to get these protests or something like them going again, but it's not clear yet whether they will succeed; certainly it doesn't look that way so far. - EmeutesAlgerie (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:07, 21 January 2011 (UTC).

Specifically, what connection is there between the highly localised Algiers housing riots in December (or any of several other protests over specific local issues in that month) and the nationwide riots that erupted in January? There should certainly be a more general article on protests in Algeria too, but that wouldn't start in 2010 - more like 2002 or so... - EmeutesAlgerie (talk) 17:17, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Since you sound like you know more than other editors of this article, please go ahead and make suggestions. A more general article would/will/may require convincing the dominant demographic component of en.wikipedians that Algerian political protests since 2002 are WP:NOTABLE, including doing the work of finding sources, but maybe the fact that the Western media and online Western cybercitizens have suddenly discovered that North Africans want their political, social, cultural and economic rights like people elsewhere and are willing to organise politically to demand those rights makes this a good moment for when this type of knowledge will be considered Notable. Non-English language sources are allowed when English ones are difficult to find.


 * You sound like you're arguing against 2010–2011 Algerian protests on the grounds that the Algiers December housing protests don't have an obvious link to the January protests. In that case, do you (or anyone else) have any arguments against shifting from 2011 Algerian riots to 2011 Algerian protests as a somewhat more NPOV name? Human rights protests in countries all around the world, including just about every "Western democracy", have been attacked by police with various levels of physical violence during the past decade. The bias problem that i seem to recall a statistical analysis showing that in the Western mainstream media, street protests in non-Western countries generally get called "riots" (i.e. irrational violence by protestors), while protests in Western countries generally do not get called riots (even if the reports tend to systematically claim that protestors were violent and police used necessary restraint against them). The racist undertone is that Westerners have political thoughts and organise in social groups and networks - they "protest" - while non-Westerners just have irrational anger and use violence rather than their minds - they "riot". It's a bit like "freedom fighters" vs "terrorists".


 * Just to make things clear for people not reading through my long paragraph, the question is:


 * Does anyone oppose a name change of this page to 2011 Algerian protests? Boud (talk) 22:54, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Creating a more general page such as Algerian protests since 2002 is independent of this question - that page would require a lot of work to get started. And some NPOV/RS reason for why it should start in 2002 would be needed. The Algerian_legislative_election,_2002? Boud (talk) 22:54, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Now that the page includes the self-immolations and the RCD march, I think a name change to 2011 Algerian protests would definitely be appropriate. However, in the Algerian context there is a useful distinction to be made between riots (acephalous, few or no explicitly political slogans, often feature attacks on property or government buildings) and demonstrations (organised by political groups, political slogans, no violence or destruction); riots are generally treated relatively lightly by the government and are often followed by attempts to redress particular material problems, whereas demonstrations are consistently stomped on and treated uncompromisingly. - EmeutesAlgerie (talk) 14:32, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
 * if youre suggesting demonstrations instead of protests i wouldnt oppose. the albanian events are called "opposition demonstrations" and its not a bad idea.Lihaas (talk) 21:59, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

hints for references
Most references so far seem to be in a very brief form. Here are some templates that you can copy/paste/modify. Use WebCite for websites suspected of having unstable pages (e.g. that may become unavailable to non-subscribers, may be updated in a way that removes the sourced information, news organisations or websites may change URLs or go offline, etc.). More info: Template messages/Sources of articles/Generic citations. Boud (talk) 23:18, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
 * - more info: Template:cite news
 * - more info: Template:cite web
 * - more info: Template:cite document (redirects to cite journal, but AFAIK, it's OK for "serious" documents that are not journals

More hints for references
Heroeswithmetaphors (talk) 21:04, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Headings
Thanks for the ref fixes! Not so sure about the heading changes though: so far I've been organising this article chronologically, not topically, and the headings are simply intended to give a rough idea of what was mainly going on during a given week. Some topics emerge naturally in this way; others may not be apparent except in retrospect. - EmeutesAlgerie (talk) 22:04, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

page move
the protests started before 2011 (see the tunisian page), so i propose a similar mve.(Lihaas (talk) 00:40, 26 January 2011 (UTC)).
 * no opposition for a while then, im moving it.(Lihaas (talk) 11:15, 30 January 2011 (UTC)).

As I already pointed out above and as is clear from the article's text, this isn't really true. Protests like the December ones have been routine for years, not just in December and not just in 2010. Either this article should start in the mid-2000s, or it should start with the obvious turning point: the first nationwide demonstrations since the early 1990s, which began in January. There is absolutely no point in making it start with a random housing protest in December having no known connection to the food price protests. - EmeutesAlgerie (talk) 23:39, 30 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Unless someone has a counterargument, perhaps this can be moved back? - EmeutesAlgerie (talk) 00:12, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Because those riots were ongoing to the arab world protests taht were started off by bouazizi in tunisia. in all cases protests have had different issues in different place, they havent been uniform across the board.Lihaas (talk) 15:29, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Chronology
There's no "chicken or egg" problem here. The food riots preceded all of the self-immolations. - EmeutesAlgerie (talk) 00:03, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * alright, i was date confused over the whole affair across states, (and that elsewhere the order woyuld be different ;))Lihaas (talk) 15:30, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Algiers central square
is it May First Square, May the First Square or Martyrs Square? all 3 have come iup at some point.Lihaas (talk) 14:42, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

2011 february protest in Place du 1er Mai, Algiers
The protests in 2011 february are in Place du 1er Mai (May1 square), in a similar way to tahrir square protests in Egypt (better would be in the Place des Martyrs, Algiers), near the sea and out of police. --147.84.132.44 (talk) 14:11, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Goals
This protests page lacks stated Goals. We should add them. --Smart30 (talk) 06:12, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Ongoing?
Is it fair to say they're no longer 'ongoing'? From all over the news I gather not much has happened for a while. Harsimaja (talk) 03:55, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Caveat: Article is still out of date
I've updated the article with some very recent protests, but there's a huge gap between last April and now in which I'm sure some stuff happened. If I'd realized nobody was updating this, I'd have tried to do it myself, but now there's a huge gap. I'll try to fill it gradually, but Wikipedia isn't my life and I'm a lazy-ass (I've been here for seven years, three of which I logged in most of the time, and in that time I've made less than 1000 edits, and maybe a hundred more in the four years I never logged in). So if anybody else can do that, please do. And in the meantime, keep in mind that while this article has information on the present, it's still not up to date. Regards, --Quintucket (talk) 02:33, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

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