Talk:2011 Bahraini uprising/Archive 1

March 14 Section and Casualties
Can someone please fix "[...] as the request of the Bahraini government..." in the March 14 section? Also, is a description like "Close range shot by a shotgun that shattered his head" really necessary? Couldn't something less descriptive be used? Such as "Shotgun wound to the head"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.181.64.233 (talk) 02:52, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Government POV =
This article should include a section which details the Bahraini governments POV regarding the protests. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.73.66.61 (talk) 10:26, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

March 13
I would like if someone would add that pro-government thugs have begun attacking villages at around 6:00PM GMT and that resulted in many neighborhoods to create neighborhood watches and set up roadblocks to prevent arrival of pro-government thugs, cities or villages that were attacked include: 1. Isa Town 2. Old Manama 3. Tubli 4. Jidali 5. Aali 6. Busaiteen 7. Nuwaidrat 8 Sanabis When riot police attacked the Pearl Roundabout, Protesters sat down and resisted from leaving and shouted "peaceful,peaceful" and no tents were removed from Pearl Square. Calicoosat (talk) 08:47, 14 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll add it, If you give me a reliable source (see WP:RS) - ArnoldPlaton (talk) 16:21, 15 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I interviewed many people the day after and they confirmed that there were road blocks set up by protesters. Tents that have been put up next to the road have been removed after the Saudi forces have entered Bahrain to prepare against the expected raid. Calicoosat (talk) 12:49, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Deaths
The article is reporting 6 deaths over the entire length of the protests, however Al-Jazeera is reporting (at least how I understand it) 6 deaths from the crackdown last night on top of the two deaths earlier in the week. So wouldn't that be 8 killed? --Kuzwa (talk) 16:35, 17 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Also the 20+ injured figure no longer seems appropriate. --Kuzwa (talk) 16:41, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

@Kuzwa .. the official number deaths of as of 21 February is 7 published today by the local newspaper Al-Wasat, a reference in Arabic has been added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emjay911 (talk • contribs) 13:09, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I updated the total death count as of this weekend. As one would expect, the total varies so I reported both Reuters (7 civilians and 4 police) and Jadaliyya (20, but appears to be only civilians). I'm not familiar with the latter, but it appears to be the source for the table currently being used. (Which should probably be updated by someone with more time than I have right now - just follow the link.) Flatterworld (talk) 15:57, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The Iranian News Channel Press TV gives the number of dead as 24. My opinion is that there is no accurate figure. Joyson Noel  Holla at me!  17:18, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Pearl Square
The naming of the Pearl Square article is under discussion, see Talk:Pearl Monument.

64.229.100.61 (talk) 22:48, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

GCC stand
http://mg.co.za/article/2011-02-18-gulf-will-oppose-bahrain-regime-change/

I think it should be added to the article.--Edgar (talk) 10:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

A note
If anyone was wondering about the number of deaths... Bahrain has 1 million inhabitants, and 10 people died this week. That would count like 800 killed in Egypt that has 80 million--78.2.46.222 (talk) 09:44, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Fortunately, unfortunately, we don't count deaths as a percentage of total persons. To darkly quote the great Howard Stern, a kill is a kill is a kill.  It's not any less or more significant because of the number of other people.  I can possibly see a role for a %, but only if the numbers rose significantly, which hopefully won't even come close to happening.  Thanks for trying to add context though. Ocaasi (talk) 17:52, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Bahrain Violence ( Destruction by Shiaa )
What is happening in Bahrain is done by proIranian, proHezbbulla shiaa activists and not the whole Bahraini population.Their aim is to change Bahrain to another Republic of Iran with the support of Iran and Hizbbulla in Lebanon.These activists ( if i may say terrorists ) have been destroying the country for more than 20 years. They have bloody history of killing (in cool blood) labors from India and pakistan ( Burned to Death ), you can check that by clicking on google and search about the history of violence in Bahrain. They attacked marathon runners by stones. They burned schools, houses,banks,ATM machines,electrecity power stations,telephone boxes and burned the roads plus many many other things.They killed policemen on duties, attacked their houses,burned their private cars. They made home-made bombs like molotofs, gas clynder explosin bombs, fire arms arrows. They are trying to destroy the infrastructure of Bahrain. All of these shiaa gorella were trained in Iran and in Lebanon by Hezbbulla. The bahraini shiaa leaders have regular meeting with the previously mentioned terrorits (country and organization).Till today the want an "Ayatulla" republic in Bahrain. They are not talking about us ( the majority of Bahraini people- loyal shiaa and sunni)and they do not represent us as majority. Most what is sent by the them to the media is not true and fabricted and with magical touchs of photoshope they created their photos and video which most of them cheap actions. I love my country and most Bahraini and none-Bahraini do not like what the proIranian proHezbbulla doing in Bahrain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.22.18.98 (talk) 18:42, 19 February 2011 (UTC)


 * This is not a political discussion forum. This talk page is for discussing changes to the article. Changes should be supported by credible sources. There are a wide variety of political forums on the internet at which the general issue may be discussed. Wikipedia talk pages are for discussing sourced changes to the article, not persuasive speeches. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.65.34.131 (talk) 14:15, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Sadly, that's what Wikipedia is becoming. Agendas posing as encyclopedic articles. --Jazzcat23 (talk) 12:21, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

I could not agree more with Jazzcat23. Because of an article like this one I am beginning to lose faith in the credibility of wikipedia. The authors are obviously portraying only one side of the story and omitting any content that does not fit their storyline. I never thought that articles could be so subjective. i feel disgusted that I pay to support wikipedia and this probably the first thing I will stop doing. The last thing I want to be doing is supporting political or religious fanatics in writing history the way they see it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.73.56.234 (talk) 13:50, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Casualties table and in infobox
Hi. Please update the casualties table containing all recent additions. The only reason I did not update this myself is because I was not sure whether the media published the name of the two-year-old girl whose bullet-ridden body was found. Do not reduce the toll in infobox to 7 simply because the table only lists seven names! Thanks. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 00:39, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * This is a link that updates the protest of Friday February 24, it says " In Bahrain, pro-democracy demonstrations on a scale that appeared to dwarf the largest ever seen in the tiny Persian Gulf nation blocked miles of downtown roads and highways in Manama, the capital. The crowds overflowed from Pearl Square in the center of the city for the second time in a week, but the government once again allowed the demonstration to proceed.


 * Government forces had cracked down brutally last week, killing at least seven, but backed down under intense pressure from the United States. Since then, the country appears to be locked in a battle of wills between mostly Shiite protesters and their Sunni monarch. Shiites are a majority in Bahrain, a United States ally, and they say they have long faced discrimination from the country’s minority Sunni elite.


 * In a shift, it was the country’s Shiite religious leaders who called for people to take to the streets Friday, rather than the political opposition. Although some of the chants and symbols Friday had a religious cast, protesters’ demands remained the same — emphasizing a nonsectarian call for democracy and the downfall of the government.


 * “We are winners, and victory comes from God,” protesters chanted in Manama.


 * A few of the protesters carried black flags — a Shiite mourning symbol — but they appeared in a vast sea of red and white, the colors of Bahrain.


 * Crowds stretched two miles to the Bahrain Mall, east of Pearl Square, and about another two miles southwest of the square to the Salmaniya Medical Complex, which has treated wounded protesters and been a focal point of demonstrations.". This is the link http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/26/world/middleeast/26unrest.html?ref=world


 * The link its from The New York Times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.244.243.106 (talk) 18:14, 25 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The source says seven but that does not mean it included all the casualties or that other fatalities have not occurred. It is relatively common practice here to post a sum of the numbers from various sources as the total for the infobox, and including the 2-year-old in the table lower down would mean a toll of at last eight. ~ A H  1 (TCU) 00:40, 26 February 2011 (UTC)


 * It is seven, first it was published twice by a major local newspaper Al-Wasat on the 21 and 26 Feb and secondly as myself (i know not a reliabe source) a resident of Bahrain I know the names of all which was also published. Regarding the two yr old girl, this is just a lie. In addtition to the already seven killed, there are two in very critical condition, so the fatalities may increase in the upcoming days and weeks

Tenses
The tenses are inconsistent within paragraphs in some sections. Should these be corrected? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.55.204.205 (talk) 00:21, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Google Maps blocked?
Here you can see a series of images from Google Maps that shows the large palaces of the elite of Bahrain. The article says that these images spread among protesters and that Google Maps is now blocked. Maybe this fits into the article? -- JakobVoss (talk) 23:52, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅Lihaas (talk) 11:00, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Timeline condense
Wouldn't the article look better if the timeline is condensed somehow? It now has an entry for every single day, although some entries feature 1 or 2 short sentences. Maybe the section could be condensed into weekly periods. For example, 1-3 March is condensed into a single entry - ArnoldPlaton (talk) 18:17, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Trying to force Government view of the protests
There are many attempts trying to force the government's view of the protests by saying anti-government protesters are violent and giving different not confirmed sources for different accounts and by always dragging in Iran and saying anti-government protesters paid by Iran!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emjay911 (talk • contribs) 05:10, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * You mean the edits made by user:Tapvr ? I've requested the page be temporarily semiprotected in case it continues The request has been denied. Guess we'll have to be vigilent and and revert any unsourced edits - ArnoldPlaton (talk) 20:35, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I just removed a lot of POV edits, including a lot by you know who. Czolgolz (talk) 04:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Foreign Invasion
The Saudi invasion is a new phase in the conflict, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.Ericl (talk) 14:13, 14 March 2011 (UTC)


 * From what I've read there are three factions within the opposition, only one of which is actively negotiating with the government. Also there are allegations that Iran is supporting the opposition from sources like Stratfor. With the intervention of the Gulf Cooperation Council this article might need to have sides included.--Profitoftruth85 (talk) 20:38, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Infobox which best summarizes article
The purpose of an infobox is to accurately summarize an article so the reader doesn't have to read thru the whole article to get the main facts.

Take a look at these three version of the article (1), (2), (3). Which format best summarizes the content of the article for the readers? Note that 1 & 3 are similar, but 3 removes the "Lead figures" section. ~ Justin Ormont (talk) 17:05, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

There are many more variants which can and do exist. Here are a few. Which format best summarizes the content of the article for the readers?


 * The first one is obviously the best one. It should be organized as Opposition and underneath it the 3 different main opposition factions and the other side should have the other arab countries under Gulf Cooperation Council. It shouldn't say "leading figures though, it should say "belligerents" or something that shows they are contesting each other--Profitoftruth85 (talk) 17:22, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * the third is the best, expanside and not pov like the first.Lihaas (talk) 10:51, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Explain why you think it is pov, its not enough to simply state it. The infobox shows is for a civil conflict and not a war so it's not clear why you think it pov. this version of the infobox clearly shows the different sides.--Profitoftruth85 (talk) 16:27, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Attacks on South Asians
Why doesn't this article mention the reprisal attacks by Shia miscreants on Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi expatriates? I'm not stating that this article should give over-emphasis on these attacks, but they do deserve mention. These attacks were racist and xenophobic in nature, and are obviously connected to the civil unrest going on right now. Joyson Noel Holla at me!  13:05, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * This article does not even mention the number of Bahraini policemen killed by the Shia protestors. Joyson Noel  Holla at me!  13:16, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Please provide links to reliable sources and I'm sure editors will be happy to include it. Veriss (talk) 04:52, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Here are a few: Joyson Noel Holla at me!  05:45, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * http://news.google.com/news/story?q=Bahrain+Pakistanis&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=d0RLbe3kEmnDpHMFUD3WSFjy1QILM&hl=en&ei=H-SGTZylNJC1hAe7lKC_BA&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&resnum=3&ved=0CDIQqgIwAg&vanilla=0
 * http://tribune.com.pk/story/135749/the-revolutions-underbelly-harrowing-tale-of-pakistani-policemen-lynched-in-bahrain-front-page/
 * http://news.google.com/news/story?q=Bahrain+Pakistanis&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=d0RLbe3kEmnDpHMFUD3WSFjy1QILM&hl=en&ei=H-SGTZylNJC1hAe7lKC_BA&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&resnum=3&ved=0CDIQqgIwAg&vanilla=0
 * http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=178199
 * http://arabnews.com/middleeast/article321724.ece
 * http://tribune.com.pk/story/133526/pakistani-workers-seek-cover-amid-bahrain-turmoil/
 * You are an experienced editor, feel free to insert them where you feel they are most useful. I will try to help you with NPOV wording if you like.  Sincerely, Veriss (talk) 05:54, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll refrain from doing so, as i don't trust myself to be NOPV and objective enough to edit this article. As an expatriate residing in Bahrain, i have strong feelings about this subject. As such, i leave it to the regular editors to use these references. Joyson Noel  Holla at me!  14:36, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

clarification needed in a 16-17 March sentence
Someone put this in the 16-17 March section, from an Arabic source:
 * "Al Arabiya showed a video of medics allegedly aligned with the protesters hitting ethnic Indian workers after being hospitalised for being attacked by protesters."

This needs to be written less ambiguously by someone who understands the source text properly (the word order in Arabic is probably not the same as in English): Boud (talk) 16:44, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Who were hitting the Indian workers: the medics or the protesters?
 * Who were hospitalised: the medics or the protesters or the Indian workers?
 * Who were attacked by protesters: the medics or the Indian workers?


 * Clarification of my statement: if this is a literal translation or just a paraphrase from the Arabic, then even after removing the ambiguity, it should be in quotes. Boud (talk) 20:49, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I just used Google Chrome's built in translator to translate the page. It appears an indian worker in an ambulance was hit by a doctor and thrown into a crowd of protestors. They also say observers are calling it a form of ethnic cleansing and an attempt to derail the economy as Bahrain depends on immigrant workers for a lot of its jobs.--Profitoftruth85 (talk) 22:25, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry for that hasty translation. I will try to fix it.  R a f y  talk 10:34, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

completely peaceful protests ??? why no one mentione the Number of police killed by protesters?
I don't understand. why no one mentione the Number of police killed by protesters?? I'm sorry but I was thinking Wikipedia is an independent Encyclopedia ?? why there are to many writers Backing the protesters .with no mention of crimes happened in Bahrain by them ? Killing police, attacking schools , universities and hospitals ,kidnapping and killing Asian workers ??

like this one: (so violent and aggressive content) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkWV0NNBmlg

My English isn't good so I could not edit the article I used to read the English version of Wikipedia to get the true face of every thing in the world But apparently even Wikipedia isn't independent enough thank you and I hope some on will fix this article to make it more truthful 91.143.58.1 (talk) 04:41, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * This sketchy youtube video shows an SUV running over something that looks like a person. While no doubt police have died in the clashes, you'll need a much more reliable source. Czolgolz (talk) 05:18, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Here is an article that made it to headlines in Al Arabiya. While some protesters might have been peaceful others resorted to killing policemen and attacking foreign workers as a mean of weakening the state.  R a f y  talk 10:33, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * This is the English Wikipedia so the reliable sources need to be in English or with reliable translations. Please provide that and we will be happy to include it.  Sincerely, Veriss (talk) 04:50, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Videos don't need translation .and about "alarabiya" article I'll be happy to translate it. If I'm reliable enough. I'll just need some grammar fixing. are you ready ? to help me ? @ the person who asking about the video for protesters kidnapping Asian workers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEQKO97skqA 91.143.58.1 (talk) 07:30, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually sources are preferred but not required to be in English. See WP:NOENG. --  R a f y  talk 14:09, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Crippled Article
This article is handicapped because it fails to explain exactly what the protests are about, does not document or provide links to historical excesses or failures by the current government and fails to describe the opposing factions or their leaders. This article wanders lost simply regurgitating mass media coverage until it is given some kind of direction. Sincerely, Veriss (talk) 05:14, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

GCC flagicon
An editor is insisting that the Template:flagicon for the GCC isn't free and is repeatedly removing it from the article. With respect, that's a bizarre reason to remove the flag. It's at Template:Country_data_GCC and evidently there's no problem with it being on display there. It follows that there should be no problem to display the flag anywhere on Wikipedia.—Biosketch (talk) 13:47, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

This is your home
That is apparently what Foreign Minister Shaikh Khalid bin Ahmed Al Khalifa has told the expatriate community at the Bahrain Keraleeya Samajam (BKS). He further gave empty promises of protection to the community yesterday - the same day when two Pakistani construction workers were butchered by sword wielding Shia hooligans in my area (Salmabad), let alone the others who were attacked and killed that day. Feel free to use these links! Joyson Noel Holla at me!  12:36, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=302611
 * http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=302634

16-17 march
Calling the Peninsula Shield a Saudi/Foreign invasion is totally wrong. first of all the Peninsula shield is a military force formed by ALL the six GCC nations to help in protecting the GCC countries from any threat.The force is regulated by clear laws,something like Article 5 of the NATO Charter.The Bahraini goverment called upon this force to help in protecting vital spots ONLY. — Preceding unsigned comment added by YAGthis (talk • contribs) 21:16, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

edit request (4 april 2011)
please add template "" to top of "references" section (i.e., just below section header). quite a few URLS. thanks.--96.232.126.111 (talk) 23:47, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Done: I added it to the top instead because I was having some problems adding it to where you wanted it. Crazymonkey1123 (Jacob) (Shout!) 04:17, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Bias article
It is so sad to know that even a forum like Wikipedia is supporting traitors. The whole article is so biased. I cant find any neutrality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alwasif (talk • contribs) 00:36, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Complete Bias and Distortion of Facts
I am amazed by the amount of hate the writer has against Sunnis and the Bahraini government and i'm truly shocked by the distortion of facts and the concealment of any terrorist/vandalism act by the protesters such as burning police cars, beating police officers ( sometimes to death )-also running them down by cars- .Not to mention blocking main streets , stopping vehicles and beating the passengers after destroying the vehicle itself and kidnapping of Pakistani/Bengali/Indians ... etc who would eventually be murdered. Yes I agree with 81.22.18.98 and  Alwasif they said more than I could to reveal the deception. And " Foreign Invasion" ?! GCC forces are not from some "Foreign" land that is trying to make Bahrain another part of it - much like one well known country does- Any one who does not know the truth about this will be fooled by this article and the Significant amount of bias in it. Enough talking and lets start with solid facts :

The truth about the Barbaric protests  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPkcuKgXOzQ Destruction of main streets of Bahrain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dx9lLlsJFo&feature=related Collection of videos                   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGzykzrkjv4

And I didn't even start to look deep into it. Finally, i'm sorry for taking too long but i had to share the truth with other Wikipedia readers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NTSB2 (talk • contribs) 16:31, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Official Amnesty International Report
I urge you to read the official Amnesty International report on the Bahraini protests: Amnesty International Bahrain

Dms77 (talk) 13:08, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * And what about the human rights of those Bahraini Sunnis and South Asian expatriates in Salmaniya hospital who were removed from their hospital beds, refused medical treatment and worse, spat at, physically abused and threatened with murder, by the very same Shia doctors and nurses who were supposed to look after them? People died because of being refused medical treatment. What about their human rights? Whatever the grievances may be, what sort of unprincipled loons occupy a hospital where people are meant to be treated, in order to make a political point? Joyson Noel  Holla at me!  13:33, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Not a forum
If you have reliable sources for pieces of information (e.g. "Bahraini Sunnis and South Asian expatriates in Salmaniya hospital who were ..."), then please learn how to use inline references (e.g. copy/paste the raw text to a text editor, save it on your local computer, and use the same patterns already used for references) and WP:NPOV and contribute in editing the article. Amnesty International reports are generally accepted as WP:RS, so they can be used too.

Please also assume good faith. Editing an article and integrating information from different sources requires care and time. There is no secret Chief Editor here who will secretly decide which of your edits can be accepted or not. Try the "history" button to see who edited what and when.

But wikipedia is not a forum. Boud (talk) 00:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I am a veteran editor and am not disputing the Amnesty International reports. So, what do your suggestions about RS, Good Faith and NPOV have to do in this context? You have a point with WP:FORUM, however. So, thanks for reminding me! Joyson Noel  Holla at me!  06:00, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe Boud's argument is that you are alleging bias on the part of the many authors and editors of this article, but you are not providing WP:RS to support your accusations that they are making things up in order to portray the events in a given light, or to support your side of the story. If you can identify specific parts of this article that are not verifiable, or contribute reliable sources that support facts not presently included, please either change the article or (perhaps preferably, in the case of the former) bring them to our attention on the Talk page. Thanks and hope we can suss this out. -Kudzu1 (talk) 12:57, 5 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the clarification - it did sound like you were disputing the Amnesty reports, but you have clarified now. WP:GOODFAITH was directed more to the people writing at the beginning of this section. As for your specific response, i don't see any information on your claims in the article (though the article is long - i may have missed it). If you do have WP:RS for them, then the question is where would be the appropriate place to put them? in the timeline or in a section like ==Claims of human rights abuses by protestors== ? AFAIK, they would be "abuses" rather than "violations", because the protestors do not constitute a governmental body that has committed itself to international human rights instruments. Then maybe claims of human rights violations by the government and the Peninsula Shield Force could be summarised from the timeline and put as a subsection in the "Casualties" section? Boud (talk) 12:58, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I am not alleging bias on the part of anyone. I was just responding to this anon IP. I live in Bahrain. I've seen images and read reports about it in GDN (pro-government newspaper, i know!) and seen video clips about it in BTV. I personal know people working for the Ministry of Interior who state that the doctors and protestors abused South Asian patients. They even held a police officer hostage there and cut off his fingers. I have chosen not to add info and use these links, because i do not wish to get caught up in time consuming disputes and edit wars. Joyson Noel  Holla at me!  18:34, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * If you're not willing to provide sources, you can't blame us for not including this information. I would also encourage you to try to get your news from other sources as well as from pro-government outlets, because as we've continually seen in Bahrain, Syria, Libya, and Egypt, both pro-government and pro-opposition news sources tend to contain half-truths and outright distortions. -Kudzu1 (talk) 01:49, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Please read the concerned comment carefully. I didn't blame anyone. I repeat, my comment was addressed to the anon IP. I did it as i was irritated at his comment. It's my mistake. I shall not do so again. Joyson Noel  Holla at me!  08:14, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Deaths table
Could we make the table be colapsable (open on demand)? I feel it takes up an unjustified amount of (visual) space in the article. - ArnoldPlaton (talk) 20:59, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Are protests actually ongoing?
Past the GCC intervention, both media and this article focus on "mopping-up" efforts by the Bahraini government to punish and prosecute activists after successfully suppressing protests. Is a partial rewrite in order? Have these protests officially failed? -Kudzu1 (talk) 03:04, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, these are still going on (albeit at a small scale), and arrests are still taking place. In my opinion, it is not wise to state that these protests have failed, until these stop completely. Joyson Noel  Holla at me!  06:05, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Good to know. It would be good to see these ongoing events discussed in the article. -Kudzu1 (talk) 08:05, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The only news channel that i'm aware of which makes this claim is Press TV. I'm not completely certain about it.  Joyson Noel  Holla at me!  08:54, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

protests or uprising?

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Marcus  Qwertyus   18:14, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

The fact that the protests/uprising have/has been mostly crushed with the help of the Peninsula Shield Force - at least for the moment - does not change the nature of the events. "Uprising" does not necessarily mean "successful uprising". We now have 2011 Syrian uprising even though AFAIK there has not been any continuous, multi-week occupation of a major physical space in the capital city - Damascus - while the occupation of Pearl Roundabout in Manama lasted more or less from mid-February to mid-March. In proportion to the populations of Syria and Bahrain, i suspect that the numbers of protestors were similar. Unless someone has a counterargument, probably we should think of a move request to 2011 Bahraini uprising. Boud (talk) 23:25, 3 May 2011 (UTC)


 * What happened in Bahrain is comparable to the uprisings we saw in Egypt (pre-revolution) and Libya (pre-civil war), and comparable to the situation in Syria as well. As User:Boud said above, sections of Manama were virtually occupied by protesters who refused to take orders from the government and resisted security forces both peacefully and violently for about a month. The uprising may have been suppressed before it could gather the strength to bring down the government, but not all uprisings blossom into revolutions. I think the scope of these protests and the real threat they posed to the government went beyond mere protests - they effectively took large swaths of the capital city of a small island country out of the hands of the government, just as Egyptians took control of Tahrir Square and other major places in Egypt for an extended period of time, just as Syrians took control of Deraa and Douma and ignored the government's orders before the government sent in tanks and snipers to wrest control of the districts by force (and they continue to rise up across the country), just as Libyans cut off Benghazi, Bayda, Tobruk, Misurata, and Zawiyah from the control of the government. Bahrain is far more an uprising than it is "protests" of the sort that have pestered the governments of Iraq, Armenia, Morocco, Sudan, and Iran. Bahrainis did not merely call for the government to relinquish its authority, they actively denied the government its authority for an prolonged amount of time. WP:RS agree with me: Reuters, The Independent, Al Arabiya (not including Qaradawi's quotes, The Weekly Standard, Agence France-Presse. -Kudzu1 (talk) 02:02, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Support - For the above reasons given by User:Boud and User:Kudzu1 and also for the reasons User:Twelvechairs gave in support of classifying Bahrain similarly to Yemen and Syria when discussing his map on the 2010-2011 MENA Protests page. Whether the events were successful or suppressed has no bearing on whether they should be classified as an uprising. WP:RS agrees. DonT15 (talk) 17:18, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

OK, i'm starting a formal move request. Boud (talk) 07:40, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

2011 Bahraini protests → 2011 Bahraini uprising – The occupation of Pearl Roundabout in Manama lasted more or less from mid-February to mid-March, and quoting User:Kudzu1, "Bahrainis did not merely call for the government to relinquish its authority, they actively denied the government its authority for a prolonged amount of time, WP:RS agree ... Reuters, The Independent, Al Arabiya (not including Qaradawi's quotes, The Weekly Standard, Agence France-Presse" Boud (talk) 07:40, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No need, page isn't protected and I'd consider this an uncontroversial move request. It's done with consensus. -Kudzu1 (talk) 08:46, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Totally messed up and biased article
This article is so totally biased and one-sided. Probably written by a protestor. There are a lot of facts conveniently missed out, just to show a single side of things. For anyone seeking to understand the real situation of what happened in Bahrain, unfortnately Wikipedia is far from an accurate source of information. 78.100.245.17 (talk) 03:07, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
 * If you can present specifics of the problems you claim exist with this article, supporting your argument with WP:RS, I think we'd be happy to work with you on this bias issue you perceive. The last thing we want is to have verifiable and supportable facts left out of an encyclopedic article. Cheers. -Kudzu1 (talk) 04:10, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

This NPOV dispute was tagged in this edit [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2011_Bahraini_uprising&diff=427343884&oldid=427289357 ] by IP user 78.100.245.17 on 4 May 2011. The explanation is presumably the statement above. To the user of IP number 78.100.245.17: quoting from NPOVD, please "clearly and exactly explain which part of the article does not seem to have a NPOV and why. Make some suggestions as to how one can improve the article. Be active and bold in improving the article." As Kudzu said, find some reliable sources supporting the pieces of information that you believe are missing from the article, and integreate them to the article, following the pattern of using references used by other editors. You can then check out the "history" of edits to the page by clicking on a tab that says something like "view history" at the top of the article and find out if someone has further modified your edits. You can come back here to the talk page in case there are editorial disagreements.

We cannot respond to your concerns unless you are more specific - and preferably help in editing. Boud (talk) 12:32, 5 May 2011 (UTC)


 * i'm about to remove the tag. The tag only has a meaning if editors are having difficulty agreeing on content and the disagreement is perceived by some editors as making the article POV in its present form. It's not meant to be a "drive-by" way of giving an opinion stating the perceived POV-ness of the article. It's a week since the tag was posted, and the IP user 78.100.245.17 hasn't made any specific proposals at all nor given any details of NPOV-related editorial disputes in which s/he was involved in this article and which need to be discussed and resolved.


 * Another way of putting it: while there are some people commenting on this talk page who judge the article to be insufficiently NPOV, they have only made vague comments, without describing any specific would-be ongoing editorial NPOV dispute. There is no ongoing NPOV dispute, so the non-existent dispute cannot be resolved. Boud (talk) 21:43, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Disappeared & Detained
This site contains numbers Disappeared & Detained is Continued to Bahrain Centre for Human Rights 88.201.1.30 (talk) 17:46, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

There is nothing called persian gulf !
first of all its ARABIAN GULF and there is nothing called persian gulf, it shows that the writer does not know anyhting about our country bahrain, what happend during the last few months was Unsuccessful attempt to steal the country by group of people how are loyal to Iran.

I hope that wikipedia admin will revise the information posted in the article to correct it, as it remind bahraini people of a hateful period of time, we all are working hard to overcome it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.201.1.30 (talk) 12:58, 9 May 2011 (UTC)


 * The term is disputed and Persian Gulf is used interchangeably with Arabian Gulf. They are two different names for the same body of water, and both are equally acceptable in international parlance.
 * As to your complaint with the article itself, there is no singular "writer" and all of the information in this article must be based on WP:RS or it will be deleted. If you have other sources you believe should be considered, please bring them to our attention. Cheers. -Kudzu1 (talk) 13:26, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The Persian Gulf is the official & historical name for that body of water. It has never been referred to as the Arabian Gulf in the West, and seems to be a modern Pan-Arab notion. The entire Gulf borders Persia, it is thus Persian, not "Arab". --Smart (talk) 14:20, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Human rights defenders Involvement in the 2011 Bahraini uprising
I guess that it would be ok if I added a referenced section about the attacks on human rights defenders? Here's what I'm thinking about:



On 20 March 2011, after Nabeel Rajab condemned the Bahrain government's use of force against peaceful protesters in the 2011 Bahraini uprising and the Bahrain Center for Human Rights accused Bahraini forces and their Saudi and Emirati allies of "massacres" after four protesters were killed, Rajab was briefly detained by 20 to 25 masked men, some armed with rifles along with dozens of uniformed Bahraini security forces at 1:30am who broke in and searched his house, confiscated his files and a computer. They allegedly blindfolded and handcuffed him and put into the back of a vehicle before verbally abusing, beating and threatening to rape him. He was reported saying: They kicked me when I refused to say I love the prime minister. Rajab was subsequently released after questioning -about a man being sought whom Rajab did not know- in a detention facility run by the Ministry of Interior in Adliya, a suburb of the capital, Manama.

On 10 April, officials publicly accused Rajab of fabricating photos posted on his twitter account of the body of Ali Isa Ibrahim Saqer, who died in detention on 9 April. The photos showed slash marks all over his back and other signs of physical abuse. A Human Rights Watch researcher saw Saqer's body just prior to his burial and said the photos were accurate. According to PBS news hour on 17 May 2011, "Five prison guards are being charged with Saqer's death. That's according to Bahrain's Minister of Justice Sheikh Khalid bin Ali bin Abdulla al Khalifa, one of the royal family".



In the early hours of 18 April 2011 unknown assailants lobbed teargas grenades into the home of Nabeel Rajab in the village of Bani Jamra. Tear gas penetrated into the adjacent home of Rajab's 78-year-old mother who suffers from respiratory disease, causing her great distress. To Human Rights Watch's knowledge, only Bahrain's security forces have access to the types of grenades thrown into the Rajab family's compound.

For the second time since the start of 2011 Bahraini uprising Nabeel Rajab's house was attacked by unknown assailants in the early hours of 21 May. Four gas grenades were fired at the house at 3:30 am Saturday in the village of Bani Jamra, Bahrain, and two broke through the windows in quarters occupied by his brother, Nader, and his family. A third went off in the compound. After an attack in mid-April, Human Rights Watch noted that the grenades were manufactured in the United States and were of a type to which only the Bahrain Defense Authorities had access. Now it appears the Bahraini government has found a new supplier. Rajab said: this time, the grenades were of a smaller dimension than in mid-April, and there were no markings of manufacture.



On 23 May, Nabeel Rajab claimed that his uncle, Moh'd Hassan Moh'd Jawad (65 years) who is an activist is arrested and is being tortured for his relation to Nabeel Rajab.

Mohamed CJ (talk) 05:47, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


 * That level of detail would be more appropriate for Rajab's page, I think. Mentioning that he's alleged that he and his relatives have been harassed, assaulted, detained, and tortured for their activism would be fine, but to insert all of this plus three pictures focusing on one person seems to put undue weight on his personal experience. -Kudzu1 (talk) 06:03, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

In fact it is in Rajab's page. Could you possibly make the summary and put a link to Nabeel Rajab? Mohamed CJ (talk) 06:34, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

I've added those to the daily events. I've summarized them as well. Mohamed CJ (talk) 10:23, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Anti-Government or Pro-democracy
I think that the word Anti-government in this article should be changed to pro-democracy or at least keep it just like the source says. I have seen at least one source which said Pro-democracy, but the in the article when the source was mentioned it said anti-government. Mohamed CJ (talk) 09:03, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Torture claims
I'm going to add sources and list all the sourced torture claims during the period of Bahrain uprising. Do you think I should open a special section for this in the article? (what i'm planning to do). Mohamed CJ (talk) 13:59, 25 May 2011 (UTC). If this section is found as acceptable in the article (or if it's changed a bit), I'm ready to add even more sources. Mohamed CJ (talk) 16:20, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Torture claims by:

Nabeel Rajab (president of BCHR)

 * 9 & 10 April: Ali Sager died in prison as a result of torture.
 * 11 April: Martyr Zakaria Al Ashiri that we buried today – as you see the marks of torture.
 * 12 April: confirmed news on the torture of some arrested leaders including Hasan Mushaima, Ibrahim Sharif and Dr. Abduljalil Sengace.
 * 13 April: Witnesses confirm signs of torture on Fakhrawi's body.
 * 23 April: Reports that many of detained female & male doctors, nurses & paramedics undergoing systemic severe beating & torture>
 * 26 April: poet Ayat Al Qurmuzi subjected to severe torture and was forced to admit things have not committed in front of the camera.
 * 26 April: Dr.Sadik Radi is one of the youngest doctors-arrested two weeks ago - fear that he has been subjected to torture.
 * 8 May: Activist Mohd Hasan Jawad,65 y- was tortured severely, electrocuted and marks of tortured was clear on his body 2day in court (Nabeel Rajab's uncle).
 * 8 May: Some were tortured in order to say they are connected with Iran.
 * 22 May: Cleric Habib Miqdad (Swedish nationality) told judge he was tortured, shows wound allegedly cause by drill.
 * 22 May: Ahmed Abdullah:arrested a month ago w/out news But-unconfirmed news: he might be in military hospital due to Torture.
 * 23 May: 2 journalists tortured in Bahrain yesterday, torture of female journalist lasted 13 hours.
 * 23 May: Journalist Mazen Mahdi is being torture blindfolded & handcuffed during his suspension time.
 * 23 May: Martyr Karim Fakhrawi died due to torture & electrocution to force him to confess he was dealing with Iran & Hizboallah.
 * 24 May: Most of the defendants can't feel their fingers due to torture and some are afraid to complain due to threats they had received.
 * 24 May: With torture signs on their bodies, 15 Bahraini detainees's denied killing an asian & accepted protesting charge.
 * 24 May: 15 accused of murder of an Asian-all defendants deny the charges except the charge of protesting. All defendants were tortured.
 * 25 May: Daily spiting in the mouth of detainees Abdullah Isa Al Mahroos and Mohammed Hassan Mohammed Jawad in the morning.

Los Angeles Times

 * 13 April: BAHRAIN: Fourth person dies in police custody as human rights groups allege torture (about Karim Fakhrawi).
 * 4 May: BAHRAIN: Medical staff face prosecution, alleged torture after aiding anti-government protesters (about Fareeda Dallal and other unnamed doctors).
 * 17 May: BAHRAIN: Report alleges torture, calls for Obama, U.S. leaders to help.

ABC News

 * 22 March: "Bahrain activists arrested and tortured" (about Nabeel Rajab).
 * 14 May: Bahrain denies torture claims.

The Independent

 * 22 April: Bahrain security forces 'tortured patients'.
 * 10 May: Blindfolded, beaten and tortured: grim new testimony reveals fate of Bahrain's persecuted doctors.

Human Rights First

 * 12 May: “When he was recovering from the operation they tortured him again,” Torture and Unfair Trial of Protesters in Bahrain (about the 21 suspects: Abdulhadi Alkhawaja, Abdulwahab Hussain Ali Ahmed, Ibrahim Sharif Abdulraheem Mossa, Hassan Ali Mushaima, Abduljalil Abdullah Al Singace, Mohammed Habib Al Saffaf, Saeed Mirza Ahmed, Abduljalil Radhi Mansoor Makki (Abduljalil Al Muqdad), Abdulhadi Abdulla Mahdi Hassan, Al Hurr Yousif Mohammed, Abdullah Isa Al Mahroos, Salah Hubail Al Khawaja, Mohammed Hassan Jawad and Mohammed Ali Ismael. Seven more being tried in absentia are: Akeel Ahmed Al Mafoodh, Ali Hassan Abdullah, Abdulghani Ali Khanjar, Saeed Abdulnabi Shehab, Abdulraoof Al Shayeb, Abbas Al Umran and Ali Hassan Mushaima.

Financial Times

 * 23 May: Foreign media allege Bahrain abuse.

Front Line

 * 9 May: Bahrain: Serious concerns about torture and fair trial of former Front Line Protection Coordinator Abdulhadi Al-Khawaja after initial hearing.

Amnesty International

 * 6 May: Bahrain: Further information: Human rights defender tortured in detention (about Abdulhadi Alkhawaja).

Socialist Worker Online

 * 7 May: Bahrainis take torture evidence to UN.

Guardian

 * 28 April: Bahrain 'torture service' official to attend royal wedding.

Daily Mail

 * 20 May: Cameron blasted for welcoming 'torturer' of Bahrain to No. 10.

The Christian Science Monitor

 * 16 May: Bahrain rights activist's wife details torture, unfair trial (about Abdulhadi Alkhawaja and Mohammed Hassan Mohammed Jawad).

CNN

 * 13 April: Agency: 4th protester to die in Bahrain may have been tortured (about Karim Fakhrawi).

BBC News

 * 11 April: Bahrain unrest: Torture fears as activists die in jail.

World Socialist Web Site

 * 13 April: US-backed Bahrain regime tortures, murders critics (about Ali Saqer).

Nicholas Kristof (columnist for The New York Times)

 * 16 May: Our close ally, Bahrain, has a consistent record of using sexual abuse of male and female detainees as a form of torture.

Kristen Chick (Reporter for The Christian Science Monitor)

 * 16 May: Another defendant, Mohamed Hassan Jawad, tried to show marks of torture on legs during hearing today, was silenced, say witnesses.

Mohamed CJ (talk) 15:02, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Lead figures
The opposition lead figures are not just Al Wefaq + 14 Feb youth.

It was composed of: a union of 7 political societies (including Al Wefaq, National Democratic Action Society, Nationalist Democratic Rally Society, Progressive Democratic Tribune and Islamic Action Society) + Haq Movement + Al Wafa Islamic Party + 14 Feb youth.

I will work on this later if no one is willing to. Mohamed CJ (talk) 09:07, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Go ahead, by all means. Sounds like you know more about the situation than I do. -Kudzu1 (talk) 09:54, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Usage of "Rose Revolution"
In the first sentence, it reads "Sometimes called Rose Revolution", I do live in Bahrain and hadn't heard of this term. There is also no citation nor link that suggests the usage of "Rose Revolution". Although some may call it the "Lulu(pearl) Revolution". Droodkin (talk) 12:53, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, okay, go ahead and change it then. I can't find WP:RS supporting Rose either; I just took it from the infobox when I cleaned up the intro a few days ago. -Kudzu1 (talk) 14:12, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

I live in Bahrain and I can confirm that it's called lulu revolution much more than rose revolution, but the term rose revolution is used as well, just not often. The dominant name is 14 February revolution tho. Mohamed CJ (talk) 16:08, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

So, should it be lulu revolution or Pearl revolution ? Droodkin (talk) 16:50, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Just something to mention, it was Mansoor Al Jamry, former editor of Al Wasat news paper who first used the term Pearls revolution.

I live in Bahrain too and never witnessed any "Roses" in the so claimed riots, I just saw rioters and anti-democracy thugs with weapons and knives threatening peaceful people and trying to increase the instability in Bahrain and the region to weaken it's image to the world, then ease the way to Iran to takeover Bahrain and continues their way to Makka in the heart of K.S.A. Aldoy (talk) 21:05, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

File:Protesters camped out infront of the Pearl Roundabout in Bahrain.jpg Nominated for Deletion
Why is it being deleted ? Droodkin (talk) 12:28, 3 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Apparently the Bahraini government doesn't allow unlicensed photographs of buildings constructed within the past 50 years. And for some reason, Wikipedia is under the impression that it should kowtow to autocratic regimes' blatant restrictions on free speech and information. I think it's absolutely ridiculous but it's probably not worth trying to appeal this all the way to the top. Them's the breaks. -Kudzu1 (talk) 12:46, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

They have destroyed the momentum and don't "allow" people to publish it's pictures? Great.

I will try to get a picture for the camp-out that doesn't show the momentum.

So how come the media are publishing photos for the pearl roundabout if it's not legal? Mohamed CJ (talk) 13:06, 3 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Those better versed in Commons procedures should intervene over this photo. The deletion request claims that the monument is the "primary subject" of this photo, and that's just wrong (the protest camp is the primary subject). The same considerations that apply to the other challenged photos at Pearl Roundabout should not apply to this photo. Wareh (talk) 14:26, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Formula 1
Today it was announced that Formula 1 has been canceled. I don't have time to add this, but could anyone do that?

Sources: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/08/uk-motor-racing-bahrain-idUSLNE75704E20110608 http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/motorsport/06/07/motorsport.F1.mosley.bahrain/ http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/08/bahrain-grand-prix-not-on-after-teams-object/ http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/13694628.stm http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2011/06/bahrain-formula-1-boss-says-grand-prix-postponed.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mohamed CJ (talk • contribs) 18:59, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Splitting the Timeline
I think we need to split the "Timeline" section into a new page while keeping summary here. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 09:22, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yep, sounds good: Timeline of the 2011 Bahraini uprising. -Kudzu1 (talk) 09:28, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Regime using migrant workers to distort opposition
This topic is useful: http://www.migrant-rights.org/2011/06/29/bahrain-further-restricts-migrant-rights-while-publicly-expressing-concern-for-migrants/

"The hypocrisy of using the attacks on migrants for political gain is all the more evident considering Bahrain’s poor track-record when it comes to migrant rights, which has only worsened since the February protests. While criticizing the opposition for the attacks on migrants, in recent weeks the Bahraini regime had issued several anti-migrant resolutions."

" The xenophobic attacks on innocent migrant workers, which were condemned by opposition figures and NGOs, were also a result of government policy to force migrants to protest on behalf of the regime."

"the Foreign Minister Khaled Al Khalifa paid visits to expatriate clubs and embassies, Bahraini TV began broadcasting news bulletins in languages spoken by migrants in Bahrain, and expats were even invited to the National Dialog."

"Last week, when a group of 300 Asian construction workers went on strike demanding an increase in their meager salaries, 40 of them were fired after their management declared that the strike in “illegal”. When the workers turned to the Labor Ministry, the Ministry backed the employer and told the workers that they’re forbidden to ask for salary increases. Five days after the strike began, the workers returned to work with no salary increases. "

This also: http://www.migrant-rights.org/2011/05/20/bahrain-crackdown-arrested-54-undocumented-migrants/ http://www.migrant-rights.org/2011/03/28/migrant-workers-targetted-in-bahrain-violence/

Mohamed CJ (talk) 16:43, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Updates

 * US-Bahrain defense pact renewed
 * Pakistani troops aid Bahrain's crackdown
 * Also this documentary does a great job showing what we have missing in the article -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 05:23, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Death of Policemen and Saudi one
Hello, actually there is no policemen died in Bahrain and all news about them are lies and fabrication from government. Furthermore, there are many proofs to this because martyr pictures and information are availabe while there is nothing at all about the policemen. Moreover, if the Saudi official issue is true, it is not from protesters at all, protestors has no guns or weapons to shot. It is surely from the progaganda. I think it is more proper to remove the Saudi from the deaths table because it is a claim like the policemen issue. Thank you and I can help you because I am knowledgable about the topic. Magmi (talk) 06:45, 28 August 2011 (UTC)Magmi

More deaths in protesters side
Hello, actually there are about three more people died or more. I'll try to find the names and info and post them. Magmi (talk) 02:33, 29 August 2011 (UTC)Magmi

Missing persons
A friend living in Bahrain tells me that an "unreasonable amount of people (including kids)" have gone missing since the uprising began. This doesn't seem accounted for in the article as it stands. If someone can find a reliable source that mentions missing persons (I'm going to be hunting for them myself), I'd be happy to add a section on missing persons to the article. --ScWizard (talk) 07:12, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


 * This was after the pre-dawn crackdown on 17 February, known locally as the "Bloody Thursday" or "Thursday massacre". 70 people were missing and it turned out that many of them were either hiding or arrested. see this. All of them were found by 1 March (except for one). see this Lately there was one 15 years old girl missing after attending a protest with her family and she was found after 3 days. see this and this Bahraini Activist (talk) 07:49, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, forum admin Ali Abdulemam is currently missing (he disappeared during the crackdown), and I saw on my twitter feed the other day that his sister has claimed she thinks he is dead. It's also possible he may be in hiding to avoid arrest.  There's a British pensioner named Patricia Bulgen who went missing in Bahrain during the unrest (see here).  Those are the only missing persons cases I know of related to the unrest. Billmarczak (talk) 15:49, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


 * No man, Ali Abdulemam can't be dead. You might have got confused. His sister wrote in 07-06-2003 (here) that Ali (and other Bahrain Online staff ) killed himself by exposing his real identity. (this topic was re-posted to Bahrain Online recently). Ali is missing since mid-March, the first arrest attempt was on 18 March night when many opposition leaders were also arrested, they didn't find him in his flat and his family don't know about him. Sheikh Habib al-Jamry, of Islamic Action Society is also missing since March and no one knows about him (probably hiding). Bahraini Activist (talk) 20:01, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


 * You're right! My mistake, I didn't notice it was a repost from 2003 til you mentioned that. Billmarczak (talk) 22:15, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Causes: Inspiration
Hey, guys. Is it okay if we put "Inspiration from concurrent regional protests" as one of the Causes under the Bahraini uprising infobox? 60.49.63.145 (talk) 03:16, 3 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Seems entirely reasonable to me, yeah. -Kudzu1 (talk) 03:42, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Numbers
I have noticed that a new section in the info box has been added which talks about numbers. This issue was and is still very controversial in Bahrain it self, specially when the governmental T.V claimed that 450,000 people (more than 80% of Bahrainis) have gathered in Al Fatih mosque, while other reports suggested that they were less than 100,000 (30,000-40,000 to be specific). Also the opposition claims that 300,000 people (more than 50% of Bahrainis) have participated in the march of loyalty to martyrs, while other reports said it's more than 100,000 or 200,000 at most (BICI report says that the biggest number reached by protesters was 150,000 in Pearl roundabout). So when giving numbers, there is going to be a lot of dispute and a need to provide reliable sources that are NPOV. So, pro-governmental (BNA, GDN, Al Arabiya.. etc) and pro-opposition (Al-Alam, Al Manar, Bahrain Mirror.. etc) sources won't be good for this.

The numbers displayed currently are small for both groups and without citations. We either completely remove numbers or add NPOV reliable citations. Bahraini Activist (talk) 11:47, 2 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I have two problems with the numbers section. (1) I think the 100,000 for the National Unity Gathering is quite overstated, based on video I've seen of the gathering.  I'd believe 30-40k (in fact I seem to recall reading this number in an NPOV source) or maybe even 50k.  On the other hand, the video and photos of the gathering I've been able to find are quite poor, and it is hard to estimate the number of people present, although it does seem there is ample space in between people standing, and empty seats in the seating area.  (2) I'm not sure listing numbers is useful, because it ignores differences in intensity of demonstrations and levels of commitment.  For example, opposition demonstrations were sustained, while pro-government demonstrations were sporadic.  I also seem to remember reading an NPOV source stating that expatriate laborers were given coupons for food to attend (though I can't find the source now, or remember where I read it).  The BICI report also reports the presence of non-Bahraini GCC nationals at the protests.  Billmarczak (talk) 04:06, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh and (3), the maximum size of any one rally is not necessarily an accurate count of the number of people who protested across the entire period of the uprising. For example, maybe some people couldn't make the first National Unity Gathering rally, and went to the second one, and some people from the first couldn't make the second. Billmarczak (talk) 04:12, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * (1) I was just trying to be NPOV (maybe I went a bit far into that). The BICI says they didn't exceed 100,000 (meaning 100,000 is max) and had non-Bahrainis. If you find the sources you mentioned, then I guess it's fine to edit it. I too have read somewhere that they were 30k-40k only as I have said in my first comment. As for (2) I noticed that some of the other revolutions/uprisings articles are using numbers as well, but not in 2011–2012 Syrian uprising. (3) agreed, but I guess this is the best gauge. So, what are you thinking about, fixing the numbers (including adding the numbers of police/military/GCC) or removing this section completely? Other opinions are welcome as well. Bahraini Activist (talk) 08:59, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

potential resource
Barricaded in Bahrain by Joost Hiltermann and Kelly McEvers The New York Review of Books December 27, 2011, 11:35 a.m 99.181.147.68 (talk) 03:14, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Repeated vandalism of this page
While I expect User:Mohammed alkhater is not long for this Wikipedia community after repeatedly editing the page to make it appear as though the uprising lasted only a single day and is "finished", I would like to ask everyone who is active on this page to be vigilant against efforts to vandalize it. I know some editors on this page may have strong personal feelings or connections to this event, but of course we must follow WP:NPOV and work to keep this article objective, comprehensive, and verifiable. Thanks for all your hard work and I am happy to work with all y'all. -Kudzu1 (talk) 07:22, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Bahraini uprising lasted a day? Wow!!!! Whoever put this, seriously, he or she should go seek "Wikipedia counselling". I won't be suprised if next time there was a bias and unverified article saying "Iranians and Shias planned the Almighty Arab Spring and here to sabotage the Gulf rulers and here to set up a theocratic state like Iran! Look I got evidence! Don't listen to Shias, they are heretics!" LOL!!! Typical pro-al-Saud people says that. 60.49.63.145 (talk) 16:15, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Casualty figures
Does anyone have up-to-date sources on injuries, deaths, and arrests stemming from this uprising? Many of the ones currently in use date back to last year, some of them to as far back as February and March 2011. -Kudzu1 (talk) 07:15, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't have any info on injuries. I'm currently working on updating the deaths section using the Bahrain Independent Commission of Inquiry report for deaths that occurred before the publication of their report, and using info from the Bahrain Center for Human Rights for deaths that occurred after the publication of the report.  The deaths section has a lot of incorrect info (there is at least one person who didn't actually die -- the Saudi soldier -- listed, and a lot of people who died that aren't listed).  Also, the causes of death are incorrect for a lot of people.  As for arrests, the Bahrain Independent Commission of Inquiry report has some numbers I think, and those should be valid through the beginning of November. Billmarczak (talk) 07:28, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, excellent. If you're currently working on it, then I don't want to barge in on that, but if you need any help, let me know and I'll try to set aside some of my editing free time for it. Thanks. -Kudzu1 (talk) 07:32, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually, BICI numbers are only valid till 30 September; they closed their doors to write the report after that and 4 deaths occurred between 30 September and 23 November that weren't included in the report (See last paragraph). Other best source is BCHR and their joint report. This article also has some interesting numbers. It's very hard to estimate injuries numbers, due to most of them being treated in houses, not hospitals. As for arrest, do we include all of those that were ever arrested or only those that are currently arrested? Bahraini Activist (talk) 09:13, 7 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, this paragraph about the use of CS gas needs to be updated with the 3 last deaths then used in this article. Bahraini Activist (talk) 09:56, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I always used BCHR as part of my source of the death toll for Bahrain. However because this site is more for "promoting human rights in Bahrain", so they don't really talk much about death from the government sides. Only that they don't update much. Nonetheless, good source anyway. 60.49.63.145 (talk) 16:23, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I've revamped the deaths section, including 46 deaths listed in BICI, and 9 more listed by BCHR after BICI. Some of the nine most recent deaths may be missing gov't POV. Also, if you see any errors, feel free to correct them! Billmarczak (talk) 05:58, 8 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Good job! I will add the gov't POV for some (because the government didn't comment on all of them) of the last 9 deaths when I get time and I have edited the numbers except for deaths, check them out. Bahraini Activist (talk) 07:14, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Which word describes best for ousting of King Hamad?
Just a question here (not really attempt to edit it), but in other republican countries like Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria and Yemen, we used the word Resignation for those leaders. When the Bahraini protesters were demanding the resignation of King Hamad, shouldn't the word Abdication best describes the resignation of the king, or at least monarchs? 60.49.63.145 (talk) 03:40, 12 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I think "abdication" might be a slightly better word to use. "Resignation" also makes sense, though.Billmarczak (talk) 16:31, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Individual deaths
Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely on the side of the protesters against the monarchy and Saudis. (And it's very rare that I feel one side of a political dispute is unequivocally and completely in the wrong, and even rarer that I'll say it publicly.) But I of course try to adhere to NPOV when editing, and I'm concerned that listing all the individual deaths of protesters seems to be more to play up the bad behavior of the Gulf monarchies than to provide any useful encyclopedic value. In fact, I think it detracts from the article since the table takes up a very large part of the article, and is quite distracting. I could see splitting it into a new article though. We have lists of TV show episodes, why not deaths? --Quintucket (talk) 04:13, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I do agree that it is a bit of a distraction to go into each case individually in this article, and I'd support moving the death table to its own article. However, I think there is encyclopedic value in maintaining some aggregate numbers in the deaths section explaining who died (e.g., X security forces, Y protesters, Z non-protesting civilians), who has been found (if anyone) to have caused the death (e.g., protesters, mobs, army, police, disputed), and the top causes of death (e.g., breakdown into birdshot, gunshot, torture, tear gas, run over by car). Billmarczak (talk) 05:38, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree (I was just going to post the same as Billmarczak - edit conflict). The article name can be Casualties of the 2011-2012 Bahraini uprising (see Casualties of the 2011 Libyan civil war). Also injures section needs expansion + update. Here are 2 good references and . If we wanted to add a section about torture, would it fit under casualties? Bahraini Activist (talk) 05:51, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

All those who died as a result getting beaten by police or by unknowns or had torture marks were added to torture. 2 recent deaths were added, one by torture  and one Self-immolation. Please check if I made any calculation mistakes. Bahraini Activist (talk) 20:50, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


 * 1 more death by tear gas today . Bahraini Activist (talk) 22:42, 14 January 2012 (UTC)


 * A few comments. I don't think we should classify beating deaths under "torture," because BICI doesn't classify these deaths as torture deaths.  Maybe a "physical injury" category would be best.  Also, even though I suggested it, I'm starting to rethink the idea of 'non-protesting civilians' as a category, because it seems hard to know which civilians were protesting and which weren't.  For example, the MoI investigation says Hani Abdulaziz Abdulla Jumaa was "the leader of the protesters," whatever that means, while I've heard witnesses say that he wasn't protesting.  Perhaps we should do it like the BICI report, and just divide it into "civilians," "expats," "security forces."  I've broken it down below by surname (I think we should use numbers in the end, but I'm using surnames here just to make clear which deaths I'm putting in which categories.)  I've created a category called "Deaths I don't know how to classify," because they don't fit into one of the categories, or they may be disputed by the government.  I put all of the tear gas deaths in that category, because I don't know which ones the government says were natural causes, and which one the government didn't comment on.  This probably requires some more research.  For disputed deaths, do you think we should have a "disputed" category?  For deaths that the government didn't comment on, what should we do?  Should we take the POV of the BCHR?  Or do you think we should have two different tables?  One from the POV of the BCHR, and one from the POV of government?


 * {| class="wikitable sortable"

! Cause of Death ! Civilians ! Expatriates ! Security Forces
 * + Deaths
 * Birdshot
 * Almeshaima, Matrook, Abutaki, Khudair, Hussain, Moumen, Farhan, Hasan, Abdulaal, Al Qattan
 * Gunshot
 * Buhamaid, Salman, Mayoof, Jumaa, Alaradi,
 * Abraham
 * Shamlan
 * Torture
 * Maki, Asheri, Saqer, Fakhrawi, Alawiyat
 * Physical injury
 * Alradhi, Hujair
 * Rasool, Maqbul
 * Auto-pedestrian collision
 * Baddah, Alqassab
 * Ali
 * Muraysi, Mandhour, Abdulsamad
 * Deaths I don't know how to classify
 * Abdulla, Shams, Abdulhai, Mahfoudh, Khamis, Farhan, Ahmed, Abuidrees, Almusawi, Jumaa, Altaweel, Alsheikh, Marhoon, Yusuf, Allah, al-Dehi, Kadhem, Saleh, Faisal, Ahmed, Saeed, Al-Sakran
 * Ayyad
 * }
 * Auto-pedestrian collision
 * Baddah, Alqassab
 * Ali
 * Muraysi, Mandhour, Abdulsamad
 * Deaths I don't know how to classify
 * Abdulla, Shams, Abdulhai, Mahfoudh, Khamis, Farhan, Ahmed, Abuidrees, Almusawi, Jumaa, Altaweel, Alsheikh, Marhoon, Yusuf, Allah, al-Dehi, Kadhem, Saleh, Faisal, Ahmed, Saeed, Al-Sakran
 * Ayyad
 * }
 * Abdulla, Shams, Abdulhai, Mahfoudh, Khamis, Farhan, Ahmed, Abuidrees, Almusawi, Jumaa, Altaweel, Alsheikh, Marhoon, Yusuf, Allah, al-Dehi, Kadhem, Saleh, Faisal, Ahmed, Saeed, Al-Sakran
 * Ayyad
 * }
 * }


 * (by the way, the table above doesn't include the 3 deaths in the past 2 days). Billmarczak (talk) 02:11, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


 * 1) Physical abuse is more accurate than physical injury. 2) Agreed. By the way, Hani Jumaa was killed with birdshot, not gunshot 3) Putting Shamlan and Ayyad in security forces makes it sound that they were killed by protesters, while one was killed by BDF gunshot and the other was detained by BDF and had torture marks, so I'm moving them to civilians side till we find a way to clarify this. (Many shia's who worked in BDF and Security forces refused the orders + there was great sectarian division which led to classifying almost any shia as protester.) 4) Actually the government doesn't recognize that any person at all died with tear gas, even clear deaths such as Alsheikh and Saeed (whether they made comments or not), so this point should be put as a note above or under the table, and a category should be included. 5) Yusuf and al-Dehi can be classified as physical abuse, but since there was a time gap, I'll move them to "other".


 * {| class="wikitable sortable"

! Cause of Death ! Civilians ! Expatriates ! Security Forces
 * + Deaths
 * Birdshot
 * Almeshaima, Matrook, Abutaki, Khudair, Hussain, Moumen, Farhan, Hasan, Abdulaal, Al Qattan, Jumaa
 * Gunshot
 * Buhamaid, Salman, Mayoof, Alaradi, Shamlan
 * Abraham
 * Torture
 * Maki, Asheri, Saqer, Fakhrawi, Alawiyat
 * Physical abuse
 * Alradhi, Hujair, Ayyad, Mahfoudh, Abuidrees
 * Rasool, Maqbul
 * Auto-pedestrian collision
 * Baddah, Alqassab
 * Ali
 * Muraysi, Mandhour, Abdulsamad
 * Tear gas*
 * Abdulla, Shams, Abdulhai, Farhan, Ahmed, Almusawi, Jumaa, Altaweel, Alsheikh, Marhoon, Allah, Faisal, Ahmed, Saeed, Al-Sakran
 * Other**
 * Khamis, Yusuf, al-Dehi, Kadhem, Saleh
 * }
 * Auto-pedestrian collision
 * Baddah, Alqassab
 * Ali
 * Muraysi, Mandhour, Abdulsamad
 * Tear gas*
 * Abdulla, Shams, Abdulhai, Farhan, Ahmed, Almusawi, Jumaa, Altaweel, Alsheikh, Marhoon, Allah, Faisal, Ahmed, Saeed, Al-Sakran
 * Other**
 * Khamis, Yusuf, al-Dehi, Kadhem, Saleh
 * }
 * Other**
 * Khamis, Yusuf, al-Dehi, Kadhem, Saleh
 * }
 * Other**
 * Khamis, Yusuf, al-Dehi, Kadhem, Saleh
 * }
 * }
 * }

* The government doesn't recognize that any individuals have died as a result of the use of tear gas.
 * Some are disputed.

The recent 3 deaths (didn't include them) are:
 * 1) Yousif Ahmed Abbas al-Muwali, his body has physical abuse/torture marks ,
 * 2) Badriya Ali, Self-immolation ,
 * 3) Salma Abdul Muhsen, tear gas.,.

Bahraini Activist (talk) 09:22, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, while Al Wefaq accepted BICI, other parts of the opposition didn't. Islamic Action Society and February 14 Youth Coalition completely refused BICI even before the report was issued; they asked for a UN commission. And Bahrain Mirror, an opposition website which shares same demands with Al Wefaq (Constitutional monarchy) said that BICI only showed 40% of the truth. This makes the deaths from police side which the BICI blamed on protesters disputed. Bahraini Activist (talk) 11:58, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. How do you suggest that we address the disputed neutrality of BICI?  Do you think it's relevant for the deaths?  Anyway, about Hani Jumaa, BICI report says "gunshot," but many pics and videos show four shotgun cartridges (manufactured by a Cypriot company) in the room where he was killed (I pointed this out in a recent post on my blog).  Human Rights Watch also says he was killed with birdshot.  So I'm not sure whether to go with BICI or Alwasat/HRW/everyone else on the classification of his death.  What do you think?  As for tear gas, I think the asterisk is okay, but might discount the government POV too much.  Maybe we should change it to "Tear Gas (allegedly)*" ?  I think we can put the security forces killed by security forces back into the appropriate columns if we put some sort of footnote associated with each one that says "killed by security forces."  Billmarczak (talk) 21:16, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Neutrality of BICI report should be addressed in BICI article, this was just a side note for you - but don't stop from adding stuff from it to Wikipedia; it's a highly reliable report.


 * About deaths from government side, officially all opposition parties didn't comment on the incident of drive over or the footage (except after the report was issued, members of Al Wefaq started recognizing that there were deaths from Government side). The only official move was by Naji Fateel who is a member of Bahrain Youth Society for Human Rights when he posted a video for a witness . The witness who is a known agent working for intelligence forces says he was in the scene carrying weapons after getting out of the car, can be seen (but not identified) in the video, confirmed that people who were driving weren't those the government accused, (he said this because his "conscience woke up" and didn't want to be the reason for their death while he could simply save them by speaking up) and that's it. So the witness actually confirms that police were killed, but gives a way out for those accused of killing them, which to me seems like a good way to close the case by government without getting into conflict with their bases. However, many if not all opposition cyber activist deny that and a more recent video taken by a foreigner emerged showing "the bigger picture", which what seems to be police pushing protesters to Sanabis completely clearing the place and another group of police standing by ambulances with no nurses present at all and a white thing (a doll?) on the moving bed and the cars as seen in the first published footage, however the footage isn't clear and wasn't used by any opposition party, not even F14YC.


 * About Hani Jumaa, It's clearly birdshot to me, pictures/videos/reliable sources say that, unless BICI says where they got the info from, then it could be a small mistake. The rest I guess it's alright. Bahraini Activist (talk) 22:53, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Hani's death certificate says "gunshot" instead of "shotgun." However, the certificate was issued by BDF hospital, whereas most certificates for shotgun deaths were issued at Salmaniya. So maybe it's just a case of the BDF hospital being less precise than Salmaniya.  In any case, I think "gunshot" is more general than "shotgun."  And given reliable sources that say "shotgun," I think it's fine to classify Hani's death as death by shotgun.  About the police killings, yeah I've seen that witness video.  Even without that video, I have no doubt the people accused are innocent, the confessions were just way too absurd.  Anyway, I haven't seen "the bigger picture" footage until now, but I agree it's inconclusive.  Based on what you said, it doesn't sound like any notable opposition group is disputing the deaths of the officers.


 * In conclusion, I think the table you have above is good, except I think we should put Shamlan and Ayyad back into security forces. Perhaps we could add footnotes to make clear that Shamlan was killed by security forces, and there are no allegations that demonstrators are responsible for Ayyad's death.  A better alternative might be to add another table that attributes deaths to either security forces, unknown assailants, protesters, or disputed.  For example, something like this (except with numbers):


 * {| class="wikitable sortable"

! Killed By ! Civilians ! Expatriates ! Security Forces
 * + Deaths
 * Security Forces
 * Almeshaima, Matrook, Abutaki, Khudair, Hussain, Moumen, Farhan, Jumaa, Buhamaid, Alaradi, Alradhi, Maki, Asheri, Saqer, Fakhrawi, Alawiyat, Salman, Mayoof
 * Abraham
 * Shamlan
 * Protesters
 * Muraysi, Mandhour, Abdulsamad
 * Unknown Assailants
 * Hasan, Abdulaal, Hujair, Mahfoudh
 * Rasool, Maqbul
 * Ayyad
 * Disputed
 * Al Qattan
 * Not sure how to classify
 * Shams, Abdulla, Yusuf, Abuidrees, Baddah, Alqassab, Ali, Abdulhai, Farhan, Ahmed, Almusawi, Jumaa, Altaweel, Alsheikh, Marhoon, Allah, Faisal, Ahmed, Saeed, Al-Sakran, Khamis, al-Dehi, Kadhem, Saleh
 * }
 * Disputed
 * Al Qattan
 * Not sure how to classify
 * Shams, Abdulla, Yusuf, Abuidrees, Baddah, Alqassab, Ali, Abdulhai, Farhan, Ahmed, Almusawi, Jumaa, Altaweel, Alsheikh, Marhoon, Allah, Faisal, Ahmed, Saeed, Al-Sakran, Khamis, al-Dehi, Kadhem, Saleh
 * }
 * Not sure how to classify
 * Shams, Abdulla, Yusuf, Abuidrees, Baddah, Alqassab, Ali, Abdulhai, Farhan, Ahmed, Almusawi, Jumaa, Altaweel, Alsheikh, Marhoon, Allah, Faisal, Ahmed, Saeed, Al-Sakran, Khamis, al-Dehi, Kadhem, Saleh
 * }
 * }
 * }
 * }


 * Anyway, let me know what you think. Perhaps this table will be too hard to make.  I'm also not too sure about the classification of Buhamaid and Abraham.  The deaths are attributed to the BDF according to the BICI report, but the BDF denies that they fired the lethal shot.  So would those be "killed by security forces" or "disputed?"  Also, BICI says those 3 police officers were killed by "demonstrators," but I'm not sure how BICI arrived at that conclusion.  I suspect it was based on the people convicted of running them over, who will (hopefully) be found innocent in civilian court.  Clearly, if the accused people are found innocent, we should attribute those deaths to "unknown assailants."  For right now, I'm not sure where we should put them.  Wherever we put them, we should add a footnote stating that there's currently a trial going on. Billmarczak (talk) 07:58, 16 January 2012 (UTC)


 * BICI report was completely accepted by government, and the governemnt statements which denied killing some protesters were before the BICI, so Buhamaid, Abraham and Ali Jawad Alsheikh aren't disputed. I'm with adding the other table and with a small note as you mentioned. Let's make a final choice about how the first table should look like (added recent 3 deaths).

* The government doesn't recognize most deaths that were attributed to the use of tear gas.

I'm surprised that BICI says no autopsy was done to Sayed Ahmed Saeed Shams, while pictures clearly show that. Any death allegedly by tear gas that the government didn't comment on should fit into "Security forces (allegedly)" and if the government denied then it's moved to "Disputed". For Kadhem and al-Dehi, I believe the government denied they killed them, so moved to disputed. For the rest in Security forces (allegedly) section, we need to find government comments, and if they didn't comment I think we should keep them. Also, added the 3 recent deaths.

* A trial for 7 protesters accused of killing police is still going on.

Hopefully I will create Casualties of the 2011-2012 Bahraini uprising article on Thursday-Saturday. Bahraini Activist (talk) 10:50, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The first table looks great. As for the second table, I'd move Yusuf, Abuidrees and Khamis to "Security forces (allegedly)," because the BICI report doesn't attribute those deaths to anybody (the deaths were outside of their temporal mandate).  I'd move Alsheikh to disputed, because the government claims that security forces were not involved in his death.  The BICI report finds that Ali Alsheikh's injury is consistent w/ being struck by an unexploded tear gas canister at close range, but does not attribute his death to security forces.  Also, is Sayed Hashim Saeed's death really disputed?  The cause of death was a neck injury, but the government only issued a statement saying that burns (only found on his chest and arm) were inconsistent w/ tear gas, as far as I know.  However, maybe I'm reading too much into the details of the statement, and the government did intend to deny it was responsible for the neck injury as well.  As for moving people from "Security forces (allegedly)" to "disputed," here are the government denials I'm aware of:


 * Zainab Ali Ahmed: http://www.bna.bh/portal/en/news/459285.
 * Sajida Faisal: http://www.alwasatnews.com/3383/news/read/614451/1.html.
 * Abdulali Ali Ahmed: https://twitter.com/moi_bahrain/status/148292893977755649


 * This isn't necessarily a comprehensive list, however. The government may have denied some of the other deaths. Billmarczak (talk) 10:15, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * "Ali Alsheikh's injury is consistent w/ being struck by an unexploded tear gas canister at close range" means they attribute it to police. "issued a statement saying that burns (only found on his chest and arm) were inconsistent w/ tear gas" means they deny police did anything. Moved the rest as you requested. 2 new deaths today attributed to tear gas, one confirmed while the other is still fresh news, will add them while creating the article.

and when changing to numbers:

Bahraini Activist (talk) 15:55, 20 January 2012 (UTC)


 * So sad that security forces keep killing people. The government disputes both deaths.  It says the first death was the result of "a hereditary disease" (here) and the second was the result of "a drug overdose" (here).  As for Ali Alsheikh, what you said is one interpretation.  As stated in the BICI report, the government initially denied it was involved in the death, because the markings on Ali's body were inconsistent with a tear gas canister, and were consistent with blunt trauma.  The BICI forensic report found the opposite: that Ali was more likely hit with a tear gas canister than beaten to death.  Thinking like a pro-gov for a minute, here's another interpretation.  While BICI found that the government story about Ali's death was probably false, that does not automatically mean that the family's claim that Ali was shot by police is true.  Remember, there is no explicit statement in the BICI report like "the death of Ali Alsheikh is attributable to security forces."  In other words, the two claims (1) "Ali was shot by security forces," and (2) "Ali was not shot by security forces because injuries were inconsistent w/ tear gas" can both be false.  BICI found (2) false, but did not issue a finding on (1).  In this case, a finding that one statement is false does not automatically mean that the other is true.  For example, both of those could be false, and the truth could be (3) "Ali was not shot by security forces because he was shot by non-police thugs."


 * Anyway, I really do believe that security forces shot and killed Ali, and I'm not trying to defend them here, but I also believe that the BICI report didn't fully confirm that security forces were responsible for his death. Perhaps a more appropriate location would be "Security forces (allegedly)," because BICI found the government's dispute over Ali's death unfounded, without confirming the family's story about Ali being shot by security forces. Billmarczak (talk) 01:02, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I could still argue that only Bahrian security forces have access to tear gas.



To Human Rights Watch's knowledge, only Bahrain's security forces have access to the types of grenades that were thrown into the Rajab family's compound.

But I'd rather not, unless you think this is strong enough to remove any dispute. Using the same interpretation we could conclude that Sayed Hashim Saeed's death isn't disputed. So move Alsheikh from Security Forces to Security forces (allegedly) and Sayed Hashim from Disputed to Security Forces. Add the 2 recent deaths to Disputed. Final 2 tables:

* The government doesn't recognize most deaths that were attributed to the use of tear gas.

* A trial for 7 protesters accused of killing police is still going on.

Will work on Casualties of the 2011-2012 Bahraini uprising now. Bahraini Activist (talk) 04:01, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay, if you're okay with that, it's fine with me. Hope you don't feel that I bullied you into that decision, I was just trying to state a different interpretation.  By the way, related to your point about tear gas, check out this tweet by @moi_bahrain if you want to laugh!  Also, I think there might be one too many deaths in "Security forces (allegedly)."  The numbers in the bottom table sum to 61, whereas the numbers in the top table sum to 60, which I think is the correct number.  When you translated the bottom table from names to numbers, I think you accidentally added one too many to "Security forces (allegedly)."  Other than that, the tables look good. Billmarczak (talk) 05:23, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Fixed the numbers. By the way, tear gas canisters can be re-used sometimes, but not re-manufactured. I was told by a protester that those small black tear gas canisters sometimes don't explode when fired, due to rain or cold weather, so he collects them and heat them with a lighter before throwing them at police (look at this, this, this and read this topic for more info). But the point I was stressing is that protesters can't shot tear gas canisters as strong as causing death on impact as police weapons can. Back to topic, do you think I should include Arrested, Layoffs, Torture, Exiled and Students expelled to Casualties as I've done with the infobox? or should those be included in "Censorship and repression" in the main article? Bahraini Activist (talk) 07:39, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Wow, that's interesting about the tear gas! Thanks for the info, I didn't know that.  Yeah, I agree that there's no evidence that protesters have tear gas launchers.  However, there are some videos (such as this one) that seem to show people who do not appear to be police firing what appears to be tear gas at protesters.  As for your question, I think that those sections could go in either "casualties" or "censorship & repression."  However, usually when I think of casualties I think of physical injuries, so I'd say that deaths, torture, and injuries would fit better under "casualties" and arrests, layoffs, exiled, and expelled would fit better under "censorship & repression." Billmarczak (talk) 08:15, 21 January 2012 (UTC)