Talk:2011 Giro d'Italia

"Race overview"
I strongly discourage writing this section while the race is ongoing. The optimal time is right after the race ends (when the Giro is still fresh in our minds, and sources are easy to find, but we know the full context of everything that's happened). And to be blunt, I'm probably going to tear down whatever's there when I write such a section myself (I wrote all the substantial prose for the articles on the last four editions of the Giro, currently 3 GA's and 1 FA). But in any case, what we think is important today (Cavendish getting hosed) may not end up being important as soon as tomorrow. Green-eyed girl ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 01:12, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

What happened to the Wouter Weylandt piece? 46.129.11.19 (talk) 16:45, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Nothing. I added headers before writing the prose that will go under them, something I have always done when writing articles, whether literally or figuratively, from scratch. I just have not had the time to devote to this article that I would have liked, hence why it has been blank so long. Green-eyed girl  ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 06:28, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps this goes without saying
But I am planning major revisions and expansions to this page, after I finish up with the second stages page. I'm not telling anyone not to edit, far from it, but I think my track record speaks for itself (I was the primary writer for the articles on each of the last four editions of the Giro, all of them at GA or FA status). Think of this as a (hopefully) friendly reminder that the page will look very different when I'm done with it. Green-eyed girl ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 06:35, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Average speed
2 problems with this calculation.

The degree of accuracy is untenable. 0.019 km/h over the course of 84 hours is about 1.5km, or an error margin in the distance of each mass start stage of about 80m, although these distances are only recorded to the nearest km. This is a recurring problem with the level of accuracy of speed that we report on bike races.

The other issue is race specific. In the data for this race, the 216 km of stage four was recorded as having been travelled in 0 seconds, and stage 14 had its route changed twice. I don't recall ever seeing a final figure of the distance actually raced on that day other than approximations of where they were when they abandoned plan B of going up the Tualis.

Sorry, but in the circumstances, the current figure in that field of the infobox is not tenable, and I'm not sure that another would be fully verifiable. Kevin McE (talk) 20:58, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * All right then, I'll take it out. No big deal. Green-eyed girl  ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 23:35, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Xavier Tondo
Why has a connection been made between the death of Xavier Tondo and the 2011 Giro? I can't understand why anyone would think this belongs in a Giro 2011 article. The only connection is tenuous to say the least and as he wasn't riding in the Giro, nor was he killed whilst riding in the Giro, how has this connection been made? It seems to me that it has been put in simply to make the article more melodramatic and certainly takes away from the fact that Wouter Weylandt was actually killed during the course of the race. I'm not saying Tondo's death was any less traumatic than Weylandt's, just that it doesn't belong in this article. Sorry for not logging in - Ellie. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.200.116 (talk) 21:10, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe try reading the article? The impact Tondó's death had on the race is very clearly explained. Weylandt's death is duly given greater weight in the article, but Tondó's death is part of the story of this Giro. Green-eyed girl  ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 05:47, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for suggesting I read the article after a lot of heavy editing. I have to say, you are very ungracious in your responses to suggestions so I therefore shall not be coming back to this article or any others you edit as you seem to be under the impressions that they are "yours". Perhaps if you learn a few manners and a little etiquette then I may reconsider. Going back to my original suggestion, I repeat - I am still of the opinion that including Tondo's death as an actual part of the 2011 Giro is tenuous and grasps at desperation. By all means, mention him in the article in respect of the riders' tributes etc, but why have a paragraph headed "Tondo's Death" - it's misleading at the very least and does nothing to add to an article on the 2011 Giro. There is a separate page for Tondo - that is where this belongs and the editor of that page has not tried to make some weak link to the 2011 Giro. Maybe you should go and add this paragraph in there? Tondo's death is NOT a part of the story of this year's Giro and I find it terribly arrogant of you to insist it is. Ellie — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.144.182.70 (talk) 01:01, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Obvious troll is obvious. Buh bye. Green-eyed girl  ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 04:52, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Such an issue is not going to be a matter of right or wrong, and comes down to personal opinion as to where the balance lies, but I (as a Caisse d'Epargne/Movistar fan) think that it is probably disproportionate in this article. There is actually considerably more about his death and the response to it here than at his own article. I believe a sentence or two at the end of the Weylandt paragraph would suffice. Kevin McE (talk) 09:48, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The fact that there's less content in his own article has nothing to do with this one. Copy it wholesale, if you like. If you haven't noticed, I tend not to edit rider articles (I think Contador was the only one I've ever done much with) beyond keeping the current team accurate. I don't fancy myself a biographer, more of a reporter (and yes, I know neither of those terms, strictly speaking, are what we do here). I really don't think there's such a problem. The assertion by the uppity IP that Tondó's death had nothing at all to do with the Giro is just demonstratably false, and the (very short) section on him in this article speaks only to the direct effects it had on the race. So what exactly is the issue? Would you like for there to be more about Wouter? Because there certainly can be more written about him, just not that directly relates to this race. Tondó's death had an impact on the last six days of the race. Um...fact. I'm sure if someone else connected to cycling, but directly associated with this particular race, had died while it was being run, that would have as well. You can't really compare it to anything else – riders have died during competition before, but has a rider not in competition died during a major Tour before? Have two top-level riders died within two weeks of each other before? To take it out would remove something from the understanding of the race. Green-eyed girl  ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 10:38, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Calm down: I didn't suggest taking it out altogether. I think you have almost admitted that you tend to err on the side of a journalistic rather than purely encyclopaedic approach.  It is true that Tondo's death had nothing to do with the running of the Giro: it was marked during the event, but the death of Weylandt was marked by Farrar in the Tour, and the death of LL Sánchez' brother is marked every time he wins a stage.  I believe that a sentence or two would suffice: please don't take that as a personal affront.  Balance is a matter of opinion, opinions can respectfully differ. Let's see if anyone else has a view on the matter.  Kevin McE (talk) 11:38, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm fine. I don't take it as a personal affront, I just really, really strongly disagree. What would your "sentence or two" be, exactly? "Tondo died. Some people noticed." (an exaggeration) There's more to it than that. Green-eyed girl  ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 11:52, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Something like Movistar team member Xavier Tondo died at his home in Spain during the race. Stage wins by his compatriot Alberto Contador (stage 16) and his team mate Vasil Kiryienka (stage 20) were dedicated to him, and other respects were paid.  Or, use exactly the phrasing in the lead paragraph, moving it from there, which I would think to be part of the same issue of disproportionate treatment.  Kevin McE (talk) 12:57, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I just don't think that's enough, though we're chasing our tails at this point. But thank you at least for not saying "I can't understand why anyone would think this belongs in a Giro 2011 article" (because that's just asinine revisionism) Green-eyed girl  ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 16:50, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

"On abvious troll is obvious" - so in your eyes, a 'troll' is someone who disagrees or challenges part of 'your' article? No, I am not a troll of any description whatsoever - yes, I am someone who is concerned that far too much weight has been put on Tondo's death in relation to the 2011 Giro. The fact that there is now another opinion on this matters lends validity to this point. I did not once suggest that the whole Tondo part be removed, just that in it's entirety it does not belong in a 2011 Giro article. Yes, mention the fact that Tondo died and the riders' responses to that, but do not pretend that it's justified as is - this is not a journalistic article and you have readily admitted that you err on the side of journalism. As an editor of Wikipedia, I think a little professionalism in your responses would go a long way to improving discussion - after all, that is what this page is here for - discussion, not jibes at people who question the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.59.119.225 (talk) 13:11, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Do whatever you think is best. I've been done with this article for a few months now. I'm not gonna convince you, you're not gonna convince me. So either ask other people, or just do whatever you want. Green-eyed girl ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 05:15, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Length of the Zoncolan stage
An anonymous contributor edited in a length of 172 km for this stage. Does anyone know where this figure comes from? It should be cited, or removed. Green-eyed girl ( Talk  ·  Contribs ) 05:47, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Caption on race map
Hi. What do the different clour dots mean? And the different colour circles around the dots? Could someone who knows please include this information? Regards, Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 07:09, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Red dots are departure towns, green dots are arrival towns. Not sure what you mean by circles. Castelfidardo and Orvieto are both red and green because they're both an arrival town and a departure town. The fact that they're the only ones kind of shows how nutty Zomegnan was. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.160.130.14 (talk) 13:21, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100724043126/http://www.uci.ch/templates/BUILTIN-NOFRAMES/Template3/layout.asp?MenuId=MjExMw&LangId=1 to http://www.uci.ch/templates/BUILTIN-NOFRAMES/Template3/layout.asp?MenuId=MjExMw&LangId=1

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 07:41, 19 June 2017 (UTC)