Talk:2011 Msallata clashes/Archives/2011/December

Where is?
Where is this place? I look on Google maps and there are no mention of any of this names.--Vojvodae please be free to write :) 20:18, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=32.5825475&lon=14.0382957&z=10&l=5&m=b Grant bud (talk) 20:25, 6 August 2011 (UTC) Its also known as Al-Qusbat. Its located south west of Al-khums and Northwest of Tarhuna


 * Al Jazeera uses Qusbat here (http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-aug-6-2011-1455) though I didn't know it was Msallota until coming to this page. --Yalens (talk) 20:27, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Wait a minute
...isn't this the same Msallota that according to our old maps by Rafy apparently held out for awhile alone against Gaddafi back in the spring? --Yalens (talk) 20:29, 6 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It is. Back in the days there was a chaos, no one knew which cities are under who control. For example for a long time it was thought that Beni Walid was under NTC control although it wasn´t since Warfella tribe change its side in this conflict twice (and I guess that in coming weeks they´ll do the same thing once again). --EllsworthSK (talk) 22:25, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Name
I think "battle" at this point is a bit sensationalist. This seems more like a Tripoli or a Sabha than a Misrata or a Zawiyah. I'm going to go ahead and WP:BOLDly move this to 2011 Msallata clashes. If you have a serious reason to revert, do so. However, I'd like to request that your rationale be presented here for discussion. Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 20:34, 6 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay, that's good for me (clashes is).--Yalens (talk) 20:47, 6 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah I wasn't sure what to call it as information was rather limited. Clashes is definitely more appropriate as this looks more like Sabha than anything else. On the other hand, it should go back to Battle (or Siege) if the situation escalates. I would expect its likely going to end with local level negotiations, and my guess is that these clashes are the local leaders playing a trump card or two :)

UN mandate forces
I don't they should be included until we know they have, you know, participated in Msallota. --Yalens (talk) 20:48, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Same goes for National Liberation Army, which is also currently included. --93.139.149.241 (talk) 21:14, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Propose change of status: "Ongoing" to "Uncertain"
We have not heard of the town in any way that I know of for a at least 4 days (I suppose that's understandable since the Gaddafites cut all forms of contact to the town, but still). I'm thinking of Sabha here, though there are important differences (one being that Msallota was apparently a hotbed of anti-Gaddafism whereas Sabha had a pro-Gaddafi contingent present). I think the best way to put it would be "result uncertain" as we don't know what happened- if they are still fighting or if the Gaddafites did in fact take it. --Yalens (talk) 15:03, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, I'd also support waiting perhaps until a week has passed before making the actual change.--Yalens (talk) 15:04, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Or no "siege" actually took place so no "taking" of Msallata either... Call me a sceptic or whatever. But the initial reports by rebels were talking about "arrests", not "fighting" around the town. Only afterwards this was upgraded to "siege". 89.102.1.194 (talk) 16:42, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Name change
I propose a change of the title to 'Al Murgub District Clashes', or something of that sort, because the BBC has reported that Tarhuna has fallen to rebels ( 16:25 entry), and we might want to group the two uprisings together. Seleucus (talk) 18:03, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * If Msallata rebels and Tarhuna rebels collaborated, we might group it together, but if these are two separate uprisings, I would say two pages. And btw, what was the rational exactly for putting Msallata back on the green on the map (I'm sniffing OR here...)?--Yalens (talk) 21:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)