Talk:2011 NBA lockout

2011 NBA lockout
This is a recently developing story in NBA, and I wish to expand this article, if possible. Thanks! Please fix Stub/C Class article template. Expand as far and wide as possible, and put references. Maybe this could lead to something that helps Thanks. You are free to post stuff about this on my talk page. Thanks again, A comment by a person who has been editing Wikipedia since October 28, 2010. (talk) 05:35, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Complete Cancellation
A news story posted on ESPN.com tells that if a deal is not made by either next week, or a few weeks before the start of the regular season (November 1), Commissioner David Stern has threaten to cancel the entire season automatically, in order to prevent negotiations from being done during the regular season if games are cancelled.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/32128/david-sterns-scary-talk http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7031637/nba-lockout-owners-players-meet-friday-possibly-weekend

ElMeroEse (talk) 01:04, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Pan American Games
I'm not sure what's the relevance of Puerto Rican players taking part in Pan American Games with the lockout. Can someone enlighten me on this? — MT (talk) 03:44, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Shows what players are doing during lockout. If training camp was on, they wouldn't be able to participate since its in October.  This is as relevant as players in Drew/Goodman leagues, pickup games, and perhaps slightly more since its organized intl competition.—Bagumba (talk) 04:21, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I did not realize that, seems the lengthy lockout make me forgot that October is preseason month. I add a sentence to clarify this, it's uncited, but I think it should be fine. — MT (talk) 05:05, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Players impacted by insurance
If we are going to include text about insurance impacting the Olympics, it seems relevant to write that EuroBasket 2011 was mostly unaffected, but a few players did not play because of insurance. I propose to restore this deletion.—Bagumba (talk) 04:27, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I kinda agree with Bagumba on this. If the sentences are restored, I suggest we add some info about FIBA Americas, since the first sentence mentions that Argentina were able to insure their players. Anyway, Leandro Barbosa also skipped FIBA Americas due to personal and contractual reasons which mean that he has insurance issue. — MT (talk) 05:10, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a presumption that contractual means insurance. Or it could be literally an "excuse" as the article leaves open to interpretation.  It shouldn't be mentioned based solely off this source.—Bagumba (talk) 00:47, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, restore. I don't have an opinion on this.— Chris! c / t 20:50, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Info has been restored.—Bagumba (talk) 00:47, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Playing in home country
I'd suggest we put a cap on the players we list here. I suggest limiting it to All-Stars and official NBA award winners.—Bagumba (talk) 04:57, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I am planning to list only one player per country on this. So far there are a Brazilian, a French, a Spanish, an Italian, an Australian, a Russian, a Turkish and a Chinese player; I think these countries are quite well-known to produce notable NBA players. I'll stop adding any more players here unless some other big names (such as Nowitzki or one of the Argentinians) decided to return home. Anyway, feel free to make any changes to include only All-Stars/award winners or to trim down any non-notable player. Only one suggestion if we change the limit to All-Stars/award winners, perhaps high lottery pick such as Gallinari and Yi could still be included. — MT (talk) 06:22, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Since the list isnt meant to be exhaustive (it says "players such as ..."), I'm more thinking of the reader who might not know basketball, or is only interested in their homecountry, or their favorite NBA team's players. Chances are most readers wont care that only a few players are listed, and would probably appreciate that the list was limited to players that they mostly recognize.  I think only a big NBA fan would know where these players were drafted. My choice is semi-arbitrary but determinant to (hopefully) avoid edit wars in future. We could consider updating the transactions page to note players playing in home country. —Bagumba (talk) 06:42, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've removed Mills, Yi and Gallinari. Fernandez is still there because he was named to All-Rookie Team. — MT (talk) 06:54, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Yi is interesting, since the CBA previously said it didnt allow opt-outs but he apparently got one. Home country exemption?—Bagumba (talk) 07:02, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * He would probably has an exemption because China wants him to keep playing in the NBA. However, since most of the news sources came from China and did not mention any details about his exemption, I think we shall wait for some more coverage by U.S. media before adding it here, though it might not be relevant at all because this exemption would only affect one player. — MT (talk) 07:09, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * When Bryant was rumored to be going to China, I remember reading an article saying teams in CBA are notorious for not following rules, so the no opt-out rule probably didnt hold much weight. Unfortunately, I cant find it now to add.—Bagumba (talk) 07:22, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems like the no opt-out rule only affects foreign players (as cited in here), Sporting News confirmed that because Yi is Chinese national he can have the opt-out clause in his contract. — MT (talk) 18:05, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Listification
Why is it a problem to listify the people? It's much better to show a complete list rather than include some names in a big paragraph. (LAz17 (talk) 17:30, 12 October 2011 (UTC)).


 * A complete list of more than 70 players will take too much space and it's already listed in List of 2011–12 NBA season transactions. — MT (talk) 17:47, 12 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Wow, I didn't think it was already listed. Nice, thanks! By the way, could you add Morrison on the list? (LAz17 (talk) 18:21, 12 October 2011 (UTC)).


 * Well, the link to the list was already in one of the big paragraph, but I just realize that it's quite hard to find the link in there, so I add the See also under the header to help readers find the list. Thanks for pointing out this out. About Morrison, there are already a discussion whether he should be included or not in Talk:List of 2011–12 NBA season transactions. Perhaps you can give your input on the discussion there. — MT (talk) 18:33, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not a big fan of "See also" if it can be included in prose. I hate clicking on "See also"s just to find out I already clicked on that page in the body. This is also consistent with WP:SEEALSO. Instead of the current "More than 70 players have decided to sign with foreign teams ...", would it be have been more obvious to have "More than 70 players have decided to sign with foreign teams ..."? Other ideas to avoid it being overlooked?—Bagumba (talk) 18:50, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I think WP:SEEALSO talks about the section called See also and not about the hatnote, but I do agree that the See also:... hatnote does not really fit in there. If you don't mind, I would like to leave it there for a few days to see whether there is a significant increase in page view for the List of 2011–12 NBA season transactions before we decide whether to relocate the link back into the prose. There other alternative hatnotes are Template:See (Further information:...) and Template:Mainlist (For a more comprehensive list, see...). Right now I'm going with the latter while also trying to restructure the Players' alternative section by separating them into Going overseas and Other alternatives. I'll try to expand the latter section with more info on the other exhibition games. Feel free to make any change. — MT (talk) 03:44, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess I was wrong, there is no significant increase in the page view for List of 2011–12 NBA season transactions after the hatnote was added. So, shall the hatnote be removed? — MT (talk) 17:21, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I say keep the hatnote and remove the link buried in the text.— Chris! c / t 17:55, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say remove the hatnote, with weak support to keep both.—Bagumba (talk) 18:15, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I'm indifferent where the link should be since both the hatnote and the link in prose have minimal effect on the transactions' page view. Anyway, I moved the hatnote to the bottom of the table, probably more suited if a reader looking at the table wants to see the more comprehensive list, any thoughts? — MT (talk) 04:42, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The table heading is "NBA All-Stars signing overseas", and the note says "For a more comprehensive list, see ..." Almost sounds like there are more All-Star in the other list.  Not sure how to improve that note, as it will look clutter if more words are added.  I cant think of alternative that isnt longer and doesnt stretch table more.—Bagumba (talk) 09:03, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Made minor change in the note to prevent misunderstanding, but it stretch the table a little bit. — MT (talk) 10:30, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
 * LAz17: Sorry if you missed the edit summary on the change you reverted or if it was unclear.—Bagumba (talk) 18:39, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Contraction
If the lockout persist throughout the season, some teams may be forced to contract (contraction in sports is where the league folds a team). One team that may be put into contraction is the Sacramento Kings, who were on the verge of moving to Anaheim. A link to the podcast (hosted by the Kamenetzky Bros. on ESPN) can be found here:

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/23083/podkast-with-colin-hanks-dexter-bay-area-sports-and-the-sacramento-kings

Refer to the time marker 10:18.

ElMeroEse (talk) 18:42, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Unsupported synthesis about MLS
IP from Houston has restored text about MLS being boosted by NBA. Can someone provide the relevant quotes that support and correlation between MLS attendance and the NBA.—Bagumba (talk) 03:47, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Complete Cancellation (UPDATE)
Whenever decertification is announced, the likelihood of a full or partial season is shot. Well, you can pretty much unofficially announce the death of the NBA and the 2011-12 season, as the players have decided to decertify the NBPA under disclaimer of interest. Here's the links:

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/cba_news/2011/11/14/20111114_nbpa_presser_opening_statement.nba/ (Official NBPA Press Conference) http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7234180/nba-lockout-players-not-accept-deal-seek-decertify-billy-hunter-says (ESPN Report)

ElMeroEse (talk) 20:30, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Should we list key dates/or have a timeline in a box next to the text?
I think it is a good idea because readers can view key info without having to read the wall of text. Any thoughts?— Chris! c / t 02:32, 17 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I think having a timeline would be nice. It would give readers a summary of the significant events during the lockout without having to read the whole article. — MT (talk) 04:31, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. It was on my to-do list to model this article after something like World War II.  The current format of listing things chronologically caused topics like hard/flex caps, mid level exceptions, large/small markets owners, etc. to be scattered.  At the same time, its good to have a timeline to see how things happened.  Once we get a timeline, we can start breaking out existing text into appropriate topics.  In addition to pulling the timeline out from the WP article, we can also use http://www.nba.com/2011/news/09/09/labor-timeline/index.html and http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/9556/the-nba-lockout-timeline to see if we have missed anything —Bagumba (talk) 05:54, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I was thinking of creating a box with a brief timeline like the box listing the victims of the Virginia Tech massacre. As for reorganizing the article, I think that is something that should be done in the future.— Chris! c / t 19:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

So this is what I had in mind. I know we are not a news site per WP:NOTNEWS, but I would like to add a day counter. I think it is informative to reference how much time has passed since it all begins.— Chris! c / t 01:19, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Seem too small. Whereas the victims in the massacre are mostly just FYI as they are not generally notable on their own, I think a lot of people would look at the lockout timeline and perhaps skim the rest of the article, esp if we dont get too bogged down with details.—Bagumba (talk) 01:40, 18 November 2011 (UTC)


 * What about this? I just feel that a table is too large. I think having it on the side is better since readers have the choice to either read the article or look at the timeline.— Chris! c / t 02:31, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not tied to the current format of the table in the article, but not sure it needs to be miniaturized either. I didnt want to follow Timeline standards though.  I guess I see the timeline vs lockout topics as two distinct but equally valid ways to want to read about this years later.  On the one hand, if I'm interested in the issues, I dont want to be constrained by seeing things developed chronologically.  On the other hand, topics wont show cause and effect of the sequence of events.  The other point is what granularity of events do we want to show in a timeline.  Very high level, or things like "midlevel exception was tenatively agreed on this day".—Bagumba (talk) 03:44, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Timeline standards applies to timeline articles, so we don't need to follow it for timeline within articles. I recognize that timeline vs lockout topics being distinct but equally valid ways to present the events. That is precisely why we need a brief timeline in the article, so that readers can still see things chronologically even after the whole article is reorganized. As for what kind of events to list in the timeline, I envision having only the very high level things.— Chris! c / t 04:08, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

NBA Revolt
Are there plans of adding a section for backlash from the world? I've watched videos made by fans and posted to YouTube, read articles from reputable news media, and heard audio commentaries from news personalities on ESPN, and they are all sharing a united sentiment: they are all mad at the NBA. Disgusted, disgraced, and angry over the billionaires vs. millionaires topic. Besides businesses, arenas, and television stations, the overall number of fans and workers around the markets are the ones who will truly feel the sting during the lockout - Latinos especially.

Although Obama has clearly stated that the government will not intervene, there is a rumor that when the players and owners do go to court, the FBI may choose to open up an investigation of their own.

At this time, please do not consider my comments in this section as fact. There are factual evidence that may support or add up to my claims, but right now, it is just too early to tell. What I want to know is if whether the Backlash section is necessary for this article. ElMeroEse (talk) 02:43, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Any mention would need to be based on reliable sources and given proper weight. If you think they are met, be bold and add it.—Bagumba (talk) 20:39, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Then would you give me permission to compose a link list of all videos, commentaries and articles related to the revolt? If anyone wants to contribute to the list, they may. Anything to build up a strong paragraph/section for the NBA Lockout article, because I think what's going to happen is that the league's reputation will be tarnished beyond repair. Usually, we wait until after the event is resolved, but since this is an ongoing situation (like with the 2011 Sendai Earthquake), I believe we should keep tabs on this.
 * One note: should they be posted here, or on my Wikipedia account? Someone has to sift through the rubble and pick out the right diamonds if this article is going to be worth anything. ElMeroEse (talk) 01:44, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You can list them here for other editors to see and use if they want to add anything, or you can add the information to the article by yourself. Please make sure that the sources are reliable and neutral. — MT (talk) 08:13, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Very well. Then what I will do is make a new section below entitled NBA Revolt Links. Anybody can use them in any way they wish as long as your rules as met. If you happen to find an unreliable source, instead of deleting it, please move it to my account (there will be a Rejected Links section) and state a reason. This way, I'll be able to avoid such links in the future. Should I still sign my name for all the links I find, even though I won't be directly involved in writing the article? ElMeroEse (talk) 17:20, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

NBA Revolt Links
At this time, please post articles, videos and podcasts with dates on or beyond November 14, 2011, the day the NBPA decertified into a trade association. That date signaled disgust from fans and mainstream media from all across the world. This section will be updated every so often. ElMeroEse (talk) 07:04, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Articles
Probasketball: In Fighting For Final Dollars... Probasketball: Don't Expect President Obama... Probasketball: Can Decertification Mean... Probasketball: Only Hope For NBA Season... Ball Don't Lie: Cheers To The Players... [http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AsW13AvdiczHm8Api_R7zvK8vLYF?slug=ap-nbalabor-legalissues Yahoo! Sports: Tough Legal Fight Ahead] LA Times Lakers Blog: NBA Lockout Union Disband Hoopspeak: What's This Really All About... ESPN Land O Lakers: NBPA Raises The Ante... Sports Illustrated: NBA Players Disband... NBA: Morning Tip - After Rejection Lakers Nation: Lockout Has Major Impact... Lake Show Life: NBA Season Dying... LA Times Lakers Blog: Uninformed Players... CNBC: NBA Players Make $3.3 Billion Bet... CBS Eye On Basketball Blog: For Players, It's Become Too Emotional CBS Eye On Basketball Blog: Lockout Is NBA's Revenge For Big 3 and Melo Hoopspeak: Glad To See This CBA Rejected Lakers Nation: Fans Again Are Overlooked... Probasketball: One Man's Suggestions... LA Times Lakers Blog: Five Things... ESPN Land O Lakers: Disclaimer Of Interest Reaction... Silver Screen And Roll: Outs Are In Short Supply Probasketball: Iron Shiek Tells NBA To Stop Being Greedy CBS Eye On Basketball Blog: Players Taking Wrong Approach CBS Sports: NBA Legal Fight Could Be Disaster... Lake Show Life: Downtown L.A. Out $3 Million A Day... Fox Sports South: Backlash Won't Be Severe... AOL Sporting News: NBA's Collateral Damage NBA: Labor Talks - Bleak Outlook Ahead Grantland: Business vs. Personal ESPN 5-on-5: What Lies Ahead... ESPN 5-on-5: Who Deserves Most Blame... ESPN 5-on-5: Experts Answers Fans' NBA Questions (Question 5 only) OC Register: Player Agents Put NBA Season In Peril [http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aj1qI02UYsajJy4sxrl09vq8vLYF?slug=ap-ataleoftwolockouts Yahoo! Sports: Unlike NFL Lockout...] NY Times: TV Stations Scramble For Shows... CBS Sports: Players Missed Shot In Lockout... Searching For Slava (Blogspot): The Rainmaker NBA: Labor Talks - Paul Pierce Clears The Air Miami Herald: For Poor And Hungry... Bleacher Report: BRI Ended Up Being B.S. FoxSports: Ron Artest/Metta World Peace Tweets... Bleacher Report: Who Are The Real Losers... Bleacher Report: Top 5 Reasons Fans Will Not Forgive... Bleacher Report: Open Letter To NBPA VP Etan Thomas NBA: President Clinton, The NBA Needs You... LA Times Lakers Blog: There Must Be 2011-12 Season LA Times Lakers Blog: League Needs To Stop... News OK: NBA Players Need To Realize... LA Times Lakers Blog: NBA Fans Organize NBAFanifesto Probasketball: Politicians Grandstanding... [http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/id/7273866/nba-solve-financial-problems-contracting-teams ESPN: NBA Could Solve Financial Problems By... Contraction]

Videos
(Some videos will come from YouTube, an unreliable source to many.) NBA: Interview With Billy Hunter NBA: ESPN Interview With David Stern Probasketball: Lockout Has Damaged The Game

NBC: People Of The NBA Lockout (uploaded by SubscribeNews)

Audio/Podcasts
(90% will come from ESPN. I don't know how they handle audio podcasts, but they don't last long. Please download these as quickly as possible before they are removed from the site.) ESPN: Stephen A. Smith - November 14, Hr. 1 ESPN: Stephen A. Smith - November 15, Hr. 1 ESPN: Stephen A. Smith - November 15, Hr. 2 (NBA Lockout segments only) ESPN: Stephen A. Smith - November 16, Hr. 2 (NBA Lockout segments only)

Question
The last sentence of the lead says:
 * "The lockout will remain in effect until the National Basketball Players Association (NBPA) reaches a deal with the NBA owners."

Now that the NBPA has dissolved and will no longer conducting any talks with the owners, is this sentence still correct? — MT (talk) 03:47, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://blog.timesunion.com/collegesports/ubiles-agent-pro-career-next-for-pan-am-winner/11645/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://tvtv.com/NHL-could-have-sporting-spotlight-as-NBA-lockout-d/7687730?newsId=105645
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.businessweek.com/printer/lifestyle/will-nbas-loss-be-nhls-gain-10142011.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/college/basketball/view.bg?articleid=1372675
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-10-21/nba-lockout-will-not-help-college-hoops
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://moneyland.time.com/2011/11/07/the-nba-lockout-and-the-economy-an-overstated-impact/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/7296919/nba-facilities-open-thursday-agents-begin-negotiate-teams-according-sources
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7311353/nba-free-agency-courting-start-monday-sources-say
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.suntimes.com/sports/basketball/bulls/9102076-579/nbas-66-game-schedule-is-definitely-hectic.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/07/sports/basketball/nba-schedule-a-cram-course-for-teams.html?_r=1
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.foxsports.com.au/other-sports/basketball/boston-celtics-coach-doc-rivers-la-clippers-star-blake-griffin-discuss-impact-of-shortened-nba-season/story-e6frf3f3-1226341578871
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/tim-duncan-missed-sunday-night-spurs-game-because-081218158.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-05-14/NBA-playoff-trauma-with-Derrick-Rose-Chris-Bosh-injuries/54964494/1
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-05-09/baron-davis-dwight-howard-derrick-rose-injury-david-stern-nba-playoffs-injuries

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 13:02, 22 September 2016 (UTC)