Talk:2011 World Rally Championship

MINI / Prodrive
Okay, so the exact nature of the MINI-Prodrive arrangement seems to be unclear. Some people seem to think it should be listed as MINI, others - myself included - believe it should be Prodrive. Some third parties are lobbying for "MINI/Prodrive" to satisfy everyone. Since it's a cause for contention, I'm putting this here to discuss the way it should be represented.

My case is this: the team should be listed as Prodrive because we do not know the extent of MINI's involvement. It could well be that the team is intended to be the official MINI World Rally Team, but at the same time it could just as easily be a case of Prodrive looking to re-enter the championship and doing so with the Countryman. We have no confirmed details about this relationship, other than that it will be Prodrive running the MINI Countryman. Therefore, to call the team "MINI/Prodrive" would fall under the category of original research because it is inventing a name for something. Likewise, to simply refer to it as "MINI" is an unsourced addition. And so we are therefore obligated to call it "Prodrive", at least until we get confirmation of the official team name. The objective of Wikipedia is to be the most complete archive of knowledge available to man. Based on the information available to us, the name "Prodrive" is the most complete because it has evidence to support it.

Also, to Gedwards: I very specifically asked you to stop changing the name in the table until such time as we had confirmation of the name, and that repeated edits would consitute vandalism since you made edits to a page after being asked not to, knowing that the information you were adding was incorrect. You were asked to stop on the article history page, you were asked to stop on your talk page, and now you're being asked to stop on an article discussion page. If you edit the table again, with the knowledge that what you are adding is false or misleading, I will have no choice but to report you for vandalism. I don't want to do it - but don't think that I won't. Please stop, at least until we come to a consensus on the matter. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 12:57, 29 July 2010 (UTC)


 * By listing it as Prodrive/MINI or MINI/Prodrive is not 'inventing the name' (like MINI World Rally Team would be). It is simply naming the two organisations involved in the entry. This is the official MINI team, as shown by the fact that the announcement was made by BMW/MINI in Munich and not Prodrive - see the official BMW/MINI press release here, this is the same release that Prodrive have copied and placed on their website. The entry will be made by MINI, not by Prodrive, in the same way that Subaru's entries were made by Subaru and not by Prodrive. Therefore we should list it as MINI/Prodrive. This is the same as in the World Touring Car Championship with Chevrolet (who enter the team) and RML (who build and run the cars). The entry name is Chevrolet, not even Chevrolet Racing or something like that. - mspete  93  13:11, 29 July 2010 (UTC)


 * But how involved are MINI? Are they simply submitting the entry and providing the cars, or do they intend to make a full team out of it? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:13, 30 July 2010 (UTC)


 * From the nature of the releases I'm pretty sure this is a full-blown entry, similar to the Subaru/Prodrive effort. When the Subaru team withdrew it was Subaru's decision, not Prodrive's, and the same would happen with MINI in that situation. MINI/Prodrive is not a made up name or original research, it is the names of the two organisations responsible for the entry. Besides, technically Prodrive are manufacturing the cars rather than MINI, they are just badged as MINIs, but it will be entered by MINI in Munich (and their money) but with Prodrive running the entry, if that makes sense. It's difficult to find a comparison with F1 really.


 * I'm going to put MINI/Prodrive in if you don't mind, because that is a good compramise between your views and the views of other users, and clearly shows the two parties involved in both developing the cars and running the team. - mspete  93  09:46, 30 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I do mind, because we don't know the full extent of MINI's involvement. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 12:36, 30 July 2010 (UTC)


 * We may not know the full extent but we know they are heavily involved and for marketing reasons I cannot see why they would not feature MINI in the name of the team. Prodrive's name rarely appears in their entries, particularly when involved with a manufacturer like this. I am not saying we should disply just 'MINI' in the table, MINI/Prodrive should suit all parties, just what exactly is wrong with it? As I said, both will be involved in the running of the team, so list both names. This article is suggesting that it was MINI/BMW's decision to join the WRC, not Prodrive's. I can't understand why you have doubts. - mspete  93  14:16, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Would somebody mind explaining to User:Gedwards1990 that the use of the name Prodrive is perfectly acceptable here? He doesn't seem to be able to understand this, and is trying to get moderators involved for the sake of him winning an argument. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 11:56, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If the Ford team is shown with a USA flag then surely MINI should be shown with the German flag? When Prodrive ran the Subaru team it was shown with the Japanese flag. Bjmullan (talk) 19:59, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Can't see Mini being promoted as a German brand to be honest. - mspete  93  22:03, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 * No sure Pete if that matters. Ford Europe/UK don't promote a USA brand but they are an American company. I'm easy either way, really just asking the question as I know in the pass I have reverted people who change Ford to being UK. Bjmullan (talk) 09:12, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Dani Sordo
Will drive for Mini —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.203.111.151 (talk) 19:01, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

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