Talk:2012–13 snooker season

Flagicon vs. flagathlete in Players section
What the hell is your problem to change. It's rediculous. Flagathlete is so much better than flagicon for all sorts of reasons such as allowing people to workout what we are looking at as many nationalities have similar flags — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.100.234.199 (talk) 20:18, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's not a good reason to use flagathlete, because most of the people, that can distinguish the flags also don't for what the 3 letter codes stand. Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0  20:21, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Therefore keeping up with flagicon is futile as well. I'd rather use flag everywhere, but you shortened it in the table to the three letter coding therefore on that bases flagathlete should be used. 2.100.234.199 (talk) 20:23, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's also not a good reason. I shortened it the table to flags, because it doesn't brake the table. Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0  20:25, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I think therefore you should undo what you did in the table then. Since you can not come up with a reasonable solution nor a valid arguement. Flag everywhere in my view. 2.100.234.199 (talk) 20:27, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Undo to flagicon or what? The table looks horrible with full country names. Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0  20:30, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't see the point here. On the one hand due to MOS you have to use flag in the table, which YOU shortened to GBR for example instead of having Great Britain, and then stated for not using flagathlete that the same people who don't know a flag will also not know the three letter code. So which one is it Armbrust you're being indecisive.2.100.234.199 (talk) 20:34, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * What about adding a legend box for flags to the section instead of using flagathlete? Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0  20:35, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hell no! Might as well just use flag instead of eating by more bites.2.100.234.199 (talk) 20:38, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Than let's wait, what others think about this. Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0  20:39, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You can request for a 3rd opinon or resquest for comment if you want-- Lerd the nerd wiki defender  20:43, 12 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Fixed it. 🇮🇷 Hossein Vafaei (IRN) just write the full country name instead of using the three letter code it comes out like this. What do you think 2.100.234.199 (talk) 20:44, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That it would look absolutely horrible in the article. Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0  20:46, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * But the best solution you're going to get. Unless you know a better template2.100.234.199 (talk) 20:53, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I think flagicon is the best solution. Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0  20:55, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well that's just dumb and sums you up. 2.100.234.199 (talk) 20:58, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * And that's response is very arrogant. Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0  21:00, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Just like you.2.100.234.199 (talk) 21:06, 12 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Try to be civil both of you-- Lerd the nerd wiki defender  21:14, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've requested 3rd opinion for both of you as I cant help here-- Lerd the nerd wiki defender  20:49, 12 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I think a flag key would be the most effective compromise; you don't need the country's name alongside every flag, but there probably should be something in the article so that readers can identify the flags. Betty Logan (talk) 12:39, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Totally agree with the IP. Flagathlete much better. Spc 21 (talk) 15:37, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Because? Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  15:39, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
 * As I said – totally agree with all the IP's opinions. Spc 21 (talk) 16:00, 14 May 2012 (UTC)


 * thats not a reason-- Lerd the nerd wiki defender  16:45, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course it's a reason. I second everything the IP had to say. Spc 21 (talk) 22:44, 19 May 2012 (UTC)


 * no Betty Logan gave a persuasive argument for why she wanted a flag key, you appear to be suggesting a strawman argument-- Lerd the nerd wiki defender  18:14, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * +1 to the IP. Spc 21 (talk) 18:24, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

+1 to Armbrust. I much prefer the flagicon use. You can see the country's full name on mouseover, so anyone not familiar with the flags can learn their meaning that way - and everyone else is not inconvenienced by additional text. I'd actually prefer the flagicon option for the location column of the table as well. Kabrada (talk) 08:32, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

yes the description is needed as not everyone knows the flags of all countries in the world like thailand and malta — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.199.245.66 (talk) 20:06, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but it's better addressed with a flag legend table. Already added. What do you say. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  20:15, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * i fail to see any previous talk on here about a "flag legend" you shouldnt add things that have no consensus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.199.245.66 (talk) 20:17, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * That is also true for you. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  20:19, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * i think you need to read the talk page here. people are confused about flags and we must do something to help them. ive done exactly what was asked
 * There is however no consensus on how to do it. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  20:21, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

so what happens when there is no consensus. you decide? who put you in charge of a free encyclopedia where anyone is welcome to add to it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.199.245.66 (talk) 20:23, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You're free to add it if there is consensus for it. Also if you add it, it doesn't mean it will stay forever. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  20:24, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * yes you have seen my point in that your non consensus view will not be staying. please can we get a consensus please — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.199.245.66 (talk) 20:26, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * If you agree to the "Flag legend" table, than yes. BTW this was already mentioned in this discussion. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  20:28, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

i was agree that countries in brackets looks so much good. if you agree type 'yes i agree' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.199.245.66 (talk) 20:30, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * My opinion is that they look ugly. Why isn't the "Flag legend" acceptable? Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  20:32, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

thank you for accepting my change and agreeing that what i did was the best way forward. took some time for you to agree but we got there — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.199.245.66 (talk) 20:34, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't know what you mean. I have not accepted you change, which makes the article looks ridiculous. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  20:37, 14 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Personally I thought the flag legend was a perfect acceptable compromise for readers who are not familiar with the flags. Adding the countries just clutters up the article. Betty Logan (talk) 22:34, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I never saw that in the history of the reverts. It certainly seems acceptable to me and should fulfill the requirements of MOS:FLAG. Ryan Vesey 22:37, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I will stick it in then. It seems like an effective compromise until this issue is resolved one way or the other. Betty Logan (talk) 22:42, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Compromise
The possibility of a flag legend was mooted above, which I think offers a reasonable solution and Ryan above seemingly agrees. MOS:FLAG does require that the name of a flag's country (or province, etc.) should appear adjacent to the first use of the flag icon, as virtually no readers are familiar with every flag, and many flags differ only in minor details. However it also states the country name may be omitted if a flag appears with its country name earlier in a list or table. Personally I think a legend satisfies these requirements, resulting in this, which I find more digestible than the the version with the country names after each name. Is anyone opposed to having the flag legend, or can we put this debate to bed? Betty Logan (talk) 22:54, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I support the addition of the flag legend table. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  21:45, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Players not entering
RE: the start of the season, it seems that in the first two events, more players have opted not to enter events than in any other season, Higgins, O'Sullivan and one or two others have all not entered the first two events for one reason or another, this is fairly significant compared to previous seasons where people not entering events was usually for either illness or specific personal reasons, players are starting pick and chose what events they enter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.203.254.3 (talk) 01:34, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * However we don't know (except O'Sullivan), why they didn't enter. Also players with "illness or specific personal reasons" had entered the events, but withdrew from them. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  08:00, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, my point however was that there are more top 16 players not entering than at any previous time, and we're not talking about PTC events here, we're talking propoer ranking events, yes it may be "Illness" etc, but it is becoming a trend taht players are picking and chosen which events to enter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.203.254.1 (talk) 17:07, 25 June 2012‎
 * If you have reliable sources which discuss this, than feel free to add it. Otherwise please don't. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  17:15, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I added it and now it's been deleted? why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.203.254.1 (talk) 19:43, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The part, which was removed, isn't in the reference. Only the dates of the Australian Goldields Open are in the reference and the part with Ali Carter, which isn't relevant there. (Place it on the Ali Carter article if you want.) The other part was just relocated to an other part of the article. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  19:47, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You've deleted the whole thrust of the point though, you said to add it if I had a refference, I did and it should stay. The point is snooker is changing and players are chosing which events they enter as per the refference stating players are becomming more picky due to the expansion of the season, Why do you feel the need to delete important points? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.203.254.1 (talk) 19:53, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The "Before the start of the season, World Snooker requested every player to sign a players contract that would allow players to choose which events they want to enter - no player is forced to play in any event." is in the lead now. (Search for it if you don't believe me.) The "in the Australian Goldfields open 7 of the top 16 players chose not to enter the event in a sign that some players are beginning to be picky about which events they enter" part isn't in the reference you provided. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  19:56, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Snookerbacker is a blog and not reliable. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  20:10, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Stop, this is ridiculous
Personally, I prefer naming the country in parenthesis over the roll over the flag comment. I'd prefer nothing (no country in parenthesis and no comment) over anything. Ryan Vesey 21:03, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I prefer that too. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  21:06, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * see your edits have no consensus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.199.245.66 (talk) 21:10, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No, your's doesn't have. Ryan Vesey says he prefers the section without country in parenthesis. Why you can't accept that and stop reverting. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  21:16, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I said I preferred the country in parenthesis to not including the country but including a comment about rolling over the flag. My ultimate preference, though, would be for neither the country nor the comment to appear.  I checked 2012 Wimbledon Championships – Gentlemen's Singles and no country is given.  (On another note, if a country is given, it should not be linked per WP:OVERLINK) Ryan Vesey 21:19, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Exactly as Ryan Vesey says, these format is used on hundreds of articles. Why is it, that it only bothers you on this page? Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  21:23, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

i dont revert. u revert. i add what is right but u disrupt me
 * You say "is right", but it isn't. Also to edit war you don't need to revert.  Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII  <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  21:18, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

why is what you say right? no consensus to support you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.199.245.66 (talk) 21:21, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The page initially didn't include this. If you want to include them, than you need consensus for it. If there is consensus for an edit, than there is no need for consensus to revert it. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  21:29, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * That's not true. Thousands of Bold edits are made every day.  You cannot continue reverting the edit solely for lack of consensus unless there are blatant violations.  I don't feel that the previous discussion resulted in consensus one way or the other. Ryan Vesey 21:33, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * That's partly true, but if somebody reverts, than it means there is no consensus for the edit. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  21:35, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

i ask again. who put u in charge? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.199.245.66 (talk) 21:31, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you don't understanding or don't want to understand, what I'm saying. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  21:32, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

u talk about a consensus. so yes i have changed it to what the consensus wants. it is done
 * What consensus? There is no consensus for this change. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  21:36, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

please can you show me the consensus for your changes back
 * There is no need for consensus to change back an edit, which doesn't have consensus. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  21:38, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

exactly so stop changing my edit which has a consensus to something which does not. thankyou for seeing i am right
 * No you're not right. As your edit doesn't have consensus, I don't consensus to revert it. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  21:40, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Country names
It certainly does appear that the country names should be included per MOS:FLAG. In this case, I have replaced flagicon with flag for the time being. A better, long term solution may be to reformat them as a table. Ryan Vesey 22:29, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Betty, as a comment on your most recent revert, you restored a version that was unacceptable according to the manual of style. Ryan Vesey 22:39, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It was an intermediate step. I've added a flag legend which I believe is consistent with the MOSFLAG. See my comments above for more details. Betty Logan (talk) 22:59, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * What would be consistent with MOSFLAG is to not use flags at all since none of these players represent their country in any significant way. They represent themselves. Drmies (talk) 23:16, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually that is not strictly true in snooker. You have to belong your country's national snooker association to take professional membership with the WPBSA, and you have to retain your membership with them. So while you do not strictly represent your country, you do represent a national association of a country in competition. Betty Logan (talk) 23:21, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I was going to ask about that; however, I feel like an RfC on MOS:FLAG might be more appropriate. In this case, it doesn't seem to abide by de facto consensus.  Consider 2012 Masters Tournament, in that and almost all other articles involving international competition, a flag is used. Ryan Vesey 23:22, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * In coverage of the tour qualification the WPBSA omits the nationalities for the PTC/Q-School qualifiers but includes them for the NGB nominations (the national governing bodies). If there were an RfC it would invariably conclude that countries are notable where the WSA themselves list them and not notable otherwise (see 2012/13 Tour Players (DOC)) Betty Logan (talk) 23:35, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, Betty, it is strictly true, it's just not tacitly enforced. It's not like there's a selection process by the national association. Ryan, all these sports articles use their plethora of flags all over the place, and usually in violation of MOSFLAG. Tacit consensus is against the proper application of MOSFLAG (itself the result of consensus), so I am really pissing in the wind, and anyone else who calls upon MOSFLAG while violating it (as in this case, and on Armbrust's talk page) is, well, editing with one eye closed. Drmies (talk) 23:41, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

General Cup
Can't find much information on this, but according to Neil Robertson's website he beat Ricky Walden 7–6 to win the tournament. Betty Logan (talk) 21:09, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * And even that is from his Twitter account. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  21:20, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If you need results: These are from @Deco800_ and @LeeGorton1 (Twitter):

GROUP A

5 Liang Wenbo 5-2 Fung Kwok Wai

7 Neil Robertson 5-2 Liang Wenbo

9 Neil Robertson 3-5 Fung Kwok Wai

GROUP B

6 Ricky Walden 5-3 Tian Pengfei

8 Mark Davis 5-3 Tian Pengfei

10 Ricky Walden 5-2 Mark Davis

WILD CARD ROUND

1 Liang Wenbo beat Cheng Yin Lun

2 Tian Pengfei beat Lau Ka Lam

3 Barry Hawkins 2-4 Fung Kwok Wai

4 Mark Davis beat Chan Ka Kin--Mics147 (talk) 15:14, 15 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Prize Money: winner 120,000 r/u 60,000. High break 15,000. Group 2nd and 3rd 20,000. Century break 2,000 (only one I know was Robo 104). There was a 180,000 bonus for 147. Group prize money excluded wildcards (@Deco800_, Twitter) --Mics147 (talk) 15:20, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Twitter isn't a reliable source and therefore it can't be used. Armbrust, B.Ed. <sup style="color:#E3A857;">WrestleMania XXVIII <sub style="color:#008000;">The Undertaker 20–0  15:24, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Snooker season 2019/2020 which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:17, 3 January 2020 (UTC)