Talk:2012 Chevrolet Detroit Belle Isle Grand Prix

The recent article expansion
Why such a radical departure of the article table layouts and stylings from the standard layout that has been in force for several years, particular without notice at WP:AOWR?  TheChrisD  Rants • Edits 10:44, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I disagree that there is a "radical departure" at all. I appreciate there were a few major visual changes, but these were primarily necessitated by the Manual of Style. For example, I would guess the two major changes were the removal of the flags from the tables; MOS:FLAG suggests that flags should "not emphasize nationality without good reason". The drivers are not representing their countries in IndyCar, so the inclusion of a flag seems to me to be no more necessary than a symbol next to the female drivers to indicate that they are female! MOS:FLAG also states that the country name should be included along with the flag; for example, how many people can differentiate the New Zealand and Australian flags at that size for Scott Dixon and Will Power? Additionally, I have removed the car colours from the "Number" box: this was inline with WP:COLOR: numerous of the colour combinations would mean that partially blind or colour blind people would be unable to read the numbers because of the low level of contrast between the text colour and the background colour. If you look, these changes are inline with the tables in the NASCAR races.


 * With regards to the sortability, that simply seemed preferable: after all, why have a non-sortable table when you have a sortable one? The qualifying table I did make some additions to, purely to include more information, I don't see this as a major issue. I did visit WP:AOWR, and looked at a number of the IndyCar race pages before I started my expansion, but given that there are no articles of Good or Featured quality within IndyCar (that I could readily find) I primarily based the article format from NASCAR and Formula 1 articles that were Good or Featured quality. I am of course happy to discuss any of the changes at WT:AOWR, and similarly I will probably bring up the use of flags in infoboxes there, as this is something that MOS:FLAG is very particular about. Feel free to raise any issues you have with the changes here, on my talk page or at WT:AOWR, which I am now watching. Regards,  Harrias  talk 13:02, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I admit my original definition was probably too extreme. The largely increased widening of the tables caused by the sorting arrows had a larger impression than the other changes.
 * With regards to your point on flags, generally they are used as the series' drivers come from many parts of the world, similar to Formula One. The lack of flags on NASCAR articles is that 98% of the drivers are American, and the few drivers that are not American (JPM, Ambrose, Villeneuve, Papis etc.) are well-known enough to not require a flag. It's like comparing apples to oranges, whereas F1 vs. IndyCar would be Granny Smith vs... something you grow in your backyard.
 * Car colours, I have no arguments. They were removed from these articles in 2011, but other editors re-added them this year. I just edit based on current consensus, indifferent either way.
 * The sortability debate is probably something best at WT:MOTOR as it's something that can be defined for all motorsport articles. My viewpoint is that the tables don't require sortability in other columns (bar perhaps Q1/Q2 qualifying times, as seen in 1994 San Marino Grand Prix, an F1 FA), as they are (generally) already sorted by the most important factor - finishing position. The closest thing AOWR has to a GA would probably be 2011 IZOD IndyCar World Championship, owing to the significance of the event and the fatal crash of Dan Wheldon.  TheChrisD  Rants • Edits 19:36, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * And I'll admit, I've probably got a bit too defensive about my own work, I'm sure you know what it can be like, sometimes any comment or question seems like a criticism! Regarding the flags, I can concede that I must have missed the presence of them in F1 articles! I still think that the country name should probably be listed, either in the table, or in a key: if for nothing other than the New Zealand / Australia disambiguation. But I certainly wouldn't be adverse to putting them back in some way. Like you say, a proper discussion is probably in order at either WT:MOTOR or WT:AOWR, or both, about various issues. I'm quite busy over the next week, so feel free to kick it off yourself if you like and just ping me a message on my talk page to let me know, otherwise I'll set the ball rolling when I've got a bit more free time. Regards,  Harrias  talk 20:25, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Red tires?
I don't follow car racing, but I looked at this article when it was linked from the main page. In the second paragraph is a reference to "red tires". This term is not used in the rest of the article and doesn't seem to be mentioned in the article on tires. This makes me wonder if it's just a term that Wikipedia doesn't cover (and maybe should, somewhere), or if it's some sort of typo (or vandalism) that should be fixed.

--142.205.241.254 (talk) 00:45, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for noting this: I've added the fact that the softer tires were red into the body of the article too, but I'll try and find a source so that I can provide an explanatory note about this.  Harrias  talk 06:26, 12 July 2012 (UTC)