Talk:2012 World Rally Championship

On the teams and drivers section, by putting the cars toguethers, it get's trickly to read the separative lines of each team. Shouldn't be separated properly or have the "car" column move to the right or left?

MNSZ (talk) 02:29, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Ott Tänak
He has Go Fast stickers for Rally Sweden, but I think he still brings points to M-Sport. So it's not correct atm. Pelmeen10 (talk) 17:20, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I expect you're right. He's still shown on the entry list as being entered by M-Sport so I doubt they would change that at the last minute. - mspete  93  17:26, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Although maybe something should be mentioned under "Team and driver changes"? Pelmeen10 (talk) 15:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think it is necessary to be honest. Just because he happens to have the same sponsors stickers for one weekend only, doesn't make him part of that team. Ken Block has been entered under the Stobart M-Sport banner in the past, while still in regular Monster colours. The M-Sport press release is here: http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news/953-taenak-joins-go-fast-for-sweden It only talks about him 'promoting the Go Fast brand', not representing their team. - mspete  93  17:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Neuville's number
Someone keeps editing the page to show that Thierry Neuville is driving car #8. This is a problem, because it lists him as having driven car #8 in Monte Carlo, Sweden and in Mexico. However, the rest of the article clearly states that Delecour drove car #8 in Monte Carlo, and Solowow drove it in Sweden. Theirry was #23 in Monte Carlo and #18 in Sweden. Therefore, all three need to be shown because two men cannot drive a car with the same number. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 09:45, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Neuville and the Citroen Junior Team (together with Adapta) do not begin as a manufacturer-registered team until Mexico, so that's where the problem arises. I think if you look on the entry lists his entries in Monte Carlo and Sweden were made under his own name. Therefore a simple solution would be to move his entries for those two rallies out into the non-manufacturer-registered section and put them under his own name. - mspete  93  11:39, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
 * If we show all the numbers of Neuville, shall we do so for Østberg, Ogier, (in the future) Abbring and Mikkelsen, etc? The table will become a mess. On pages of the previous seasons, only one number is shown for one driver, unless he drives for more than one team. Icelan (talk) 11:46, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
 * "It looks better this way" is not a valid argument. Like I said, the table currently insinuates that Neuville drove car #8 at Monte Carlo and in Sweden, when we know Delecour drove #8 in Monte Carlo and Solowow drove it in Sweden. That's a contradiction that we can't have. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 21:25, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I have had to keep restoring content to the page. Neuville drove car #23 in Monte Carlo and car #18 in Sweden. We can prove this with the entry lists. So, to whoever keeps editing Neuville's entry down to a single line, please stop - what you are doing is factually incorrect. Somebody else drove car #18 in Monte Carlo. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 11:31, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Manufacturer Teams/Drivers
I was checking that the Adapta World Rally Team Entry, was only for rallys 3 and 5 (Mexico and Argentina), but Mads Ostberg is listed as Manufacture Driver for all of his entrys. On other Hand, Thierry Neuville isn't listed as Manufacture on Rally 1 and 2 (witch is ok). The Question is why only consider the non-manufacture rally for some and other don't? Bye!!! MNSZ (talk) 01:06, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I have edited that now and the info is correct. How do you think it looks? FinnishF1Fan (talk) 22:40, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The table looks confusing now. I think you need to explain what the dashes stand for and why a driver has a car number in some rounds while not in others. Icelan (talk) 03:19, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Car Numbers
I think that the World Rally Championship entries table shouldn't show all of the car numbers the drivers have driven. For example, for Rally Finland Ketomaa, Prokop, Ogier and Mikkelsen are getting new numbers. Especially the Volkswagen drivers seem to get a different number to every rally.

The car numbers aren't even that important in WRC, at least for non-manufacturer crews.

I suggest we should mark to the driver's number either – or the number he has used most. What do you think?

FinnishF1Fan (talk) 22:04, 1 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I think you need consensus before you do it. You can't just wipe information out of the article because you don't think it's relevant. You should either keep all of the numbers in place, or none of them - in which case the entries should be groups alphbetically by manufacturer, then by team, and then by driver. Not by the number of events they have entered.


 * So, this is what the table will look like (for the manufacturer entries, at least):


 * {| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 85%"

!colspan=7| Manufacturer teams ! Constructor ! Car ! Team ! Tyre ! Drivers ! Co-drivers ! Rounds !rowspan="6"| Citroën !rowspan="11"| Ford !rowspan="2"| Mini
 * rowspan="6"| Citroën DS3 WRC
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Total World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * 🇫🇷 Sébastien Loeb
 * 🇲🇨 Daniel Elena
 * 1–8
 * 🇫🇮 Mikko Hirvonen
 * 🇫🇮 Jarmo Lehtinen
 * 1–8
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * align="center"|
 * 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 3–6, 8
 * rowspan="3"| 🇶🇦 Qatar World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3" align="center"|
 * 🇶🇦 Nasser Al-Attiyah
 * 🇮🇹 Giovanni Bernacchini
 * 2–6
 * 🇦🇺 Chris Atkinson
 * 🇧🇪 Stéphane Prévot
 * 8
 * 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 7
 * 8
 * 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 7
 * 7
 * rowspan="11"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * align="center"|
 * 🇳🇴 Mads Østberg
 * 🇸🇪 Jonas Andersson
 * 3–6, 8
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇷 Brazil World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * 🇧🇷 Daniel Oliveira
 * 🇵🇹 Carlos Magalhães
 * 4–6
 * 🇦🇹 Manfred Stohl
 * 🇦🇹 Ilka Minor
 * 7
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3" align="center"|
 * 🇫🇮 Jari-Matti Latvala
 * 🇫🇮 Miikka Anttila
 * 1–4, 6–8
 * 🇳🇴 Petter Solberg
 * 🇬🇧 Chris Patterson
 * 1–8
 * 🇪🇸 Dani Sordo
 * 🇪🇸 Carlos del Barrio
 * 5
 * rowspan="5"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="5" align="center"|
 * 🇫🇷 François Delecour
 * 🇫🇷 Dominique Savignoni
 * 1
 * 🇳🇱 Dennis Kuipers
 * 🇧🇪 Robin Buysmans
 * 4
 * 🇷🇺 Evgeny Novikov
 * 🇫🇷 Denis Giraudet
 * 1–8
 * 🇵🇱 Michał Sołowow
 * 🇵🇱 Maciek Baran
 * 2
 * 🇪🇪 Ott Tänak
 * 🇪🇪 Kuldar Sikk
 * 1–8
 * 🇫🇷 Denis Giraudet
 * 1–8
 * 🇵🇱 Michał Sołowow
 * 🇵🇱 Maciek Baran
 * 2
 * 🇪🇪 Ott Tänak
 * 🇪🇪 Kuldar Sikk
 * 1–8
 * 🇪🇪 Kuldar Sikk
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="2"| Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * rowspan="2"| WRC Team Mini Portugal
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * Armindo Araújo
 * Miguel Ramalho
 * 2–8
 * 🇧🇷 Paulo Nobre
 * 🇧🇷 Edu Paula
 * 2–8
 * }
 * }
 * }


 * Alternatively, the table could be arranged by constructor, then by team, then by events in sequentual order (with drivers who complete all events listed at the top for each team). Prisonermonkeys (talk) 02:50, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * That table is pretty good but it has no information of which drivers have scored manufactures' points. The table's name is ‘Manufacturer teams’. If we don't tell which drivers have actually scored for manufactures, it is useless to have two sections (manufacturer and major entries). This table was my first idea and I think it looks the most attractive and informative when we add a note telling what the car numbers and – mean.


 * {| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 85%"

!colspan=8| Manufacturer teams ! Team ! Constructor ! Car ! Tyre ! No. ! Drivers ! Co-drivers ! Rounds !rowspan="2"| Citroën !rowspan="3"| Ford !rowspan="5"| Ford !rowspan="3"| Citroën !rowspan="2"| Citroën !rowspan="2"| Ford !rowspan="3"| Ford !rowspan="2"| Mini ! Mini ! Mini !rowspan="2"| Mini
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Total World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Total World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Citroën DS3 WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 1
 * 🇫🇷 Sébastien Loeb
 * 🇲🇨 Daniel Elena
 * 1–8
 * align="center"| 2
 * 🇫🇮 Mikko Hirvonen
 * 🇫🇮 Jarmo Lehtinen
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="3" align="center"|
 * rowspan="2" align="center"| 3
 * 🇫🇮 Jari-Matti Latvala
 * 🇫🇮 Miikka Anttila
 * 1–4, 6–8
 * 🇪🇸 Dani Sordo
 * 🇪🇸 Carlos del Barrio
 * 5
 * align="center"| 4
 * 🇳🇴 Petter Solberg
 * 🇬🇧 Chris Patterson
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="5"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="5"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="5"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="5"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="5" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 5
 * 🇪🇪 Ott Tänak
 * 🇪🇪 Kuldar Sikk
 * 1–8
 * align="center"| 6
 * 🇷🇺 Evgeny Novikov
 * 🇫🇷 Denis Giraudet
 * 1–8
 * align="center"| –
 * 🇫🇷 François Delecour
 * 🇫🇷 Dominique Savignoni
 * 1
 * align="center"| –
 * 🇵🇱 Michał Sołowow
 * 🇵🇱 Maciek Baran
 * 2
 * align="center"| –
 * 🇳🇱 Dennis Kuipers
 * 🇧🇪 Robin Buysmans
 * 4
 * rowspan="3"| 🇶🇦 Qatar World Rally Team
 * 🇳🇱 Dennis Kuipers
 * 🇧🇪 Robin Buysmans
 * 4
 * rowspan="3"| 🇶🇦 Qatar World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇶🇦 Qatar World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| Citroën DS3 WRC
 * rowspan="3" align="center"|
 * rowspan="3" align="center"| 7
 * 🇶🇦 Nasser Al-Attiyah
 * 🇮🇹 Giovanni Bernacchini
 * 2–6
 * 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 7
 * 🇦🇺 Chris Atkinson
 * 🇧🇪 Stéphane Prévot
 * 8
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * 8
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Citroën DS3 WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 8
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 3–6, 8
 * align="center"| –
 * 1–2
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇷 Brazil World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇷 Brazil World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇷 Brazil World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * rowspan="2" align="center"| 9
 * 🇧🇷 Daniel Oliveira
 * 🇵🇹 Carlos Magalhães
 * 4–6
 * 🇦🇹 Manfred Stohl
 * 🇦🇹 Ilka Minor
 * 7
 * rowspan="3"| 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="3" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 10
 * rowspan="2"| 🇳🇴 Mads Østberg
 * rowspan="2"| 🇸🇪 Jonas Andersson
 * 3, 5, 8
 * align="center"| –
 * 2, 4, 6
 * align="center"| –
 * 🇳🇴 Eyvind Brynildsen
 * 🇳🇴 Cato Menkerud
 * 2
 * rowspan="2"| WRC Team Mini Portugal
 * 2
 * rowspan="2"| WRC Team Mini Portugal
 * rowspan="2"| WRC Team Mini Portugal
 * rowspan="2"| Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 12
 * Armindo Araújo
 * Miguel Ramalho
 * 2–8
 * align="center"| 14
 * 🇧🇷 Paulo Nobre
 * 🇧🇷 Edu Paula
 * 2–8
 * Armindo Araújo World Rally Team
 * Armindo Araújo World Rally Team
 * Armindo Araújo World Rally Team
 * Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 12
 * Armindo Araújo
 * Miguel Ramalho
 * 1
 * 🇧🇷 Palmeirinha Rally
 * 🇧🇷 Palmeirinha Rally
 * Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 14
 * 🇧🇷 Paulo Nobre
 * 🇧🇷 Edu Paula
 * 1
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 Mini WRC Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 Mini WRC Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 Mini WRC Team
 * rowspan="2"| Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 37
 * 🇪🇸 Dani Sordo
 * 🇪🇸 Carlos del Barrio
 * 1
 * align="center"| 52
 * 🇫🇷 Pierre Campana
 * 🇫🇷 Sabrina de Castelli
 * 1
 * }
 * }


 * The reason I want to keep car numbers for manufacturer teams is that FIA have given those numbers to those teams. You can't see a privateer driving a car number 3 or 6 for example. Alternatively, we could move the driver's not scoring manufactures points to the below section ‘Major entries not registered as manufacturers’ like this:


 * {| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 85%"

!colspan=8| Manufacturer teams ! Team ! Constructor ! Car ! Tyre ! No. ! Drivers ! Co-drivers ! Rounds !rowspan="2"| Citroën !rowspan="3"| Ford !rowspan="2"| Ford !rowspan="3"| Citroën ! Citroën !rowspan="2"| Ford ! Ford !rowspan="2"| Mini ! Mini ! Mini !rowspan="2"| Mini !colspan=8| Major entries not registered as manufacturers !rowspan="2"| Ford !rowspan="3"| Ford ! Citroën
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Total World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Total World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Citroën DS3 WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 1
 * 🇫🇷 Sébastien Loeb
 * 🇲🇨 Daniel Elena
 * 1–8
 * align="center"| 2
 * 🇫🇮 Mikko Hirvonen
 * 🇫🇮 Jarmo Lehtinen
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="3" align="center"|
 * rowspan="2" align="center"| 3
 * 🇫🇮 Jari-Matti Latvala
 * 🇫🇮 Miikka Anttila
 * 1–4, 6–8
 * 🇪🇸 Dani Sordo
 * 🇪🇸 Carlos del Barrio
 * 5
 * align="center"| 4
 * 🇳🇴 Petter Solberg
 * 🇬🇧 Chris Patterson
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 5
 * 🇪🇪 Ott Tänak
 * 🇪🇪 Kuldar Sikk
 * 1–8
 * align="center"| 6
 * 🇷🇺 Evgeny Novikov
 * 🇫🇷 Denis Giraudet
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="3"| 🇶🇦 Qatar World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇶🇦 Qatar World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇶🇦 Qatar World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| Citroën DS3 WRC
 * rowspan="3" align="center"|
 * rowspan="3" align="center"| 7
 * 🇶🇦 Nasser Al-Attiyah
 * 🇮🇹 Giovanni Bernacchini
 * 2–6
 * 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 7
 * 🇦🇺 Chris Atkinson
 * 🇧🇪 Stéphane Prévot
 * 8
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * 8
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * Citroën DS3 WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 8
 * 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 3–6, 8
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇷 Brazil World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇷 Brazil World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * rowspan="2" align="center"| 9
 * 🇧🇷 Daniel Oliveira
 * 🇵🇹 Carlos Magalhães
 * 4–6
 * 🇦🇹 Manfred Stohl
 * 🇦🇹 Ilka Minor
 * 7
 * 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 10
 * 🇳🇴 Mads Østberg
 * 🇸🇪 Jonas Andersson
 * 3, 5, 8
 * rowspan="2"| WRC Team Mini Portugal
 * rowspan="2"| WRC Team Mini Portugal
 * rowspan="2"| Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 12
 * Armindo Araújo
 * Miguel Ramalho
 * 2–8
 * align="center"| 14
 * 🇧🇷 Paulo Nobre
 * 🇧🇷 Edu Paula
 * 2–8
 * Armindo Araújo World Rally Team
 * Armindo Araújo World Rally Team
 * Armindo Araújo World Rally Team
 * Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 12
 * Armindo Araújo
 * Miguel Ramalho
 * 1
 * 🇧🇷 Palmeirinha Rally
 * 🇧🇷 Palmeirinha Rally
 * Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 14
 * 🇧🇷 Paulo Nobre
 * 🇧🇷 Edu Paula
 * 1
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 Mini WRC Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 Mini WRC Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 Mini WRC Team
 * rowspan="2"| Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 37
 * 🇪🇸 Dani Sordo
 * 🇪🇸 Carlos del Barrio
 * 1
 * align="center"| 52
 * 🇫🇷 Pierre Campana
 * 🇫🇷 Sabrina de Castelli
 * 1
 * 1
 * rowspan="2"| 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| –
 * 🇳🇴 Mads Østberg
 * 🇸🇪 Jonas Andersson
 * 2, 4, 6
 * align="center"| –
 * 🇳🇴 Eyvind Brynildsen
 * 🇳🇴 Cato Menkerud
 * 2
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="3" align="center"|
 * align="center"| –
 * 🇫🇷 François Delecour
 * 🇫🇷 Dominique Savignoni
 * 1
 * align="center"| –
 * 🇵🇱 Michał Sołowow
 * 🇵🇱 Maciek Baran
 * 2
 * align="center"| –
 * 🇳🇱 Dennis Kuipers
 * 🇧🇪 Robin Buysmans
 * 4
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * 4
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * Citroën DS3 WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| –
 * 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 1–2
 * }
 * FinnishF1Fan (talk) 10:39, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * But you can't leave those other numbers blank. That implies that some drivers have a number and others do not, and there is no explanation for the difference. Furthermore, you want to introduce that difference for cosmetic purposes, which is effectively censorship and Wikipedia is not censored. We either keep all of the numbers or none of there. There is no middle ground. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 00:35, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay then, we leave the car numbers to the table. But to clarify which drivers were scoring for manufactures', I suggest making it like this:
 * {| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 85%"

!colspan=8| Manufacturer teams ! Team ! Constructor ! Car ! Tyre ! No. ! Drivers ! Co-drivers ! Rounds !rowspan="2"| Citroën !rowspan="3"| Ford !rowspan="2"| Ford !rowspan="3"| Citroën ! Citroën !rowspan="2"| Ford ! Ford !rowspan="2"| Mini ! Mini ! Mini !rowspan="2"| Mini !colspan=8| Major entries not registered as manufacturers !rowspan="3"| Ford !rowspan="2"| Ford !rowspan="2"| Citroën
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Total World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Total World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Citroën DS3 WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 1
 * 🇫🇷 Sébastien Loeb
 * 🇲🇨 Daniel Elena
 * 1–8
 * align="center"| 2
 * 🇫🇮 Mikko Hirvonen
 * 🇫🇮 Jarmo Lehtinen
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="3" align="center"|
 * rowspan="2" align="center"| 3
 * 🇫🇮 Jari-Matti Latvala
 * 🇫🇮 Miikka Anttila
 * 1–4, 6–8
 * 🇪🇸 Dani Sordo
 * 🇪🇸 Carlos del Barrio
 * 5
 * align="center"| 4
 * 🇳🇴 Petter Solberg
 * 🇬🇧 Chris Patterson
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 5
 * 🇪🇪 Ott Tänak
 * 🇪🇪 Kuldar Sikk
 * 1–8
 * align="center"| 6
 * 🇷🇺 Evgeny Novikov
 * 🇫🇷 Denis Giraudet
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="3"| 🇶🇦 Qatar World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇶🇦 Qatar World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇶🇦 Qatar World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| Citroën DS3 WRC
 * rowspan="3" align="center"|
 * rowspan="3" align="center"| 7
 * 🇶🇦 Nasser Al-Attiyah
 * 🇮🇹 Giovanni Bernacchini
 * 2–6
 * 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 7
 * 🇦🇺 Chris Atkinson
 * 🇧🇪 Stéphane Prévot
 * 8
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * 8
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * Citroën DS3 WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 8
 * 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 3–6, 8
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇷 Brazil World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇷 Brazil World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * rowspan="2" align="center"| 9
 * 🇧🇷 Daniel Oliveira
 * 🇵🇹 Carlos Magalhães
 * 4–6
 * 🇦🇹 Manfred Stohl
 * 🇦🇹 Ilka Minor
 * 7
 * 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 10
 * 🇳🇴 Mads Østberg
 * 🇸🇪 Jonas Andersson
 * 3, 5, 8
 * rowspan="2"| WRC Team Mini Portugal
 * rowspan="2"| WRC Team Mini Portugal
 * rowspan="2"| Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 12
 * Armindo Araújo
 * Miguel Ramalho
 * 2–8
 * align="center"| 14
 * 🇧🇷 Paulo Nobre
 * 🇧🇷 Edu Paula
 * 2–8
 * Armindo Araújo World Rally Team
 * Armindo Araújo World Rally Team
 * Armindo Araújo World Rally Team
 * Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 12
 * Armindo Araújo
 * Miguel Ramalho
 * 1
 * 🇧🇷 Palmeirinha Rally
 * 🇧🇷 Palmeirinha Rally
 * Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 14
 * 🇧🇷 Paulo Nobre
 * 🇧🇷 Edu Paula
 * 1
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 Mini WRC Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 Mini WRC Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 Mini WRC Team
 * rowspan="2"| Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 37
 * 🇪🇸 Dani Sordo
 * 🇪🇸 Carlos del Barrio
 * 1
 * align="center"| 52
 * 🇫🇷 Pierre Campana
 * 🇫🇷 Sabrina de Castelli
 * 1
 * 1
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="3" align="center"|
 * rowspan="2" align="center"| 8
 * 🇫🇷 François Delecour
 * 🇫🇷 Dominique Savignoni
 * 1
 * 🇵🇱 Michał Sołowow
 * 🇵🇱 Maciek Baran
 * 2
 * align="center"| 18
 * 🇳🇱 Dennis Kuipers
 * 🇧🇪 Robin Buysmans
 * 4
 * rowspan="2"| 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * 4
 * rowspan="2"| 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 10
 * 🇳🇴 Mads Østberg
 * 🇸🇪 Jonas Andersson
 * 2, 4, 6
 * align="center"| 64
 * 🇳🇴 Eyvind Brynildsen
 * 🇳🇴 Cato Menkerud
 * 2
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Citroën DS3 WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 18
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 2
 * align="center"| 23
 * 1
 * }
 * FinnishF1Fan (talk) 01:31, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * FinnishF1Fan (talk) 01:31, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I actually quite like the idea of leaving the numbers out entirely and moving the coumns around a bit. It should make the table much easier to read. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 02:49, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd like to separate the tables as in manufactures the Team is more important than the car. But the privateers can be sorted by the car. So this is what I mean:
 * {| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 85%"

!colspan=8| Manufacturer teams ! Team ! Constructor ! Car ! Tyre ! No. ! Drivers ! Co-drivers ! Rounds !rowspan="2"| Citroën !rowspan="3"| Ford !rowspan="2"| Ford !rowspan="3"| Citroën ! Citroën !rowspan="2"| Ford ! Ford !rowspan="2"| Mini ! Mini ! Mini !rowspan="2"| Mini
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Total World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇫🇷 Citroën Total World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Citroën DS3 WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 1
 * 🇫🇷 Sébastien Loeb
 * 🇲🇨 Daniel Elena
 * 1–8
 * align="center"| 2
 * 🇫🇮 Mikko Hirvonen
 * 🇫🇮 Jarmo Lehtinen
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇬🇧 Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="3" align="center"|
 * rowspan="2" align="center"| 3
 * 🇫🇮 Jari-Matti Latvala
 * 🇫🇮 Miikka Anttila
 * 1–4, 6–8
 * 🇪🇸 Dani Sordo
 * 🇪🇸 Carlos del Barrio
 * 5
 * align="center"| 4
 * 🇳🇴 Petter Solberg
 * 🇬🇧 Chris Patterson
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 M-Sport Ford World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 5
 * 🇪🇪 Ott Tänak
 * 🇪🇪 Kuldar Sikk
 * 1–8
 * align="center"| 6
 * 🇷🇺 Evgeny Novikov
 * 🇫🇷 Denis Giraudet
 * 1–8
 * rowspan="3"| 🇶🇦 Qatar World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇶🇦 Qatar World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| 🇶🇦 Qatar World Rally Team
 * rowspan="3"| Citroën DS3 WRC
 * rowspan="3" align="center"|
 * rowspan="3" align="center"| 7
 * 🇶🇦 Nasser Al-Attiyah
 * 🇮🇹 Giovanni Bernacchini
 * 2–6
 * 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 7
 * 🇦🇺 Chris Atkinson
 * 🇧🇪 Stéphane Prévot
 * 8
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * 8
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * Citroën DS3 WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 8
 * 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 3–6, 8
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇷 Brazil World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇧🇷 Brazil World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2"| Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * rowspan="2" align="center"| 9
 * 🇧🇷 Daniel Oliveira
 * 🇵🇹 Carlos Magalhães
 * 4–6
 * 🇦🇹 Manfred Stohl
 * 🇦🇹 Ilka Minor
 * 7
 * 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * Ford Fiesta RS WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 10
 * 🇳🇴 Mads Østberg
 * 🇸🇪 Jonas Andersson
 * 3, 5, 8
 * rowspan="2"| WRC Team Mini Portugal
 * rowspan="2"| WRC Team Mini Portugal
 * rowspan="2"| Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 12
 * Armindo Araújo
 * Miguel Ramalho
 * 2–8
 * align="center"| 14
 * 🇧🇷 Paulo Nobre
 * 🇧🇷 Edu Paula
 * 2–8
 * Armindo Araújo World Rally Team
 * Armindo Araújo World Rally Team
 * Armindo Araújo World Rally Team
 * Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 12
 * Armindo Araújo
 * Miguel Ramalho
 * 1
 * 🇧🇷 Palmeirinha Rally
 * 🇧🇷 Palmeirinha Rally
 * Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"| 14
 * 🇧🇷 Paulo Nobre
 * 🇧🇷 Edu Paula
 * 1
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 Mini WRC Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 Mini WRC Team
 * rowspan="2"| 🇬🇧 Mini WRC Team
 * rowspan="2"| Mini John Cooper Works WRC
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * align="center"| 37
 * 🇪🇸 Dani Sordo
 * 🇪🇸 Carlos del Barrio
 * 1
 * align="center"| 52
 * 🇫🇷 Pierre Campana
 * 🇫🇷 Sabrina de Castelli
 * 1
 * }
 * {| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 85%"
 * {| class="wikitable" style="font-size: 85%"

!colspan=6| Major entries not registered as manufacturers ! Constructor (Car) ! Team ! Tyre ! Drivers ! Co-drivers ! Rounds ! rowspan="3" | Citroën (Citroën DS3 WRC) ! rowspan="15" | Ford (Ford Fiesta RS WRC) ! rowspan="7" | Mini (Mini John Cooper Works WRC) ! rowspan="5" | Škoda (Škoda Fabia S2000) ! Volkswagen (Volkswagen Polo R WRC)
 * 🇫🇷 Citroën Junior World Rally Team
 * align="center"|
 * 🇧🇪 Thierry Neuville
 * 🇧🇪 Nicolas Gilsoul
 * 1-2
 * rowspan="2"| Van Merksteijn Motorsport
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * Peter van Merksteijn, Sr.
 * 🇧🇪 Eddy Chevaillier
 * 1
 * Peter van Merksteijn, Jr.
 * 🇧🇪 Eddy Chevaillier
 * 2, 4, 9
 * 🇧🇪 Eddy Chevaillier
 * 2, 4, 9
 * rowspan="2"| 🇳🇴 Adapta World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * 🇳🇴 Mads Østberg
 * 🇸🇪 Jonas Andersson
 * 2, 4, 6
 * 🇳🇴 Eyvind Brynildsen
 * 🇳🇴 Cato Menkerud
 * 2
 * 🇦🇹 AT Rally
 * align="center"|
 * 🇫🇮 Sebastian Lindholm
 * 🇫🇮 Timo Hantunen
 * 8
 * rowspan="3" | 🇬🇧 Autotek Motorsport
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * 🇫🇮 Jari Ketomaa
 * 🇫🇮 Mika Stenberg
 * 2, 4, 7–8
 * 🇨🇿 Martin Prokop
 * 🇨🇿 Zdeněk Hrůza
 * 5
 * align="center"|
 * 🇨🇾 Spyros Pavlides
 * 🇫🇷 Nicolas Klinger
 * 6
 * 🇨🇿 Czech Ford National Team
 * align="center" |
 * 🇨🇿 Martin Prokop
 * 🇨🇿 Zdeněk Hrůza
 * 1–2, 4, 6, 8–9
 * 🇺🇦 Dream Team Ukraine
 * align="center" |
 * 🇺🇦 Oleksiy Tamrazov
 * 🇺🇦 Oleksandr Gorbik
 * 6
 * rowspan="2" | 🇺🇸 Go Fast Energy World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2" align="center" |
 * 🇳🇴 Henning Solberg
 * 🇦🇹 Ilka Minor
 * 1–2
 * Matthew Wilson
 * Scott Martin
 * 1
 * 🇫🇮 Matti Rantanen
 * align="center"|
 * 🇫🇮 Matti Rantanen
 * 🇫🇮 Mikko Lukka
 * 8
 * 🇬🇧 M-Sport
 * align="center" |
 * 🇲🇽 Ricardo Triviño
 * 🇪🇸 Àlex Haro
 * 3
 * rowspan="2"| 🇺🇸 Monster World Rally Team
 * rowspan="2" align="center" |
 * 🇺🇸 Ken Block
 * 🇮🇹 Alex Gelsomino
 * 3, 7–8
 * 🇦🇺 Chris Atkinson
 * 🇧🇪 Stéphane Prévot
 * 3
 * 🇫🇷 Team Emap Yacco
 * align="center"|
 * 🇫🇷 Julien Maurin
 * 🇫🇷 Olivier Ural
 * 1
 * rowspan="2" align="center" |
 * 🇺🇸 Ken Block
 * 🇮🇹 Alex Gelsomino
 * 3, 7–8
 * 🇦🇺 Chris Atkinson
 * 🇧🇪 Stéphane Prévot
 * 3
 * 🇫🇷 Team Emap Yacco
 * align="center"|
 * 🇫🇷 Julien Maurin
 * 🇫🇷 Olivier Ural
 * 1
 * 🇫🇷 Olivier Ural
 * 1
 * Eliseo Salazar Motorsports
 * align="center" |
 * Eliseo Salazar
 * 🇪🇸 Marc Martí
 * 5
 * 🇸🇪 Eljas Motorsport
 * align="center" |
 * 🇸🇪 Richard Göransson
 * 🇸🇪 Anders Fredriksson
 * 2
 * rowspan="3" |
 * rowspan="3" align="center" |
 * 🇪🇸 Dani Sordo
 * 🇪🇸 Carlos del Barrio
 * 2, 4, 7, 9
 * rowspan="2"| 🇸🇪 Patrik Sandell
 * 🇸🇪 Staffan Parmander
 * 2
 * 🇸🇪 Maria Andersson
 * 4
 * 🇶🇦 Seashore Qatar Rally Team
 * align="center" |
 * 🇶🇦 Abdulaziz Al-Kuwari
 * 🇮🇹 Nicola Arena
 * 6
 * 🇹🇷 TOK Sport
 * align="center" |
 * 🇫🇮 Riku Tahko
 * 🇫🇮 Markus Soininen
 * 8
 * 🇹🇷 TOK Sport
 * align="center" |
 * 🇫🇮 Riku Tahko
 * 🇫🇮 Markus Soininen
 * 8
 * 8
 * rowspan="5" | 🇩🇪 Volkswagen Motorsport
 * rowspan="5" align="center" |
 * 🇫🇷 Sébastien Ogier
 * 🇫🇷 Julien Ingrassia
 * 1–6, 8–9
 * rowspan="2" | Kevin Abbring
 * 🇧🇪 Lara Vanneste
 * 1
 * 🇧🇪 Frédéric Miclotte
 * 3–4
 * 🇳🇴 Andreas Mikkelsen
 * 🇳🇴 Ola Fløene
 * 2, 5-6, 8-9
 * 🇩🇪 Sepp Wiegand
 * 🇩🇪 Timo Gottschalk
 * 9
 * 🇩🇪 Sepp Wiegand
 * 🇩🇪 Timo Gottschalk
 * 9
 * 9
 * 🇩🇪 Volkswagen Motorsport
 * align="center" |
 * 🇫🇷 Sébastien Ogier
 * 🇫🇷 Julien Ingrassia
 * 12
 * }
 * }


 * FinnishF1Fan (talk) 21:36, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

The problem with that is that the tables are now inconsistent. They perform the same function, but they contain different information, with no explanation for the difference. I don't think the numbers are important at all; the 2012 Intercontinental Rally Challenge season page does the same thing, and it's very effective. Yes, I know the IRC change their numbers from event to event, but it just highlights how unnecessary a numbers column is. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:34, 7 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I still think the manufacturer teams should have the car numbers next to the drivers. This FIA document states clearly that the certain car numbres belong to the certain manu teams just like in Formula One for example. http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wrc/2012/Pages/wrc-entrants-nom.aspx
 * Also the PWRC and SWRC (and WRC Academy) crews have their own numbers: PWRC, SWRC
 * The fact that the tables would have different appearance doesn't really matter. The non-manufacturer entrants are just extra-info. FinnishF1Fan (talk) 13:23, 12 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm thinking that the number also mark the drivers priority in a Team. I mean, obviously, Loeb is the numer 1 driver por Citröen, but in the table it shows Mikko Hirvonen first. Just a Thought MNSZ (talk) 20:43, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

We can't assume that any driver has priority over another driver, and the numbers certainly do not reflect that. The reason why Hirvonen is listed before Loeb in the table is because they are listed alphabetically. If his last name was Mirvonen, then Loeb would appear first. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 07:23, 19 August 2012 (UTC)


 * If we don't have car numbers to the manufacturers teams here, why we have them in Formula 1? They are given in a same way, by the previous year's manufacturers' standings. And everybody can see those FIA documents above, they clearly show which numbers belong to which team (and SWRC / PWRC crew). Now it feels like we are missing some information. FinnishF1Fan (talk) 14:50, 20 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Formula 1 is different - the numbers are fixed for the season. If we were to include numbers on this page, then we would have to include all of the numbers, which makes a mess of the table. We cannot have a situation where one table has numbers and another table does not, with no explanation as to why, because Wikipedia is not censored - and "it looks neater" is not a valid explanation.


 * So it's a case of having all of the numbers or none of them. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 11:22, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Matthew Wilson's Team
Why Matthew Wilson is lined for Rally Walles under the M-Sport team? The news related to it, said clearly that the team is the M-Sport Ford World Rally Team. It should be listed as Dennis Kupiers, François Delecour, etc. Don't you think? MNSZ (talk) 00:13, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The entry list for Rally GB does not have Wilson at M-Sport WRT. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:21, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The Official Entry List in the webpage of Wales Rally GB show him with the M-Sport Ford WRT. MNSZ (talk) 13:12, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Martin Koči
Why Martin Koči is listed as a non-scoring academy entry, but is listed in the cup table as he has obtained points? MNSZ (talk) 01:23, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Forgot to do, thank you for saying. It's done now. Here's the proof: http://www.wrc.com/wrc-academy/results/ FinnishF1Fan (talk) 08:16, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

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