Talk:2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup – World Cup 3 – Men's 10000 metres

Proposed move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: close after 42 days Anthony Appleyard (talk) 07:48, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup – World Cup 3 – Men& → 2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup – World Cup 3 – Men's 10,000 metres – Per Manual of Style/Dates and numbers:


 * Numbers with five or more digits to the left of the decimal point (i.e. 10,000 or greater) should be delimited into groups so they can be easily parsed, such as by using a comma every three digits (e.g. 12,200, 255,200, 8,274,527).

Thus, "10,000 metres" should be delimited with a comma. --Relisted. Hot Stop talk-contribs 19:02, 8 March 2014 (UTC)  —sroc &#x1F4AC; 15:24, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I respectfully disagree – quote-unquote GHWB (first budget) – as I think the MOS should be amended. When 10k is at the end of the range of distances, I think this will introduce an awkward inconsistency, for a single entry at the end of a list. Let's have the discussion at MOS first. HandsomeFella (talk) 15:31, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * There is no need for discussion at MOS first unless you propose to amend MOS to allow the current naming. This proposal is to bring the article title in line with MOS, as it is currently non-compliant.  —sroc &#x1F4AC; 14:27, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Move to 2013–14 Speed Skating World Cup – Men's 10,000 metres, easier title with doing away with parts unnecessary for any disambiguating purposes. Bandy boy (talk) 11:25, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Support per nom and MOS. Bandy boy's suggestion is not bad, but I'd rather see it applied to other articles as well, for consistency. --BDD (talk) 18:31, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
 * there is no separate World Cup for the 10k distance (which your name proposal would suggest) – there is however a World Cup for the combination of 5k and 10k distances: the 2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup – Men's 5000 and 10000 metres. I have changed the redirect Anthony Appleyard created to point there instead of here. HandsomeFella (talk) 13:49, 9 April 2014 (UTC)


 * With respect, I do not think that 2013–14 Speed Skating World Cup – Men's 10,000 metres implies that there is a separate world cup for 10km; rather, it suggests a 10km event at the 2013–14 World Cup. It also has the advantage of succinctness over the current title (WP:CONCISE), provided that it is sufficiently precise (WP:PRECISION).  —sroc &#x1F4AC; 14:44, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with Sroc on this. Bandy boy (talk) 14:58, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Why this is a bad idea

 * Equally with respect, I suspect you've missed these categories:
 * Category:2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup – World Cup 1
 * Category:2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup – World Cup 2
 * Category:2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup – World Cup 3
 * Category:2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup – World Cup 4
 * Category:2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup – World Cup 5
 * Category:2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup – World Cup 6
 * Each of these categories contains articles covering the results of every distance competed on that competition weekend, and the articles therein are named accordingly.
 * Each of these categories contains articles covering the results of every distance competed on that competition weekend, and the articles therein are named accordingly.


 * There are also the corresponding categories along the "y-axis" (so to speak):
 * Category:2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup – Men's 500 metres
 * Category:2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup – Men's 1000 metres
 * Category:2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup – Women's 500 metres, etc.
 * Each of these categories contains articles covering the results in every competion for the involved distance(s) at various locations over the season.


 * In the cross-section between the events (the "x-axis") and the distances (the "y-axis") are the result lists for the individual distances at an event/location. In other words, each of the distances raced on a competition weekend is categorized in one competition weekend category and one distance category.


 * What is somewhat sloppily referred to as the "World Cup" could really be anything within this matrixNote of events and distances. You could be referring to the World Cup in general, the World Cup in Calgary (or elsewhere), or you could be referring to the men's 500 metres World Cup (or some other distance). The naming of this page – and all the others – is chosen so that it will be obvious both which distance is raced, and in which event it is raced. The fact that the 10k this particular year is raced only once does not mean that it is a good idea to rename the article. Removing "World Cup 3" might work for this particular article, but will not work for the others, as the other distances are all raced in more than event/location. Additionally, the men's 5k and 10k distances are in the same Cup (as are the women's 3k and 5k distances). It should also be noted that in previous years, the 10k has often been raced in more than one event/location. So, removing the "World Cup 3" part from the name of this particular article – this particular year – might appear to be a good idea with a limited perspective, but if one can see the bigger picture, it might be very different.


 * Summing up: such a renaming would introduce major inconsistencies, both over the various seasons/years, and over the distances and events within the same season/year, for no good reason that I can think of.


 * HandsomeFella (talk) 15:34, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: the actual matrix can be viewed and understood in 2013–14 ISU Speed Skating World Cup (though all individual competitions – distance &times; event/location – are not yet linked).