Talk:2014–15 Croatian presidential election

User:Tuvixer's edits

 * - What does "Second Republic" mean?
 * - Kolinda's political orientation is pretty straightforward, and finding a source for that should be easy.
 * - What does "fight against right wing populism" even mean?
 * - How is the sentence "Candidate of the biggest opposition party, the centre-right Croatian Democratic Union (HDZ), and supported by 7 other centre-right parties" improved by deleting the last word? Is it possible you don't know that Kolinda had been government minister from 2003 to 2008, instead of 2003-04 you put?
 * - The original number of 328,000 was rounded to 330,000. Which you decided to round down to 320,000. That's plain ridiculous.
 * - Oh, now you're saying Kolinda was minister 2003-05 :-)
 * - Oh, now you decided to put in the exact number of signatures (203,875) for Josipović :-)
 * - Aand likewise for Ivo :-)
 * - Josipović is "formally independent" because his SDP membership never ceased. His membership is defined as "frozen" since taking office, meaning he is, was and will be a card-carrying SDP party member, albeit without participating in any decision-making party meetings. As for being nominated by the SDP - the source clearly says he was "confirmed as party's canidate", and this happened in early September, before any other party extended their support for him. Ignoring all this and treating him as totally "independent" and listing SDP as merely just one of the parties enthusiastically supporting him does not really paint a realistic picture.  Timbouctou ( talk ) 23:28, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Just for the record
Virtually all Croatian media outlets, including the Večernji list, Jutarnji list, Novi list, Slobodna Dalmacija dailies as well as all three national TV channels (HRT, Nova TV and RTL) refer to Josipović as SDP's candidate in the election, and they shade his results in red in maps of election results. English Wikipedia seems to be the only place on the Internet where he is considered "independent".  Timbouctou ( talk ) 13:33, 3 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I originally created a map of the first round results showing Josipović in SDP red. This was replaced by another map showing the independent grey. I'm not active enough anymore to want to get involved in big disputes, but he's clearly the partisan candidate of the SDP. Considering the SDP government's involvement in the current campaign, claiming anything else is totally ingenuous.--Thewanderer (talk) 22:06, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Croatian presidential election, 2014–15
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Croatian presidential election, 2014–15's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "SEC-results": From Elections in Croatia:  From Croatian European Union membership referendum, 2012:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 21:15, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

2*1 agencija fake polls
@StjepanHR, now explain why do you want to add an unreliable opinion poll, one that was published after the election results, and the other published on a right wing fanatical fake news portal? Didn't it occur to you that any serious news media don't take that opinion poll seriously? Do you know why? Well try to find out. Now refrain yourself from editwaring and explain why do you want to add that opinion polls. also if you don't stop edit warring I will have to report you because of your disruptive edits and edit warring, I really don't want to do that, and lets have a reasonable discussion here. I have started the discussion and lets resolve the issue here. Thanks--Tuvixer (talk) 18:48, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The 2x1 agencija was the closest poll for the second round, and even for the first round, if we count only Kolinda and Ivo (neither of whom I voted for, btw, as I abstinated from the second round), as they haven't included Sinčić in their early surveys by the county. The poll WAS NOT published after the results. One of our main newspapers, Večernji list, only admitted they were the closest one, after the elections. I will continue to revert edits, as you can't possibly have any sensible reasons to revert them. And, please tell me, how do you explain that only "right wing survey" had the correct winner? I hope that you are inteligent enough to understand that 2x1 agencija was the only one that guessed the second round results with reasonable accuracy. If not, I will be glad to give you a shot lesson in statistics, so you can understand it (no offense, please, but I am an university-level expert in the said field, so I feel that I am competent to do that). StjepanHR (talk) 05:01, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Well I am sorry to inform you but my neighbor is a professor of statistics specialized in opinion polling and surveys. I have asked him multiple times if I should look at the 2*1 komunikacije polls as relevant and he said and I quote "They don't make scientific surveys, you better make up the numbers yourself and then say that it is an opinion poll". He also said that the polls from that agency are the most inaccurate ones, and that goes also for this elections. It is you who have to give reasonable arguments why such ridiculous polling firm should be included in a Wikipedia article. Also on multiple occasions there were serious accusations that they manipulate their opinion polls results by publishing one set of values and then after the elections are finished they change the numbers. Why are they dismissed by every major national TV??? So your edits have been contested, I can't see any reason why that poll should be included in the article about the elections. Thanks --Tuvixer (talk) 15:19, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Please ask your neighbour an opinion about the other surveys and let him explain to me why are they usually more inacurate than this one? Plus, a work of someone's neighbour is NOT a RELIABLE source. You must provide a proof which states why is the polling agency irrelevant. As for your question, our major TV chanells have contracts with other agencies, Promocija plus and Ipsos plus, and they had the contract with them long before 2x1 agencija even existed. Plus, 2x1 agencija is not as marginal as you maybe think (or pretend):
 * Večernji list (one of our major newspapers): https://www.vecernji.hr/vijesti/ni-hdz-ni-sdp-nece-imati-vecinu-bez-koaliranja-1015326
 * Jutarnji list (one of our major newspapers): http://izbori.jutarnji.hr/istrazivanje-agencije-2x1-komunikacije-domoljubna-koalicija-je-u-prednosti-pred-sdp-om-i-partnerima-pogledajte-u-kolikoj/
 * Slobodna Dalmacija (major newspaper in southern part of Croatia): http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/stil/gastro/clanak/id/278185/josip-jovic-lijevi-pretekli-desne
 * index.hr (probably the largest news portal in our country): http://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/anketa-2x1-komunikacija-u-iii-izbornoj-jedinici-pobjedjuje-sdp-ali-ukupno-je-bolji-hdz/827601.aspx
 * dnevno.hr (smaller than index, but popular among right-leaning population): http://www.dnevno.hr/vijesti/komentari/karamarko-premocno-pobjeduje-17-travnja-na-izborima-za-predsjednika-hdz-913489/
 * I will give you one day to provide relevant sources why we should exclude the poll and, if you fail to do that, I will then revert to the version that includes the polls. StjepanHR (talk) 15:52, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * You are in no position to be setting terms here. Please stop threatening and please be productive. So you think that your opinion is more valuable than one of a professor of statistics??? Or are you saying that we should all bow to your opinion? If you don't reach a consensus or if some 3rd parties are not involved then nothing is going to happen, you can't edit the article as you wish.
 * http://pollitika.com/predizborne-ankete-agencija-2x1-je-najlosija
 * Wow, even I didn't know this until now. I knew the owner of this polling agency was a right wing agitator, but this, well it pass under the radar I guess: https://www.vecernji.hr/premium/dvostruki-debakl-vlasnika-agencije-2x1-komunikacije-1036686
 * If you are a reasonable person, then after reading this article of Večernji list, you will come to my side. Thanks
 * I rest my case? --Tuvixer (talk) 19:26, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * No, my opinion doesn't matter here, as his doesn't matter. Plus, I am also a scientist in a field closely related to mathematics (and statistics in particular). The only thing that matter are the facts and RELIABLE written sources. I actually expected you would provide the link and there is simple explanation for that. Their survey was done county by county, so it was made during larger time period (you can see that the other survey excluded Sinčić completely until the second half of december). The owner explained it here: http://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/karamarko-je-popularniji-od-milanovica-a-ankete-u-kojima-josipovic-pobjedjuje-su-placenicke/792551.aspx (and you can see that your "right wing agitator" is not even a Croat, ahahahhaha, and was a candidate for German minority, with the support of Roma (Gypsy) minority: http://direktno.hr/direkt/ako-je-u-sabor-mogao-racan-zasto-ne-bi-i-magistar-politologije-bosak-28388/
 * The only person threatening anybody here and destroying something productive is you. I will now revert the edits, and feel free to report me. StjepanHR (talk) 20:49, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Are you ignoring the fact that the owner and the front person of that polling agency was the candidate of a major Croatian political party?????? Please stop editwarring. Also I have to ask you, do you have any affiliation with 2*1 komunikacije or are you that guy Bosak trying to push your own unreliable polls? Thanks --Tuvixer (talk) 22:27, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I am sorry to say, but you are simply out of mind. That's all I have to say to your ad hominem attacks. Please, report me and let non-Croatian users decide about the page content. And here is what he says for those accusations: http://direktno.hr/direkt/robert-bosak-odgovorio-svima-koji-ga-blokiraju-i-prozivaju-za-pristranost-29813/ StjepanHR (talk) 22:30, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Please stop editing the article while we have an ongoing discussion. Also try to engage third parties. Please stop edit warring. --Tuvixer (talk) 22:34, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't read direktno or dnevno because they are right wing antisemitic and pro fascist tabloid, stop citing them please. --Tuvixer (talk) 22:36, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I will stop reverting when you stop doing it yourself. Well, with you being a political fanatic who simply discards everything stated by his oponents, I don't think I can discuss anything with you. I repeat, find me a single Wikipedia rule under whcih the poll should be deleted. StjepanHR (talk) 22:41, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I will stop reverting when you stop doing it yourself. Well, with you being a political fanatic who simply discards everything stated by his oponents, I don't think I can discuss anything with you. I repeat, find me a single Wikipedia rule under whcih the poll should be deleted. StjepanHR (talk) 22:41, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

This matter is being discussed at the reliable sources noticeboard. Interested editors are welcome to continue discussion there, but are reminded to try to be civil and to keep discussion on the topic of whether the above sources meet the reliable sources guideline. Edit warring may be reported to the edit warring noticeboard. General grievances regarding editor behaviour may be reported to the administrator noticeboard. TheDragonFire (talk) 14:49, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I have aske for a Third Opinion. Further discussion (for third party information) can be seen here on WP:RSN: StjepanHR (talk) 13:02, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150104003257/http://www.dnevnik.ba/novosti/bih/hns-tra%C5%BEi-vi%C5%A1e-bira%C4%8Dkih-mjesta-u-bih-za-hrvatske-predsjedni%C4%8Dke-izbore to http://www.dnevnik.ba/novosti/bih/hns-tra%C5%BEi-vi%C5%A1e-bira%C4%8Dkih-mjesta-u-bih-za-hrvatske-predsjedni%C4%8Dke-izbore
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141205122948/http://predsjednicki-izbori.hr/vijesti/ids-podrzava-josipovica/ to http://predsjednicki-izbori.hr/vijesti/ids-podrzava-josipovica/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141213111132/http://www.hss.hr/component/content/article/29-sporedne/1314-glavni-odbor-hss-a-donio-odluku-da-je-predsjednika-kandidatkinja-kolinda-grabar-kitarovi-i-hss-ova-kandidatkinja to http://www.hss.hr/component/content/article/29-sporedne/1314-glavni-odbor-hss-a-donio-odluku-da-je-predsjednika-kandidatkinja-kolinda-grabar-kitarovi-i-hss-ova-kandidatkinja
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141209100716/http://josipovic.hr/ to http://www.josipovic.hr/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141209203848/http://kolinda.hr/ to http://www.kolinda.hr/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150209163730/http://www.milankujundzic.hr/ to http://www.milankujundzic.hr/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141209041245/http://www.s-p.hr/ to http://www.s-p.hr/

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