Talk:2015–16 Ohio State Buckeyes women's ice hockey season

Useless
Among articles on deep space, future of mankind, and mathematical theorems, this one crops up.

There are very few people who are interested in team composition of a "2015–16 Ohio State Buckeyes women's ice hockey season"

Myself, I just do not care.

Let us thus delete such crap. Zezen (talk) 07:49, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Do not delete
While I do not like to respond to trolls, I fear that I must in this instance.


 * Per notability guidelines within college hockey, a page on the season of an NCAA Division I team is of sufficient notability to remain in Wikipedia.
 * Wikipedia is an extensive, democratically created dictionary. We will certainly find articles on deep space et c.  We will also find many articles that delve into sports, culture, towns in Lithuania and species of moths.  These articles that "crop up" add to our general knowledge instead of detract from it.
 * I am offended, and feel that this is far too personal or prejudicial. While I accept that it may be true that an article about women's hockey may not engender the same interest or have the same gravity as perhaps the worldwide refugee crisis (and rightly so),  it is presumptuous to assume that "few people are interested".  Sports enthusiasts, Ohio State alum, feminists, and general readers might disagree. The Unites States passed "Title IX" laws several tears back, which are of vital interest to the subjects of feminism and American civil rights.  Besides, I enjoy random WP searches, and a stub about a species of moth found in New Guinea recently had mt attention for several minutes.
 * Finally and perhaps most importantly, the deletion request is replete with base and vitriolic chat, with phrases such as "crops up", "few people" and "such crap". This falls well below what ought to be civil discourse, and should not be tolerated in Wikipedia.

Bill McKenna (talk) 12:07, 1 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I think the nominator could have done without giving an explanation, but I have a few thoughts for you: The notability guideline for ice hockey says nothing about the notability of season rosters for college teams; this is a list, not an article as that term is commonly understood; the statement that few people are interested in such list articles is not an opinion but a claim of fact—[//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&agent=user&range=latest-90&pages=2015%E2%80%9316_Boston_University_Terriers_women%27s_ice_hockey_season a true one, it appears], and being offended by facts is not appropriate; and did you read the process document for proposed deletions? Rebb  ing  01:49, 2 April 2017 (UTC)


 * To be clear, I agree that Zezen's description of this article violates our civility policy, specifically WP:IUC § 1(d), by mocking the subject matter (contrasting it with more academic subjects) and describing it as "crap." But there's not much to be done about it. Rebb  ing  02:07, 2 April 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you Rebbing. Last night, I had written and then not posted a long explanation on several points you raised, but I think that raising those points here only draws any conversation back to a policy debate, and there is an appropriate forum at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women's sport/Watercooler to take this discussion further; I'll take things up there later  Still, you raise some excellent points, and point things in the right direction, so with my heart felt thanks,  Bill McKenna (talk) 13:22, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Dear @Bill McKenna and @ Rebb

Thank you for the discussion. Sorry for the late reply - I had some RL tasks to attend to.

You are reading too much about my motives. I am not against Women's sport (disclaimer: in fact I am a feminist) nor towns in Lithuania (in fact, I created an article or two about such "arcane" subjects, e.g. this one chetno i likho), but the comment hereinabove and the attempt at wp:prod was my feeble protest at what Wikipedia is becoming: a collection of crappy US trivia. (Yes, I used this word again, as it craps up the rest of WP. Or would you prefer the term "lame" as in Lamest edit wars?)

Now, consider this:

Have you heard of Kastenlauf? No? Click here then: Kastenlauf. I am sure that you also know of Alpagut Turan Martial Art.

Now, bearing in mind that this sport is a German invention, imagine a list of 1993 flat-bottomed (or Mensa members, whatever) participants of a Kastenlauf "run" or Alpagut competition in Mtunzini as a Wikipedia article. Oh, you have not heard of Mtunzini?

Now compare it with the length and depth of e.g. German folk dancing.

Do you get my drift?

Before you get into any further ad hominem: I am not German nor South African. Granted, I practice single-person Kastenlauf from Biedronka, on the other hand. Oh, you have never heard of Biedronka, a controversial corporation which actions affect millions of people? Q.v. then. You see, it is not mentioned in this article at all.

Less mockingly now: all such pseudo-articles, that lists of 1992 Kastenlauf runners from the Agrawal caste, competing in Florence (the Alabama one) suffer from USA WP:BIAS and have no place in (worldwide English) Wikipedia.

Read this Guardian's piece if you are still not convinced.

Your thoughts? Zezen (talk) 09:12, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Dear Zezen,

Now here is some criticism I can use! How do I efficiently unpack this? First, I accept your challenge of an on-line Kastenlauf challenge from Florence (the Italian one) to Mtunzini (the Texas one) provided that the materiel is neither from America nor the 'house' Biedronka vintage. Also, if I now add a comma after Biedronka in your reply then I am guilty of online gnoming.

Second, and perhaps in way of clarification, and a rare American olive branch, I agree that Americans are overly fond of their preeminence in being preeminent. Being an old, caucasian, male American you may be tempted to hide the children; I can, however, suggest that I am an exception to this exceptionalism. In fact, to paraphrase an ascendent American demagogue, 'I am the least non-humble person you will ever meet.'

Per the matter of 2015-16 Ohio State women's hockey, a review of that article shows it to be wanting for 'non-list' content, which I hope to remedy with time. I believe it was correct to categorize this as a 'Start' class, with the caveat that it needs some attention for it to rise above a possible 'list'. What I am playing at, though, is getting the sport of women's ice hockey up to par in Wikipedia. As an American, I know the American institutions best, but I hope to see Canadian (MOS issue - Can I refer to US as American, then refer to Canada seperately? It seems awkward to do otherwise), European and Asian teams similarly documented. I have no interest in trivial US-centric heaping on. I should hardly think it worthwhile to make America grate (again?).

I have to face facts that maybe all aspects of sport, perhaps all of culture, and in fact possibly the whole of human experience are trivial. I'm sorry. It's all I've got. Nonetheless, I can say that your more recent good-natured prod has made me feel that you value civility, and not a little wit. Thank you. Bill McKenna (talk) 23:59, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Esteemed @Bill McKenna

Congrats on your civility, too!

Shamelesly zilching a known poem, wp:copyvio nothwithstanding:

Gnome me if you must, but wouldn't it be better

To paint a sketch, or fix the letter,

Pen an art, or plant a wikispecies;

Ponder the difference between crap and feces?

Dox me if you must, but there's not much time,

With brews to swim in, and beer crates to climb;

Music to hear, and wikinews to read;

Friends to cherish, and life to lead.

ANI me if you must, but the world's out there

With sails to rudder, and the wind in your hair;

A flutter of snow, a wikivoyage of rain,

This day will not come around again.

Un-PROD me if you must, but bear in mind,

WP may wither, your karma untwined.

And when you go (and go you must)

You, yourself, will make wine's crust.

Now, in furtherance of the above and the WP:AGF spirit itself, while wisely steering clear of the 'house' Biedronka vintage, you are welcome to co-kastenlauf e.g. Royal Brewery of Krušovice or Staropramen, if you happen to fly in to WRO, PRA or SIN (sic!) in near future, O, Bill McKenna! . Zezen (talk) 14:53, 8 April 2017 (UTC)