Talk:2015 Formula One World Championship/Archive 3

Sporting regulations
During this weeks talks in Abu Dhabi and Geneva F1 has come to senses and have voted against the radio ban, Standing SC starts and double points. Also Caterham, when saved, can start the season with the 2014 engine and chassis so there is more time to sell the team. Source is AMuS 87.212.50.172 (talk) 13:19, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * According to that source, Caterham's proposal has not been accepted yet. The other things you pointed out are correct. Tvx1 (talk) 14:24, 26 November 2014 (UTC)


 * As fas as I am aware, the WMSC has not met just yet, so we can't use it as a source.


 * It might be best if we wait for the page protection to expire, rather than request a multitude of edits. Unless an admin is willing to reconsider the page protection. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 19:21, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * It's a reliable source. Auto Motor and Sport is the German equivalent of Autosport magazine (who have reported this as well, by the way). Tvx1 (talk) 20:40, 26 November 2014 (UTC)


 * It might be a reliable source, but the WMSC need to ratify the changes first. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 20:50, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know. Tvx1 (talk) 21:01, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Full Protection


This page has been full protected for ten days starting today. A fully protected page can be edited or moved only by administrators. Modifications to a fully protected page can be proposed on this page (or at another appropriate forum) for discussion. Administrators can make changes to the protected article reflecting consensus. Placing the template on this talk page will draw the attention of administrators for implementing uncontroversial changes. Thanks.  Wifione  Message 02:58, 22 November 2014 (UTC)


 * In light of demonstrated constructive discussion on this talk page and considering 's total absence&mdash;thereby making a resolution impossible&mdash;and his forum shopping here, on user talk pages, at 3RR and DRN, I would like to ask to please downgrade the page protection to allow editing to resume. At this point, I think it is quite clear that the page protection is only playing into Eightball's hands by enabling him to abuse the system and force through his preferred edits. I do not think that the article should suffer because one editor refused to recognise a consensus. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 07:12, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Prisonermokeys. If you could post the unprotect request at RFPP, that would get more eyes to the request. I would prefer keeping the protection in place for the full duration of ten days. Thanks.  Wifione  Message 14:50, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 28 November 2014
From:
 * Max Verstappen, the son of former driver Jos Verstappen, will become the youngest driver to make his Formula One debut at the age of 17 years, 164 days when he starts the 2015 season with Scuderia Toro Rosso. Verstappen's promotion was considered controversial, as he will make his debut after a single season in open-wheel racing, having contested the FIA European Formula Three Championship in 2014.

To:
 * Max Verstappen, the son of former driver Jos Verstappen, will become the youngest driver to make his Formula One debut at the age of 17 years, 164 days when he starts the 2015 season with Scuderia Toro Rosso. Verstappen's promotion was considered controversial, as he will make his debut after a single season in open-wheel racing, having contested the FIA European Formula Three Championship in 2014. After the 2014 season, Jean-Eric Vergne elected to leave the team, ending his 4-year relationship with Toro Rosso.

Just add the ref tag, left it out here to not clutter the talk page with references. Twirlypen (talk) 01:53, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * @, you can use the markup <*nowiki> and <*/nowiki> (without asterisks) to show raw markup. That way, the above reference will appear like this:
 * It might make life a bit easier in future. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 05:28, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done using the version of the ref as provided by - it has Sky Sports F1BSkyB which the original proposal lacked. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:03, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done using the version of the ref as provided by - it has Sky Sports F1BSkyB which the original proposal lacked. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:03, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 28 November 2014 (2)
On the Driver Changes section, I see an error. There should be "Jean-Éric Vergne", not "Jean-Eric Vergne". ;) ---[ DanishSGTFan123 ]--- 17:33, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I copied it verbatim (see thread above) without checking for diacritics. Yes check.svg Done -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:49, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Sainz to race for Scuderia Toro Rosso
http://www.scuderiatororosso.com/article/sainz-race-scuderia-toro-rosso

Scuderia Toro Rosso is pleased to announce that Carlos Sainz will join the team with immediate effect. It means that our driver line-up for the 2015 season is now established as Max Verstappen and Carlo Sainz. --Anttipng (talk) 18:21, 28 November 2014 (UTC) outdent}}

Could an administrator edit the following:

to:

Thanks, Tvx1 (talk) 18:41, 28 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I have corrected your nomination to properly display Sainz's name as per standards for Junior titles. The359  ( Talk ) 18:47, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but shouldn't we retain the official spelling of his name? Tvx1 (talk) 19:30, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

And could the text in the Driver Changes subsection please be updated to list Vettel's move first, and update the entry for Toro Rosso to the following: Hopefully I got the reference names right. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 19:19, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Sebastian Vettel will leave Red Bull Racing at the end of the 2014 season after fifteen years with the team and its wider junior development programme to join Ferrari in the place of Fernando Alonso. Red Bull promoted Daniil Kvyat from Toro Rosso to fill the seat vacated by Vettel.
 * With Kvyat promoted and Jean-Éric Vergne electing to leave the team after the season was completed, Toro Rosso's driver line-up was completely overhauled. In their place, the team chose reigning Formula Renault 3.5 Series champion Carlos Sainz, Jr., the son of two-time World Rally Champion Carlos Sainz; and 2014 FIA Formula Three runner-up Max Verstappen&mdash;the son of former driver Jos Verstappen&mdash; who will become the youngest driver to make his Formula One début at the age of 17 years, 164 days when he starts the 2015 season.
 * I'm just going to tag here, as I am not sure the edit request template was included properly at the top of this section and I don't know how to fix it. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 19:24, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I corrected your description of the events to make them more accurate with the sources. Tvx1 (talk) 19:39, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The broke because it was colon-indented; same goes for the . The two tables also shouldn't be colon-indented, because that can break the page later on. My first q is: why is the ref for Sainz formatted like that? It pushes the table right out across the screen. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:45, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I wrapped it with the nowiki markup as proposed during the previous edit request. The nowise markup should of course be left out when the edit is entered in the actual article. Tvx1 (talk) 19:54, 28 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Please instead change it to:

Which addressed a MOS:NOFLAG issue and makes the table HTML5 compliant. This request is based on the above request and does not address the content change, just the technical aspects of the requested changes. Please ping me if this request is declined so that I may make a separate request to just address these same issues in the current version of the table. Thank you. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 19:48, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Disagree. The neutral flag icon we use does not form a problem with MOS:NOFLAG. That text advises not to use a flag instead of a picture of a subject. That's an entirely different issue. The table in the original edit request is the one that should be put into the article. Tvx1 (talk) 20:00, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I can't work out what's going on here. There are now three tables, and some of the posts have been hacked about since my last edit. I explained why certain colons were undesirable - and they got put right back in again. They have since been removed again, but other stuff was also removed or added for which there was no need to change at all.
 * The only reason that  was used in the section (which has been hatted for some reason - we normally only do that to off-topic threads, not for on-topic discussions when there is general agreement) was because there was no  or similar. This section has a, so there is no need to  the refs. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:20, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 28 November 2014 (3)
To whom it may concern:

Carlos Sainz, Jr. was today (Nov. 28, 2014) confirmed as a Toro Rosso driver for 2015. The edit I propose is to the "Signed Teams and Drivers section to reflect this. The following URL is used as a source for this information: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2014/11/16706.html

Thank you for your time

Adamjlast (talk) 22:11, 28 November 2014 (UTC)Adamjlast

Adamjlast (talk) 22:11, 28 November 2014 (UTC)


 * @, how about you read the previous discussions first? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:42, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: This has already been requested in the above section. Tvx1 (talk) 23:00, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I was not aware that some people had already attempted to address this. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Adamjlast (talk) 00:38, 29 November 2014 (UTC)Adamjlast

Trying again
@ there are two changes that we would like to be made.

Firstly, can you please delete the entire Scuderia Toro Rosso entry from the team and driver table, and replace it with the following. I will use nowiki so that you can copy and past the markup directly: Secondly, can you please delete the first two dot points in the "Driver Changes" section and replace it with the following (again using nowiki to make it easier to copy-paste:


 * Sebastian Vettel will leave Red Bull Racing at the end of the 2014 season after fifteen years with the team and its wider junior development programme to join Ferrari in the place of Fernando Alonso. Red Bull promoted Daniil Kvyat from Toro Rosso to fill the seat vacated by Vettel.
 * With Kvyat promoted and Jean-Éric Vergne electing to leave the team after the season was completed, Toro Rosso's driver line-up was completely overhauled. In their place, the team chose reigning Formula Renault 3.5 Series champion Carlos Sainz, Jr., the son of two-time World Rally Champion Carlos Sainz; and 2014 FIA Formula Three runner-up Max Verstappen&mdash;the son of former driver Jos Verstappen&mdash; who will become the youngest driver to make his Formula One début at the age of 17 years, 164 days when he starts the 2015 season.

I don't know why the nowiki was used the first time. It shouldn't have been. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 20:30, 28 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Just forget about nowiki, it makes it more difficult to see the intended effect. Copying the markup should be a simple case of opening the edit window and copying whats there, and nowiki makes that more difficult too. To demonstrate a table (even if it's just two rows), use normal table-start and table-end markers. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:21, 28 November 2014 (UTC)


 * @&mdash;that's exactly the effect that we are after: Sainz in the table, the Toro Rosso drivers listed alphabetically, and the dot points on driver moves changed to reflect the movements of drivers. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:48, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, Yes check.svg Done -- Red rose64 (talk) 01:17, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 29 November 2014
There's a bad ref tag on the first bullet point of the Driver Changes section.

Twirlypen (talk) 02:08, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

In the driver changes section please change the following from:


 * Sebastian Vettel will leave Red Bull Racing at the end of the 2014 season after fifteen years with the team and its wider junior development programme to join Ferrari in the place of Fernando Alonso. Red Bull promoted Daniil Kvyat from Toro Rosso to fill the seat vacated by Vettel.

to:


 * Sebastian Vettel will leave Red Bull Racing at the end of the 2014 season after fifteen years with the team and its wider junior development programme to join Ferrari in the place of Fernando Alonso. Red Bull promoted Daniil Kvyat from Toro Rosso to fill the seat vacated by Vettel.

Thanks, Tvx1 (talk) 02:19, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:58, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 29 November 2014
Please remove the German flag from the season calendar until a venue is decided, per DRN resolution. Thanks.

Twirlypen (talk) 22:00, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Next time, please link to the DRN discussion. While I don't question you, I've seen some interesting 'interpretations' of how things were resolved before. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 02:33, 30 November 2014 (UTC)


 * My apologies. I have never participated in a DNR before and do not know proper request etiquette. I assume you mean I have some interesting 'interpretations' of how things were resolved before. I'm interested in hearing some examples, because I have never been accused of disregarding consensus, vandalizing, or anything of the sorts. If I have, it was unknowing that a previous consensus was reached and I was corrected and I apologized for my indiscretions. Not only that, but also because I want to become a better editor and if there are things I am doing wrong, I'd like to know. Thanks. Twirlypen (talk) 03:28, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I shouldn't have said that. I meant that I was going to review the DRN discussion anyways just to make sure. This was very minor but some discussions aren't as clear-cut. You're doing great with the real work, collaboration. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:06, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done by Ricky81682. Tvx1 (talk) 15:32, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 27 November 2014 (2)
From:

to:

Contested assumption/WP:OR that Circuit TBA is and always will be a German circuit in the future requires a source trumping the most recent FIA provisional calendar. If this can be made without altering the format of the table as shown in the request, then that would be preferred. Twirlypen (talk) 23:36, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The discussion at WP:DRN is not yet completed, we shouldn't try changing the table until it is done. — Gyaro  –  Maguus — 00:19, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not a change, it's a tag that a citation is needed. Twirlypen (talk) 00:26, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Any edit classifies as a change in my eyes. The typical actions regarding issues in dispute on protected pages is to leave the page as is until the issue is resolved, regardless of whichever version it remains on.  — Gyaro  –  Maguus — 00:41, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. For the record, while I have my opinion that it should remain blank while TBA, I won't be terribly broken up over it if it is decided that the flag should remain. Twirlypen (talk) 01:00, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Part of my brain says flag, part of says no flag, part of it says we are putting the flag in wrong column (read my posts/notes in the DRN and you would understand). All I will say though is that this will look stupid in hindsight.  — Gyaro  –  Maguus — 01:09, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've been keeping up with the DRN. I get both sides and I don't have too big an issue as to whether or not a flag is next to TBA, but rather the arguments behind it that one editor has used in that every other instance where a Grand Prix namesake event was held outside of that country is different and doesn't matter, because things, to the point that he claims that it has NEVER happened in the history of Formula One. Plain and simple, no buts about it, the point is that regardless of intent, it HAS happened many, many times in the past. Twirlypen (talk) 01:20, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * We'll see. I'll stop being neutral tomorrow and try to end this.  — Gyaro  –  Maguus — 01:52, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * At the risk of taking sides - the most obvious instance of a race taking place in a different country is the San Marino Grand Prix, which was never held in San Marino - all 26 times that the race was run, the venue was the Autodromo Enzo e Dino Ferrari, which is in Italy, and some 70 km outside San Marino. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:31, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, and they were nevertheless organized by Automobile Club of San Marino. Tvx1 (talk) 14:55, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. So long as a WP:DRN is open on this very matter, there can be no consensus yet; so per WP:PER an edit request is inappropriate. -- Red rose64 (talk) 10:54, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request 29th November 2014
As mentioned above, Hamilton's number should changed from 44, as we don't know which number he will use. The table should changed to:


 * Not done - Hamilton has already confirmed that he will use #44. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 12:33, 29 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi. Could you elaborate on why you think it hasn't been confirmed? Preferable through providing reliable sources? Tvx1 (talk) 15:40, 29 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Can you guys put number 55 for driver Carlos Sainz Jr.? It has already confirmed to run that number. Bandon23 (talk) 21:37 29 November 2014 (GMT)


 * Carlos Sainz has chosen number 55. http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/319776/sainz-jr-to-race-number-55-in-formula-1/
 * Lewis Hamilton will retain number 44. http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/319581/
 * Twirlypen (talk) 21:56, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Could an administrator change the following:

to:

Thanks, Tvx1 (talk) 22:09, 29 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I think we should wait for an entry list first. Just because Sainz wants #55, that doesn't mean that he will get #55. While last year's system was done by ballot, there's not much on how the FIA intends to do things this year - who is to say Verstappen or Nasr won't have their hearts set on #55 as well? And who gets first choice? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:37, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The source clearly says he will use it. Not that he just wants it. I would say that who asks first is served first. The source is adamant enough for this to be included. Tvx1 (talk) 23:19, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * PM, I'm almost certain when the FIA went to this format, they expressly made it clear that numbers 2-99 were on a first come, first served basis. Further, I believe a driver could submit a request to change their number to one that was already taken should the driver that previously had it leave Formula One. If Verstappen or Nasr wanted 55, they could have easily claimed it when they were signed. Twirlypen (talk) 00:11, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:35, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Hamilton's racing number
He is currently listed with 44 in the list. Should it be changed with a note that he may use number 1 if he wants to do so? BleuDXXXIV (talk) 15:38, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * No, it should remain 44 until he choses to use 1 (if he does). I'm not so sure about a note though. Tvx1 (talk) 16:13, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * No, there is no need for a note. Just leave it as it is until we get an entry list&mdash;just as we have done in the past. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 18:43, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Hamilton has confirmed that he will not use #1 next year, and he will instead continue to use #44. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 09:24, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
 * This isn't a confirmation, it's just him saying that he wants to use it next year. He says in the article that he will 'work hard to get the team to use #44', nothing has been confirmed yet. Should be TBC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.197.190.20 (talk) 14:36, 27 November 2014 (UTC)


 * The team can try to influence him to use #1 for promotional purposes (A Mercedes with a 1 on it is more valuable to advertisers than a 44), but the decision on which number to use is entirely up to Lewis. If he says he WANTS to use #44, his permanent number for his Formula One career, then it should remain #44. Twirlypen (talk) 01:22, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not that convinced that a #1 Mercedes is more valuable to advertisers than a #44 one. If he had changed his number they would have had to change all their merchandising. Preventing that is one of the many reasons why this permanent number system was introduced in the first place. And that's why Vettel probably did use the #1. Because that allowed him to retain the number he had been using for three years already, preventing advertisers from having to change their merchandising. Tvx1 (talk) 16:21, 30 November 2014 (UTC)


 * In this case, would it be best to change it to TBC, as it is indeed to be confirmed if he'll use #1 or #44? I think that's most probably the best idea - it's not as firm a statement of fact as having either number listed, so it allows either case to be true, and once an FIA entry list is published which confirms the number, we can change it to the appropriate number. What do you think? 78.148.96.189 (talk) 16:36, 30 November 2014 (UTC)


 * No. Until such time as he confirms that he will use #1, we can reasonably assume he will use #44, because that number is the number assigned to him, and is the number he will carry throughout his career&mdash;should he choose to use #1, the FIA will put #44 in reserve for him do that no-one else can use it. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 20:04, 30 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I understand how the number system works, my thought was that as it is genuinely in flux, and there is a 50:50 chance that he'll use either of those numbers, to state it as fact that he WILL use one of them seems to me to be a bit misleading. My personal view is that no assumption is as reasonable as stating that ambiguity exists. It seems to me more factually accurate to state TBC than to state either number, purely based on an assumption, and a throwaway remark in an interview. 86.171.134.54 (talk) 00:35, 1 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't think you can reasonably call it a fifty-fifty chance that he will use #1. He has said it himself&mdash;he wants to use #44, and so until such time as that changes, we should keep it as #44. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 00:40, 1 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I concur that it should remain 44 until it comes out that he won't use it, if that ever does happen. Twirlypen (talk) 04:55, 1 December 2014 (UTC)