Talk:2015 Southeast Asian haze/Archive 1

Additional coverage of haze in the news
Additional coverage of haze in the news of Singapore, feel free to use:
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--huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 02:02, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I won't be so active to update this article regularly as I'm also currently affected with the haze. (Got a sore throat and tonsillitis as a result from the haze. X_X) So I will let any other editors to update this. :) ~ Muffin Wizard;) 10:32, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you also to those who helping to expand this article. Is there any who have any free map about the haze? For example like NASA satellite images. ~ Muffin Wizard;) 15:32, 17 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Good question. --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 05:41, 19 September 2015 (UTC)


 * As I was reading about Global warming controversy (as a american political person stated that the origin of this problem is china), my contact who knows the "haze" topic for a long time, shared a website with me, where we could start looking for the right NASA satellite images. Let me know! --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 12:37, 20 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks, wow, so surprised to see the map with those gargantuan red dots. ~ Muffin Wizard;) 02:26, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Candidate for Wikipedia in the news...
I'm not able to do that, but why not nominate this article on: In_the_news/Candidates? --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 14:18, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I want to nominate it at the CE, but I don't know how. The method seems different from the ITN. ~ Muffin Wizard;) 02:26, 25 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Same here, I have no experience with that, can you ask the guys there? :) --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 02:37, 25 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I think it will appear automatically when they (the admins) choose for it as I see it has been listed on the  Ongoing events. ~ Muffin Wizard;) 03:00, 25 September 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't think so, that's just that the schools are closed in Singapore, not mentioning the word "haze" :) --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 07:06, 25 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Now I see it, cool. --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 04:58, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Why the heck do we use differnt standards to display the same issue? #StoptheHaze

 * Malaysia: Selected hourly API readings in major cities in September 2015 based on PM10 (why can't we say 1-hour API readings?)
 * Singapore: 3-hour PSI readings, based on PM2.5 and PM10 concentration

I'll guess that does confuse any reader as we're not talking about the same things in detail.

I mean whatever we do here in Wikipedia will not fix the situation with the Haze, but why the heck are we using two different readings and the reading for Malaysia does not even contain the timeframe of the reading? --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 05:22, 25 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Malaysia and Singapore use different standards. Malaysia has yet to monitor PM2.5 although there's plan to do so. You might want to explore the details a little further. And Malaysia, quite obviously, is larger than Singapore, hence the multiple (selected location) readings. As a result, it's impractical to list Malaysian readings the way Singapore does it. Thus, the term "selected." And I don't understand your point about "does not even contain the timeframe of the reading?". You might need to explain that __earth (Talk) 10:16, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Bold or de-bold table data?
There is no need to bold all numbers in tables for emphases, especially when MOS:BOLD discourages it. But how do we de-bold tables? --George Ho (talk) 21:44, 4 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The tables were created nested inside a header row. I've removed the nesting and used table captions instead. --180.180.181.91 (talk) 08:53, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

De-collapse tables?
MOS:COLLAPSE discourages hiding tables that may not be adequately summarized in main article. Shall we de-collapse the table to abide to the guideline? As for mobile users, shall we show them tables? --George Ho (talk) 14:44, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I think the main reason for collapsing is that the tables are super long (one of them contains something like hourly reading for the last 2 months), so they become very distracting if expanded. Not sure what the appropriate treatment is. HaEr48 (talk) 04:40, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Then why having data tables here? You can't conceal tables unless they are retold in prose. If they are attractions to readers, why else collapsing them (besides size)? --George Ho (talk) 05:22, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I think they are distractions. Having such detailed records are nice, but not sure if this Wikipedia page is the place for that. But I didn't want to just delete them, out of respect to contributors who wrote them. Good idea about retelling them in prose. How about this. Only have the table for the last couple of days (e.g. last 5 days), but use prose to highlight previous interesting point? (e.g. we can say that it peaked at xxx on 15 September, or something like that). If this is done, we can stop collapsing the tables since it's not so long anymore. HaEr48 (talk) 06:18, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, according to guideline, if retold in prose, you can collapse a table. However, to retell a prose version, you must use good sources. --George Ho (talk) 07:01, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Data tables of API and PSI readings

 * The following discussion is closed. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
 * Consensus unanimously favors removing statistics tables from the article. --George Ho (talk) 07:36, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Tables of pollutant readings on Malaysia and Singapore have been included in this article. Over time, the data has become larger and larger, although data (plural for datum) were split into months and portions of hours. Editing will become more difficult at this size. Currently, the article's topic is "Ongoing" on Main Page; (Pulled out of "Main Page".) we still have tables. Shall we keep or remove tables from the article? --George Ho (talk) 02:16, 15 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Remove: Though it is no skin off my nose, (not my field, not my country) the idea of accumulating or even just maintaining tables of volatile data in an article is very hard to support. Yes, it can be done. Yes the data might be of use. However, the article then depends on indefinite support by committed parties and on responsible citations to boot. No one can guarantee anything of the kind indefinitely, and the presence of increasingly stale and questionable routine data would not reflect well on our standard of articles. If there were a special reason for documenting items of particular interest, such as record levels or suitably supported digests of special contexts or trends, that would be another matter, but routine data, no, I don't think so. JonRichfield (talk) 06:44, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Remove: I changed my mind and as Wikipedia is anyway never a primary source of information, there are plenty other places to visit and access the data anyway. --huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 01:48, 23 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Remove - I think its an inefficient way of keeping data. Constantly accumulating data into a table on Wikipedia does not come easy to the eye nor will it attract readers, it might actually deter them from the article.  Perhaps a paragraph "summarizing" the data would be a more efficient and simple way to portray results.  There are other places on the internet where this data should be accumulated.  I agree with user JonRichfield on this.  Cheers,  Comatmebro  User talk:Comatmebro 23:47, 20 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Remove: If we were to record PSI and API, we should do it on a separate page from this. Yes,I understand that the reason for having tables is for showing trend of the haze, but NASA expects this haze to continue till November. A possible change will be a table showing the PSI/API levels for days with "Very Unhealthy" or "Hazardous" ratings. Mount2010 (talk) 13:35, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Remove JonRichfield provided good reasons above. In addition, the very long tables (and unfortunately it may grow even longer if the crisis persists) makes the article less user friendly, since you have to scroll down quite a bit to get to the next part of the article. In mobile browsers, it's even worse because the collapsing doesn't work (at least in my phone). You also need to scroll down a lot when editing (although not always, depending on how you edit and which section) HaEr48 (talk) 17:53, 21 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Remove Agree with . While it is good to describe the condition level. But why only listed two countries API/PSI, we should listed all the affected countries API/PSI if we want to describe the whole conditions, not just Malaysia and Singapore as this article is about Southeast Asian haze. Just like HaEr48 have said, the table also affecting my edits (especially when I'm using a slow internet connection). ~ Muffin Wizard;) 00:02, 22 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Remove per all of the above and WP:NOTSTATSBOOK - HyperGaruda (talk) 08:51, 22 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Remove/Move - Material doesn't look appropriate in this article. - If you want to keep this material on WP, consider putting it in a different article. NickCT (talk) 15:03, 22 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Update - I removed the data tables per up-to-date unanimous support. Talk still continues until it dies down or RfC tag is removed. George Ho (talk) 04:30, 23 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Remove - pleased to see they are already gone. Maproom (talk) 06:53, 23 October 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

2015 WTA Finals - no impact?
The 2015 WTA Finals is a women's tennis tournament at Singapore. It will be the 45th edition of the singles event and the 40th edition of the doubles competition. The tournament will be contested by eight singles players and eight doubles teams.


 * I read that the prices are $7,000,000 (even it's at the Singapore Indoor Stadium)
 * What is the impact on this international event by the 2015 Southeast Asian haze, while the PSI readings are above 200 at the time of this post?
 * Did any of the tennis player cancel their participation due to the outdoor haze conditions (personal health over money)?
 * Did any of the visitors cancel their visit (personal health over money)?

--huggi - never stop exploring (talk) 09:43, 23 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Serena Williams withdrew on 1 October but that wasn't the stated reason--she also withdrew from Beijing.(I just got back from Singapore, but only went to one of the free youth matches, mostly to get out of the haze. I will testify it was like breathing hot, dirty soup and I was sick the last two days. I still don't feel 100 percent, though it may be jet lag).  There were outdoor fan activities and souvenir stands when I dropped by. And when I visited the Marina Bay Sands there were sure a lot of people with credentials from the tournament ...--Wehwalt (talk) 00:26, 30 October 2015 (UTC)