Talk:2018 Great Britain and Ireland cold wave

December 2017 weather event
Just a thought but I wonder if there's scope to include the December 2017 cold wave in this article, and rename it something like Winter of 2017–18 in Great Britain and Ireland or Winter of 2017–18 in Western Europe. We have several other winters where there was more than one significant weather event, such as 1990–91 and 2009–10. Any thoughts? This is Paul (talk) 18:54, 2 March 2018 (UTC)


 * I would definitely support changing the scope of this article to include the wider European effects of the "Beast from the east" coldwave.Lacunae (talk) 20:31, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

I agree to.Trish pt7 (talk) (talk) 20:43, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Worst since when?
The 'Beast from the East' text originally said it was expected to be the worst winter in Ireland for at least 30 years. The text has been removed without explanation (by this edit), tho the citations and supporting quotes for this are still there. I don't know why this was done so I'm a bit hesitant to restore it myself. Meanwhile our lead says it's considered the worst winter weather event for Britain and Ireland since 2010, based on a 10 days old article that only applies to the Cambridge area and that says it may be worse than 2010. But, for the reason already given above, plus WP:NOTCOMPULSORY and WP:BNO, I'd prefer, at least initially, to leave both points to be fixed by some editor(s) more interested and better informed than I am. Tlhslobus (talk) 02:59, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * There are lots of Express articles comparing it with 1963, but they do like their weather stories over at Lower Thames Street. The worst in thirty years is used quite a bit. I suspect it's probably comparable with 1990–91 (that also being a year the Army were called out to help stranded motorists), but it would be useful if someone would say that. This is Paul (talk) 14:20, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The unexplained removal of 'expected worst in Ireland for at least 30 years' (while leaving the sources) is not from the Express, but by a professor writing in The Irish Times and by a source quoting the spokesperson for Met Eireann, so I'm going to at least temporarily restore it 'per Talk'. All the above-mentioned objections remain to what we say in the lead, so I'm adding a CN, and explaining why in its Reason parameter. Tlhslobus (talk) 22:39, 3 March 2018 (UTC)


 * My above-mentioned cn has been removed by User:KeyKing666 with the claim that a citation was already there; and the citation adddress was then changed, but scarcely any of the issues have been adequately addressed.
 * The latest citation is12 days out-of-date (and thus completely at variance with the verb "is" in our text, which implies a fact, not a prediciton), only mentions 2010 in the context of Cambridgeshire ('A 'Big Freeze' worse than 2010 is about to hit Cambridgeshire'), says it is expected to be worse than 2010 (not 'the worst since 2010'), makes no mention of 2010 as regards Britain as a whole and only mentions 'some forecasts' ('Some forecasts indicate the cold snap could be one of the most severe seen for several years in Britain'), refers to a Big Freeze and a cold snap, not a 'weather event' (which could include hurricanes, etc), and makes no mention of Ireland (where two more recent sources expected the worst for at least 30 years).
 * I am therefore restoring my CN with the above reasons. Per WP:VERIFY, etc, please do NOT remove it again without fixing the above mentioned problems, unless you also remove the entire sentence as inadequately sourced, or modify it to say only what is clearly supported by the source. Tlhslobus (talk) 00:44, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Greenland Northern blocking and the Polar Vortex split
Should the northern blocking established over Greenland during this week following the split in the polar vortex not be mentioned fairly prominently in the Beast from the East section? This cold air mass would not have been able to reach the UK and Ireland if the usual conveyor belt of Atlantic rain systems hadn't been held back by the aforementioned block over Greenland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.18.101.17 (talk) 03:03, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * And while we're at it, should we also mention that the Guardian (here, an article we're already citing for other reasons) says Southern England could get colder than the Arctic, partly because Global Warming has (allegedly) ensured that the Arctic is some 17 to 22 degrees Centigrade warmer than normal (which the Guardian may have intended as a pre-emptive reply to the unstated argument that the cold spell contradicts Global Warming)? (I suspect that maybe we should, per WP:NOTCENSORED and to keep our readers informed about what a WP:RS is saying about the cold spell, but past experience deters me from risking a row over Global Warming which can be expected to be just too much hassle even if it eventually succeeds). Tlhslobus (talk) 03:21, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Not just GB and IE
Hey, it was also really really cold in the Netherlands. --1Veertje (talk) 10:07, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
 * And in many other countries in Europe and Asia. I can't see any good reason to restrict the scope of this article to the British Isles. Jim Michael (talk) 21:13, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * It has hit several places including northern Germany, Romania, Moscow city, Poland, Serbia...Trish pt7 (talk) (talk) 20:45, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Fatality figures
Has anyone questioned the official fatality figures per nation? It is difficult for me to accept they were so low for the majority of countries affected by this or these two weather events. For instance, we know that people died from the extreme temperatures because they had nowhere to live and slept on the streets. Others would have passed away at home alone - elderly, ill, disabled as a consequence of these events. I cannot see any evidence that this article, let alone the official toll figures accept that that did happen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.200.51.167 (talk) 14:13, 10 May 2020 (UTC)