Talk:2019 Kentucky Derby

Scratch
What does the word "scratch" mean, in the context of this article? Perhaps the article can clarify and/or provide a Wiki-link? Some people not familiar with horse-racing will also be unfamiliar with that term. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:42, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * link to Glossary of North American horse racing added. Jlvsclrk (talk) 16:55, 5 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks.  Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 13:51, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Length
In the Results table, what does a "length" mean, in the Margin Column? Is it the "length" of a horse? If so, what is considered to be the length of a horse? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:52, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * link added. it's about 8.2 feet.Jlvsclrk (talk) 16:51, 5 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks.  Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 13:51, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Interference
Since there is no article on interference in horse racing, perhaps it should be defined in this article somewhere? Abductive (reasoning) 18:39, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * i reworded to clarify what the infraction was. LMK if more detail is still needed. Jlvsclrk (talk) 22:11, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Also, I don't know if we want to go into more detail about how the stewards reached their decision and why. The SI article has a fair bit of detail. In an ideal world, the stewards would have posted an "Inquiry" sign immediately after the race because the swerve was clearly visible and needed to be investigated. Apparently, they were looking at the matter but didn't post the sign which is weird to me as a horse racing fan. It caused no end of confusion because the only jockey that we heard about objecting was Prat on Country House, who actually was not that seriously affected. I also don't know if we want to put in something from War of Will's trainer, who originally declined to join the objection but realized later how serious the incident was. Jlvsclrk (talk) 21:54, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Maximum Security listed first?
I may be missing some style-based decision, but its odd to me that Maximum Security is top listed and not Country House? I think Country House should be finish "1", everyone else -1 (e.g., "5" to "4") and Maximum Security put at 17th place (see ). A note can be added to finishes 1 and 17 to explain the DQ. I would make the change myself, but want to check to make sure this does not go against a decision made elsewhere. Thoughts?RonSigPi (talk) 22:54, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree it's strange, but the time for the race is when Maximum Security crossed the finish line, and the margins are measured from him. So taking him out of first place takes away some of the context. And this is the way the official source displays the data - after all, there's a big difference from a future betting perspective between a horse finishing 17th and being placed 17th as a result of disqualification. But its equally strange to see Country House with a 2 beside him so I'll adjust that and add another note. Jlvsclrk (talk) 23:14, 5 May 2019 (UTC)


 * The chart now has Maximum Security listed in 17th place. There should be some type of note, within the chart section, to indicate that all of the "margins" are based off of Maximum Security's first-place finish (before the disqualification).   Thanks.  Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 13:53, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Odds
There are two columns in the Results Table: Morning Odds and Final Odds. The numbers are listed in a different format under each column. Shouldn't the odds be listed in some uniform way, under both columns? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:01, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Horse racing tradition! The morning line odds show the old fashioned way of displaying odds, which might have included weird numbers like 2-5 or 9-2 and the like (its just that with a 20 horse field, they just kind of ballpark the Derby morning line so everything winds up looking like 4-1 or 50-1). Newspaper articles will typically also use these old numbers, and might show Maximum Security's final odds as 9-2. The final odds shown in the official chart convert everything to decimals (eg 9-2 converts to 4.50) and are more precise, reflecting actual parimutuel payouts. Jlvsclrk (talk) 22:18, 6 May 2019 (UTC)


 * OK. Thanks.  I had no idea.  Thank you!   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:34, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

2019 Kentucky Derby ~ Country House (horse) First or before ~ physically ~
Maximum Security did not cross the finish line "first" because he was disqualified before he crossed the finish line, so technically Maximum Security did not cross the finish first, I keep getting editors undoing my edit and placing Maximum Security "first"~ that is why I wrote it that way ~ it gives the reader an impression that Maximum security won the race but that win was taken away from him ~ it is misleading to say "Maximum Security crossed first" ~ first is a place in a competition~ the way it looked on this revision crossed the finish line before is what I think should be there. I have noted that I was going bring this issue up here with -SusanLesch (talk) page unless she reverted ~ so lets get a consensus for both the Kentucky Derby and Country House (horse) pages Mitchellhobbs (talk) 18:09, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Nonsense because the horse physically crossed the line first, but thank you for watching over this. I reverted my edits just for you. Best wishes. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:19, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Interesting distinction - there's the formal sense that Maximum Security didn't win so could scarcely be said to finish first, and the informal sense that he crossed the finish line ahead of Country House by 1.75 lengths. Maybe say "crossed the finish line in the lead" or something like that to avoid confusion. Jlvsclrk (talk) 21:30, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Hey Jlvsclrk, nice of you to join the conversation lol I'm just thinking of off the top of my head ~ but if Maximum Security was disqualified for an infraction  before he crossed the finish line ~ would he have not lost 'the lead' at the time of the infraction? ~ like I said just thinking off the top of my head Mitchellhobbs (talk) 00:09, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
 * No, I would not say that. That Maximum Security crossed the finish line in the lead / in front is just reality. Jlvsclrk (talk) 00:43, 8 May 2019 (UTC)