Talk:2020 Pacific typhoon season/Archive 1

Some sort of edit war?
So I've been noticing a small edit war regarding the image of TD Ambo in the current infobox section. I would like to know why it's been added and removed because I find this odd. Typhoon2013 (talk) 03:26, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

10-min and 1-min winds
I have noticed in some Pacific typhoons, including Ambo/Vongfong, that the 10-min sustained winds are higher than the 1-min sustained winds. Why is this? I hope this isn’t a stupid question, as I mainly study Atlantic and Eastern Pacific hurricanes. NOOBSKINSPAMMER (talk) 14:09, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to the dark side of the project and its not a stupid question. We take the winds from the warning centres (JMA/JTWC) who analyse the system separately and dont always agree with each other. Jason Rees (talk) 14:31, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Suggestion: Small modification of the TyphoonWarningsTable template
Hello! I would like to suggest if the PAGASA TyphoonWarningsTable template be modified in such a way that the tropical cyclone warnings are ordered from highest to lowest, similar to how PAGASA presents them in their severe weather bulletin. I think it is better if higher warnings are placed in the first rows (as "top priority"). Thank you! —Nairb.Idi9 (talk)
 * Sure I'll try do something about it today. Typhoon2013  (talk) 22:51, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. :) Typhoon2013  (talk) 23:30, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you! —Nairb.Idi9 (talk)

Lead
The lead is really long. Most of the things there should be able to go into different sections. A five-paragraph lead is much longer than an article's lead usually should be on Wikipedia, and there's no need to make an exception for this article. MOS:LEAD says: As a general rule of thumb, a lead section should contain no more than four well-composed paragraphs and be carefully sourced as appropriate. Leads should have no more than four paragraphs. This one has five. I think most of that content should find its way into another section. 🐔Chicdat Chicken Database 12:54, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Dont worry to much about the lead for now as the season has only just started after all.Jason Rees (talk) 13:11, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Keeping storm sections succinct
Just because this is the season article, and PTS articles tend to be a larger article than the other basin articles, I'd advice to summarise or succinct the storm sections. We can provide as much as detail as possible when the storm article has been created. Kind regards, Typhoon2013  (talk) 00:29 12 June 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:08, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * 2020 Pacific Typhoon Season Summary Map.png

Anyone interested in working on Typhoons in the Ryukyu Islands, or Typhoons in Zhejiang?
Hagupit affected both territories. Given the importance of both of them (and any area in the WPAC, really), I wondered if anyone might be interested in helping write one of the articles above? ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 23:40, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I am entered. I haven't been on wikipedia that much lately, but, table format is fine right? Typhoon2013  (talk) 02:53, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Yea, the table format should be fine. These drafts might take a while to develop, so that's why I figured, let's get them started. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 11:17, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Im in. I think every Chinese province and Japanese territory that are threatened by typhoons deserve an article. For example could you also make a draft of Typhoons in Fujiang? By the way, i think maybe you could also change the drafts into categories, But its your decision. David The Meteorologist 🌦❄️🌪
 * Remember that you are the decision-maker as well, since nobody owns these articles. We are currently looking in general at what weather articles are needed by Wikipedia and I can confirm that Typhoons in Fujiang is on the list as are the rest of the Chinese Provinces. However, I would be curious to know which Japanese territories your thinking off and any thoughts you have on any other part of the list. However, im not personally sure about categorising Typhoon pages on Wikipedia into Chinese provinces is a good idea as it might be an over-categorisation.Jason Rees (talk) 22:16, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * A lot of Japanese islands like Iwo Jima and Ogasawara have Typhoons affecting them every year. These are the islands that I think deserve the article, as well as some other islands. Also I do agree with the over-categorization fact. So I could do it like a normal list of Typhoons. —  David The Meteorologist 🌦❄️🌪(talk)
 * Do you mean Fujian or Fujiang? Also, yea, Iwo Jima and Ogasawara might get affected every year, but they're so much less populated than, say, Zhejiang, Guangdong, Taiwan, or the Ryukyus. Even the Marianas Islands (Guam and CNMI combined) is affected yearly, but would be a good list to have. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 16:14, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Sinlaku draft
Sinlaku left much damage on Vietnam and Thailand, so I created a draft for Sinlaku. Could someone help? Regards, 👦 06:17, 6 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Um, no thanks. There have been plenty of minimal tropical storms that have hit this region and do not have articles. 2 deaths is not enough for an article, either. Not a notable system. If anything, Hagupit is more deserving of an article. Hurricaneboy23 (page) * (talk) 23:22, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , you didn't have to respond to that if you didn't want to help. Remember to keep a civil and peaceful tone. We're all just volunteers. I believe that most landfalling WPAC storms warrant articles, so yes, 2 deaths is often "enough for an article", because there are usually other effects caused by the storms that are worthy of documentation. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 16:16, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Hagupit article
I was wondering if anyone was already working on a Hagupit article and if not, should I? BananaIAm (talk) 03:29, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

people are being too lazy to source stuff and to even write properly
honestly we have to do something about the IPs and users who just add unsourced crap to the article.

some sections are poorly written (example Hagupit's section and the new TDs are also badly written) and some straight up lack citations because the southern asian users (and yet another example is the amount of IPs who just add crazy statements without any sources) being just too lazy to add sources and to properly even type english right Fleur  De  Odile  14:52, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't know how to help you except to request protection. ~ AC5230  talk  17:24, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * How about working on the article to try and improve it rather than bitching about the IP's and users, who dont necesseraily know how to add references.Jason Rees (talk) 20:31, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm just waiting for the report of caused damages of Sinlaku and Hagupit. Afterwards, I will update them. Regards, 👦 01:41, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Why Haishen Still not A Category 5???
Why Super Typhoon Haishen is Still Not A Category 5 Meanwhile Jctw Already Say That Haishen is Category 5 Super typhoon??? Triassic Mapping &#38; Science (talk) 05:34, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Because JTWC is not quite as reliable a lot less reliable than the Japan Meteorological Agency ( JMA ). 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  10:11, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Check the JTWC's running best track, they have Haishen's peak at 135 knots which is just below Category 5. JMA doesn't use the Saffir-Simpson scale in the first place since they use 10-min sustained winds. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 11:14, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * We only use information from government agencies and their websites. Some YouTube channels, like Firve Thirteen, say that Haishen is a C5, though their info is often unreliable, faulty, unrealistic, and unreasonable. ~ Destroyeraa 🌀 14:36, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Even though Haishen was listed as a 155 mph category 4 by the JTWC, satellite-derived wind data indicated that the storm was a powerful category 5. NOOBSKINSPAMMER (talk) 12:54, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Just noticed that there is another discussion about this, sorry.
 * Haishen was not a category 5. We don't even use SSHWS in WPAC. Stop saying it was a Category 5; it was a TYPHOON. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  10:33, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

By the way, a 155 mph Tropical cyclone is a Category 4. 🌀 Hurr icane Geek 🌀{talk ⋅ contribs}} 13:49, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Archived JTWC warnings
Hi! The WPAC basin unfortunately has a citation problem, and that editors rarely insert citations. You've probably seen me edit the page already, inserting citations with archive links. Since the original sources are very time-sensitive and can get 404'd within a month after a system dissipates and the same URL is also used for the latest version of each warning, I always made sure to back up the warnings with the Wayback Machine in order to ensure that the proper warning is always displayed.

However, I've recently been more busy due to school, so I'm no longer able to insert citations in a timely manner. I end up missing important warnings (such as the TCFAs that kick invests into tropical depressions) which means I no longer have a verifiable source for the warnings. So around September 28 UTC, mid-Kujira, I made a script that periodically scraped the JTWC RSS feed to grab archives of their warnings.

The place where I host the archived files is at https://wiki.chlod.net/jtwc.

There's two folders, a  folder and a   folder. The  folder contains TCFA and TCW graphics, and the   folder contains the warning text. The script runs every 10 minutes, and if a new version is found, it will save it along with a timestamp of when it was saved. It also updates a separate file with the latest version.

The website is just a plain old Apache server with  enabled. The code for the script itself is found here. A full detailed explanation of how the entire stack works is found here.

Why could I not have just used the Wayback Machine API? The Wayback Machine API is utterly hopeless for saving pages. I didn't find any other web archive with a decent API, so I just made this instead since I thought it wouldn't take me long.

If there is some small copyright violation I'm doing here that I'm unaware of (since I'm assuming content created by the US government falls under public domain), please tell me so that I can take these offline.

Using these to supply the  felt wrong to me, however, since it might be a violation of WP:OR (although I am not entirely sure that it might be OR, since it's just an untouched copy of public domain text) or since this felt a bit COI-y (since it's on a personal webserver, after all.) For this reason, I wanted to ask if it were okay to link to the archived versions (or a Wayback Machine archive of them, which is essentially an archive of the archive, if you're a bit privacy-sensitive) in order to make the warnings more verifiable (since those URLs die quick). I hoped that this can help editors that also want to add references but miss the window of opportunity. Feel free to ask any additional questions that can help you get a better understanding of how it works. Thanks! -- Chlod (say hi!) 10:59, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Awesome! Now can take at least a breath for this. Great job man! Regards, 👦 02:15, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It is a great effort but I am not certain if the service will remain for decades. I still have to archive for JMA. 🐱💬 07:46, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, no promises that this will stay up forever, but that pretty much applies to any website run by a single person. Either way, the source code is available for anyone to use, and anyone can just download a copy of whatever warning all they want or put the files on some archive service online. I'll also be keeping this website up for as long as I can - which would be a very long time unless I die soon. So it's safe to say that this will definitely withstand the test of time (as long as I update the script as well depending on changes on the JTWC's side.) I was planning to archive JMA as well, but I can't seem to find a good page to scrape from, unless I rely on this page, which can break the archiver at any moment given some internal change. The JSON files for each system is also oddly populated despite the system having dissipated already. Unless there's some other source I'm not seeing. Chlod (say hi!) 08:04, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately it does not archive prognostic reasonings from JTWC. 🐱💬 10:28, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I can start archiving those as well. Would you like me to do so? Chlod (say hi!) 10:31, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * For editors, reasonings may be more important than warnings. 🐱💬 10:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Got it. Prognostic reasonings will also be archived in the next archive (11:00 UTC) and onwards. Chlod (say hi!) 10:56, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Can I ask for the STWA's to be archived as well, since they are a valuable source of information for systems that do not reach the JTWC's warning criteria. I would also suggest that you use the NOAA plain text links for the JMA warning bulletins Jason Rees (talk) 12:38, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, sure. But... what does STWA mean and can you point me to where I can get the files (for the STWAs you mentioned and the JMA warnings)? I'm new to the meteorology field (which I only picked up as a hobby), so I'm still a bit behind on terminology. Thanks! Chlod (say hi!) 13:01, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Tropical Storm Noul (2020)
A WikiProject Tropical cyclones hopeful JackGordean wanted to create an article for this storm and just recently, Jack started a draft for it. Is this necessary and notable enough?  SMB9 9thx   my edits  11:41, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Fails WP:GNG, but he's a new user, SMB. You can give him a nice message about notability and then request deletion of draft, but no WP:BITEing. 🐔 Chicdat Bawk to me!  11:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * , GNG? All tropical cyclones are notable as they get enough coverage to pass the GNG. What decides if the TC gets an article is impacts and/or meteorological characteristics. (Basically, an article is created if a summary on the season page would be too large for the article.)  Java Hurricane  04:23, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, lack of notability is not a valid ground for deletion at MfD.  Java Hurricane  04:24, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Nangka Draft
Tropical Storm Nangka is currently moving over Hainan and could worsen historic floods over Indochina later this week. I am going to create a draft for the storm, what do you think!? Robloxsupersuperhappyface (talk) 14:37, 13 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Maybe too soon and unnecessary (per WP:CRYSTAL), you should wait for a few days to see what happens next. Nguyen QuocTrung (talk) 14:56, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Tropical Storm Nangka (Nika) - ITN Nomination
Tropical Storm Nangka has been nominated for the In The News section. {Vote in the nomination here} Is there going to be a main article on the storm or is it only going to be a sub in this article? Elijahandskip (talk) 18:36, 13 October 2020 (UTC)