Talk:2020 US Open (tennis)

Wheelchair Tennis
Although they initially said there would be no wheelchair tennis at the 2020 US Open, I thought that the organisers done a U turn. Could someone please clarify this? (Fran Bosh (talk) 21:48, 23 August 2020 (UTC))
 * After some research, it looks like wheelchair tennis will be happening according to the article I found today. Check out this article which alludes that it will occur after September 9, 2020, https://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/articles/2020-09-03/2020-09-03_photos_mens_action_day_4.html Jurisdicta (talk) 04:14, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Incorrect ranking points for men and women
I edited the misinformation before, but it was added again. First off, changes in points should NOT be added until the tournament is finished for the given player. Second, points are being counted as the best of two years for this year, so simple arithmetic will not suffice in computing the rating afterwards. Please refrain from adding incorrect information Rmehtany (talk) 21:48, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Inclusion of supporting tables
Hello User:PCN02WPS, please refrain from continuing to make these edits and deletions of rankings tables and various entries, which go against the standard structuring of Grand Slam Wiki pages, without providing a discussion in which a consensus actually agreed to said changes. Savvy10 (talk) 21:35, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
 * the consensus was reached at In the news/Candidates. I think we'd both agree that a well-structured, well-ordered article with sourced prose would be preferable to an amalgamation of tables that say the same thing over and over again. The article is currently featured on the main page so I'd appreciate if you'd leave it in its improved state. I'm pinging some of the participants of that discussion here to weigh in if they desire, and, though I do not wish to start an WP:EDITWAR, I'm going to restore it to its previous state due to its current listing at Template:ITN. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 04:05, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree. The old format was too cluttered and disorganized if I just wanted an overview of what happened in women's singles. It also went against Summary style, when we already have separate pages for various subtopics but we duplicated it in this main page esp. with bloated tables.—Bagumba (talk) 04:38, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Another indication of the previous discorganization is this re-addition of a hatnote at the top of the page to the men's and women's pages. This goes against the guideline WP:RELATED: They are not intended to link to topics that are simply related to each other, or to a specific aspect of a general topic 's edit description said: We have many complaints that the main reason readers come to these pages is to find the womens and mens singles draws, and scrolling around to find it was a chore. It was decided at tennis project to put it prominently right at the top It seems that the hatnotes are a band-aid for the subpar page organization where a reader could not even figure out from the TOC where to go i.e. there were too many "Men's Singles" sections that said nothing about the actual matches.—Bagumba (talk) 04:38, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * That "standard structuring" might not be an indication of quality. There is only 1 FA event (1877 Wimbledon Championship) and 1 GA (2009 Sony Ericsson Open, though not a Grand Slam), neither of which follow that format.—Bagumba (talk) 05:11, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't mind at all the structure changes. It is much easier to find things. Removed items (seeds and withdrawals, wild cards) might be in a poor place on the draw article. I'm not sure anything is more important than the actual draw so it should be first and foremost... maybe after the seeding. If every article was like this we probably wouldn't need singles info on the very top. However if this is the only article that gets changed to this style, and all the others have the further info at the top, then this should also have that item. Readers like to see the same style of navigation. It'll take years to do them all but if we can change the 2019 and 2020 articles to this style, all would be good. Tennis Project does not have these article etched in stone as to layout. We we did get was plenty of readers asking us to have both the mens and womens singles draw linked near the top prominently, and I believe the vast majority of readers want just that. They don't want to scroll and search. I did re-add the tables for points and prize money because i think they are vital and easier to read than just the prose version. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:47, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * We we did get was plenty of readers asking us to have both the mens and womens singles draw linked near the top prominently ...: I get that it was important, because I couldn't navigate and find it before PCN02WPS's changes to the 2020 article. However, that's not the community norm per the WP:RELATED guideline. And I get regulars resistant to change, but it seems like an easy alternative is to pay attention to the word completion options in the search box, and bypassing the general US Open article and going to the respective men's and women's pages directly.  For example, a GA like the 2008 Summer Olympics doesn't have hatnotes to all the event specific articles. Tennis does not seem to be a unique case that requires it going forward.—Bagumba (talk) 06:34, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * What I'm saying is that I think this new format takes care of the issues of finding those two singles draws. I have no problem with the removal of the hatnote EXCEPT that if the other 2020 (and probably at least 2019) majors aren't done in this same format then we'd have an oddball with this article. If they don't also change then I would keep the info at the top for continuity, even in this article. That's my only beef and I always side with our thousands of readers if guidelines happen to get in the way. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:13, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I understand. However, I think it's better to be inconsistently good than consistently bad. There is no deadline. The hope is that good examples get replicated.—Bagumba (talk) 08:45, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * To be fair, an arbitrary selection of particular pages that have been deemed "good quality" is not the most accurate indicator of the usefulness or completeness of this article as it was. Having the prose at the top is fine, but the same data should at least remain so it can be referenced in comparison to other Grand Slam pages. If the list of women's withdrawals needs to be collapsed and expanded to take up less space for this particular edition, which was by all accounts unusual, then that's fine. But it seems in bad faith that many of the editors who have decided to remove this data do not typically edit tennis pages, only to begin sweeping changes just three days ago. Savvy10 (talk) 06:32, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The FA/GA comparison was only to question whether the "standard structuring" was based on quality standards or rote repetition of an arbitrary format. Above, wrote that "Tennis Project does not have these article etched in stone as to layout". Collapsing tables should generally not be done. When it is, it's often an indication that the information isn't that important to begin with. A bold edit should not be assumed to be in bad faith, and there is no ownership of articles here. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 08:45, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I have tried one final time to re-insert the tables in such a way that the prose remains at the top and the readers' wishes to find information about the singles draws are still fulfilled. If the consensus still insists on the destructive deletion of useful and relevant information without adequate or proper replacement elsewhere, so be it. Savvy10 (talk) 06:50, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I have a question then. The charts you re-inserted... they were moved to the mens singles page when did the update. You need to explain why it's better to include mens seeds and mens withdrawals and mens protected rankings here rather than on the mens singles article. Isn't it a better fit there? To keep all the specific mens stuff on the mens singles article? It does look like he did not do the same transfer for doubles though, and that would be a problem. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:34, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

I did the same formatting to the current 2020 French Open article. I hope I got it the same. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:58, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping, and just to say that I fully support the changes PCN02WPS made to this article, which allowed us to support its inclusion on the main page. The previous version did not conform to the standards required by Wikipedia's WP:Manual of style, and the vast number of tables with very little accompanying prose were a violation of WP:NOTREPOSITORY. Every year, these grand slam articles get nominated for ITN featuring and they're always opposed on the grounds of quality, without anyone stepping up to actually resolve the issues. So massive kudos to PCN02WPS for doing that. And we should not take the many previous years-worth of poor quality articles as a guide for how this one should be. Actually it should be the reverse. Thanks  &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 08:51, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

List of players missing
Where is the player statistics in Grand Slam pages that no longer appears in XXXX YYYY Open/Championships in every annual competition? What is the problem now?

As the edits that would be going to accept into the singles pages with nothing to treat with the new idea.

The problem is the names of players are no longer listed, and so if does appear in XXXX YYYY Men/Women's Singles/Doubles or Mixed Doubles tournament, and here is the shown text and example from Men's Singles article:

• ''
 * Players
 * Seeds

• 🇦🇹 Dominic Thiem (Champion)

• 🇷🇺 Daniil Medvedev (Semifinals)

• Stefanos Tsitsipas (Third round)

• 🇩🇪 Alexander Zverev (Final)

• 🇮🇹 Matteo Berrettini (Fourth round)

• 🇧🇪 David Goffin (Fourth round)

• 🇪🇸 Roberto Bautista Agut (Third round)

• 🇦🇷 Diego Schwartzman (First round)

• 🇷🇺 Andrey Rublev (Quarterfinals)

• 🇷🇺 Karen Khachanov (Third round)

• 🇨🇦 Denis Shapovalov (Quarterfinals)

• Cristian Garín (Second round)

• 🇧🇬 Grigor Dimitrov (Second round)

• 🇨🇦 Félix Auger-Aliassime (Fourth round)

• 🇺🇸 John Isner (First round)

• 🇫🇷 Benoît Paire (Withdrew due to positive COVID-19 test)

• 🇷🇸 Dušan Lajović (First round)

• 🇺🇸 Taylor Fritz (Third round)

• 🇪🇸 Pablo Carreño Busta (Semifinals)

• 🇦🇺 Alex de Minaur (Quarterfinals)

• Nikoloz Basilashvili (First round)

• 🇬🇧 Dan Evans (Second round)

• 🇵🇱 Hubert Hurkacz (Second round)

• 🇨🇦 Milos Raonic (Second round)

• 🇷🇸 Filip Krajinović (Third round)

• Borna Ćorić (Quarterfinals)

• 🇩🇪 Jan-Lennard Struff (Third round)

• 🇦🇷 Guido Pella (First round)

• 🇳🇴 Casper Ruud (Third round)

• Marin Čilić (Third round)

• 🇫🇷 Adrian Mannarino (Third round)

• 🇺🇸 Ulises Blanch
 * Wild cards

• 🇺🇸 Maxime Cressy

• 🇺🇸 Sebastian Korda

• 🇺🇸 Mitchell Krueger

• 🇺🇸 Thai-Son Kwiatkowski

• 🇺🇸 Michael Mmoh

• 🇺🇸 Brandon Nakashima

• 🇺🇸 J. J. Wolf


 * Protected ranking
 * 🇷🇺 Andrey Kuznetsov
 * 🇺🇸 Mackenzie McDonald
 * 🇺🇸 Jack Sock


 * Alternates
 * 🇺🇸 Ernesto Escobedo
 * 🇪🇸 Marcel Granollers (Withdrew due to focus on doubles)

• Roger Federer → replaced by 🇺🇸 Jack Sock
 * Withdrawals

• 🇮🇹 Fabio Fognini → replaced by 🇮🇹 Paolo Lorenzi

• 🇫🇷 Pierre-Hugues Herbert → replaced by 🇺🇸 Bradley Klahn

•  Nicolás Jarry → replaced by 🇮🇳 Sumit Nagal

• 🇦🇺 Nick Kyrgios → replaced by  Kevin Anderson

•  Lu Yen-hsun → replaced by 🇮🇹 Federico Gaio

• 🇫🇷 Gaël Monfils → replaced by  Jason Jung

• 🇪🇸 Rafael Nadal → replaced by 🇦🇺 Marc Polmans

• 🇯🇵 Kei Nishikori → replaced by 🇷🇺 Andrey Kuznetsov

• 🇫🇷 Benoît Paire → replaced by 🇺🇸 Ernesto Escobedo

• 🇦🇺 Alexei Popyrin → replaced by 🇬🇧 Andy Murray

• 🇫🇷 Lucas Pouille → replaced by 🇩🇪 Peter Gojowczyk

• 🇫🇷 Jo-Wilfried Tsonga → replaced by  Ivo Karlović

• 🇪🇸 Fernando Verdasco → replaced by 🇪🇬 Mohamed Safwat

•  Stan Wawrinka → replaced by 🇸🇰 Jozef Kovalík
 * Notes


 * References

Hence, here is the example from the Women's Singles article:

• 🇨🇿 Karolína Plíšková (Second round)
 * Players
 * Seeds

• 🇺🇸 Sofia Kenin (Fourth round)

• 🇺🇸 Serena Williams (Semifinals)

• 🇯🇵 Naomi Osaka (Champion)

• 🇧🇾 Aryna Sabalenka (Second round)

• 🇨🇿 Petra Kvitová (Fourth round)

• 🇺🇸 Madison Keys (Third round, retired)

• Petra Martić (Fourth round)

• 🇬🇧 Johanna Konta (Second round)

• 🇪🇸 Garbiñe Muguruza (Second round)

• 🇰🇿 Elena Rybakina (Second round)

• 🇨🇿 Markéta Vondroušová (Second round)

• 🇺🇸 Alison Riske (Second round)

• 🇪🇪 Anett Kontaveit (Fourth round)

•  Maria Sakkari (Fourth round)

• 🇧🇪 Elise Mertens (Quarterfinals)

• 🇩🇪 Angelique Kerber (Fourth round)

•  Donna Vekić (Third round)

• 🇺🇦 Dayana Yastremska (Second round)

• 🇨🇿 Karolína Muchová (Fourth round)

• 🇷🇺 Ekaterina Alexandrova (Second round)

• 🇺🇸 Amanda Anisimova (Third round)

• 🇰🇿 Yulia Putintseva (Quarterfinals)

• 🇵🇱 Magda Linette (Third round)

• 🇨🇳 Zhang Shuai (First round)

• 🇺🇸 Sloane Stephens (Third round)

• 🇹🇳 Ons Jabeur (Third round)

• 🇺🇸 Jennifer Brady (Semifinals)

• 🇷🇺 Veronika Kudermetova (First round)

• 🇫🇷 Kristina Mladenovic (Second round)

•  Anastasija Sevastova (Second round)

• 🇸🇪 Rebecca Peterson (First round)

• 🇺🇸 Hailey Baptiste
 * Wild cards

• 🇺🇸 Catherine Bellis

• 🇧🇪 Kim Clijsters

• 🇺🇸 Claire Liu

• 🇺🇸 Allie Kiick

• 🇺🇸 Robin Montgomery

• 🇺🇸 Katrina Scott

• 🇺🇸 Sachia Vickery

• 🇺🇦 Kateryna Bondarenko
 * Protected ranking

• 🇷🇺 Irina Khromacheva

• 🇧🇾 Vera Lapko

• 🇧🇬 Tsvetana Pironkova

• 🇷🇺 Vera Zvonareva


 * Alternates
 * 🇺🇸 Asia Muhammad
 * 🇦🇺 Arina Rodionova

• 🇨🇦 Bianca Andreescu → replaced by 🇧🇾 Olga Govortsova
 * Withdrawals

• 🇦🇺 Ashleigh Barty → replaced by 🇧🇾 Aliaksandra Sasnovich

• Belinda Bencic → replaced by 🇦🇹 Barbara Haas

•  Kiki Bertens → replaced by 🇺🇸 Francesca Di Lorenzo

• 🇷🇴 Ana Bogdan → replaced by 🇵🇱 Katarzyna Kawa

• 🇷🇺 Vitalia Diatchenko → replaced by 🇺🇸 Asia Muhammad

• 🇫🇷 Fiona Ferro → replaced by 🇺🇸 Caroline Dolehide

• 🇩🇪 Julia Görges → replaced by 🇧🇪 Ysaline Bonaventure

• 🇷🇴 Simona Halep → replaced by 🇷🇺 Irina Khromacheva

•  Polona Hercog → replaced by 🇧🇪 Yanina Wickmayer

•  Hsieh Su-wei → replaced by 🇺🇸 Usue Maitane Arconada

• 🇨🇿 Barbora Krejčíková → replaced by 🇧🇬 Viktoriya Tomova

• 🇷🇺 Svetlana Kuznetsova → replaced by 🇨🇿 Tereza Martincová

•  Jeļena Ostapenko → replaced by 🇺🇸 Whitney Osuigwe

• 🇷🇺 Anastasia Pavlyuchenkova → replaced by 🇧🇾 Vera Lapko

• 🇨🇳 Peng Shuai → replaced by 🇦🇺 Lizette Cabrera

• 🇩🇪 Andrea Petkovic → replaced by 🇺🇦 Marta Kostyuk

• 🇷🇺 Anastasia Potapova → replaced by 🇺🇸 Caty McNally

• 🇦🇺 Samantha Stosur → replaced by 🇦🇺 Astra Sharma

• 🇨🇿 Barbora Strýcová → replaced by 🇺🇸 Ann Li

• 🇪🇸 Carla Suárez Navarro → replaced by 🇯🇵 Kurumi Nara

• 🇺🇦 Elina Svitolina → replaced by 🇷🇺 Natalia Vikhlyantseva

• 🇨🇳 Wang Qiang → replaced by 🇷🇴 Mihaela Buzărnescu

• 🇨🇳 Wang Xiyu → replaced by 🇦🇺 Arina Rodionova

• 🇨🇳 Wang Yafan → replaced by 🇧🇬 Tsvetana Pironkova

• 🇨🇳 Zheng Saisai → replaced by  Kaja Juvan

• 🇨🇳 Zhu Lin → replaced by  Viktorija Golubic

•  Tamara Zidanšek → replaced by 🇺🇦 Anhelina Kalinina
 * Notes


 * References

Is there in need of explanation to add seeds, wild cards, qualifiers, alternates, withdrawals and lucky losers in every singles/doubles article. Any reason? ApprenticeFan  work  14:16, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
 * From what I can see, the seeds are all listed on the individual singles articles. Look at the 2020 US Open – Men's Singles... the seeds are there. Below the draw (as it should be) the other items are there... wild cards, qualifiers, alternates, withdrawals and lucky losers. That's the article they should be in and that's the location they should be in. I really didn't participate in the discussion except for the hatnote on the top of the article (which is no longer needed with this clearer format). Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:19, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Opinion: I think only seeds and qualifiers/lucky losers are necessary since they give out important info. –  333-blue  at 12:13, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Pre-FAC feedback
Looks promising. I can keep an eye on the FAC page. Queries below: Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:52, 3 May 2021 (UTC)


 *  As a result, withdrawals and opt-outs became a theme of the competition.  - why not just, "many players withdrew"? - how is opting out different to withdrawing?
 * As far as I understand, an opt-out occurs before the beginning of the event (or before one's involvement in the event has begun) and a withdrawal occurs after the event has already begun. For example, Federer and Nadal opted out, since they stated before the tournament that they would not participate, while women's doubles No. 1 Babos/Mladenovic withdrew, since they were forced to leave the tournament after their first round match. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 03:05, 3 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The tournament consisted of the men's and women's singles and doubles draws, [as well as] men's and women's wheelchair singles and doubles draws and a wheelchair quad singles and doubles draw. - bracketed bit redundant
 * Removed. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 03:05, 3 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Due to a decision made by the New York state government, draws for qualifying matches, mixed doubles, and junior matches were not held. - why not "The New York state government dispensed with draws for qualifying matches, mixed doubles, and junior matches."?
 * As far as I can tell, those draws were cancelled by the tournament itself due to protocol set in place by the NY government, not directly cancelled by the state of New York; I have updated the wording to reflect that. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 03:05, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Looks in good shape otherwise and would appear to be within striking distance of FA status Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:58, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , thank you for the feedback! Let me know if anything else needs fixing, and if not, I'll set up the FAC nomination tomorrow. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 03:05, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * In the immortal words of Nike, "just do it!" (chuckle) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:36, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

There are some big issues here as far as consensus and structure. Look at 2020 Australian Open and 2020 French Open and 2021 Australian Open. These were the agreed upon structure as far as what's included and placement. The seed tables are to be placed in the individual discipline articles. And nothing is more important than the prose sections followed immediately by who won the events section. You can't believe how many reader complaints we had about the "Events" section being pushed down the page so they had to scroll to find them. The new paragraph that was added had duplication from the Tournament section and should be included in that section or the Covid section if there were changes to normal structure. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:30, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

An image was inadvertently removed but has been re-added. The "Players" section has been re-added but trimmed for duplicate info in prose, and covid-related material has been placed in the covid section. The "Singles players" section is per consensus, and seed chart removal is per consensus. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:09, 13 May 2021 (UTC)