Talk:2021 Jersey dispute

Year in title
There isn't any Jersey dispute (Redirect right now), so should the article be moved to it instead of having it be 2021 Jersey dispute? Elijahandskip (talk) 12:23, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * IMO Jersey Dispute is too general. The island was contested dozens of times in history. Most of which can be described as a dispute. Current redirect helps readers find the ongoing event, which is what most will be looking for a few days. Ecrusized (talk) 13:08, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * At the moment the title follows a pattern established in a previous dispute that seems to lack a formal name, the 1993 Cherbourg incident. I agree that the title will need to change in time as a name comes into widespread use, as happened with the Cod Wars, Lobster War, Turbot War and the English Channel scallop fishing dispute aka 'Great Scallop War'. A name may already be emerging - the Times referred to it as 'the war of the whelks' in an article by a French correspondent on 9 May and again on 12 May, the Jersey Evening Post used that name in three places on 15 May (The Weekend Essay Aftermath of the War of the Whelks [page 1], events dubbed by some as the War of the Whelks [page 12-13], and in a double page spread titled "Restoring relations after the 'War of the Whelks'" [page 18-19]). Bailiwick Express called it that on 18 May. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 09:36, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * A common name is emerging from BBC News, Channel Four news, The Guardian, Independent, The Irish Times, LBC News, The Scotsman, Sky News, The Telegraph - they all call it the Jersey fishing row. -- DeFacto (talk). 12:33, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

French Patrol Boats Drafts
A notice to editors that Draft:Athos (A712) & Draft:Le Themis have been started. Feel free to help improve them. Elijahandskip (talk) 14:17, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Noting that Athos (A712) was created by a person and the draft above is being speedy deleted. (Article was created after draft existed). Elijahandskip (talk) 17:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Infobox
I think the use of an the 'Infobox military conflict' infobox is more trouble than it is worth, and could be inflammatory. This is clearly not a military conflict. The presence of military vessels was for peacekeeping only. Can we scrap the box? Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 17:34, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree, this appears to be a civil conflict between the government of Jersey and civilian fishing vessels which could be from anywhere. Anvib (talk) 17:40, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I second that. GameEnd (talk) 17:46, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I disagree. This is not at all civil conflict IMO. It may have started as one but now the military vessels of Britain and France are involved, while the Government of France is threatening to cut off the islands electricity. Which is not a civil institution. Cod Wars which is a similar dispute also uses infobox military conflict. Ecrusized (talk) 18:15, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * To gain a larger consensus about the dispute, I have created a notice at WP:NPOVN inviting feedback from uninvolved editors. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks . there is zero chance of military intervention between the UK and its nearest neighbour and close ally. The presence of patrol vessels in a peacekeeping role is at the most political posturing at a time of elections in the UK. The Independent has reported that the two Royal Navy vessels have been stood down. MarineTraffic shows HMS Tamar leaving the area. As a civil dispute infobox exists, this should be used instead. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 20:42, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I still don't think it was a "civil" dispute. Sure it wasn't bloody and in sense civil, but it wasn't a dispute involving civilian sides. It being over doesn't change this. Ecrusized (talk) 20:48, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The term "military conflict" is only used in the code of the infobox, which the readers don't see anyway. However the civilian infobox calls the sides civilians, while they are not. Ecrusized (talk) 20:50, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Surely you would define the protagonists - the French fishermen - as civilians? And aren't the Jersey politicians and civil servants who granted, or withheld, the fishing licences also civilians, under any definition used here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Curb Safe Charmer (talk • contribs) 11:23, 7 May 2021 (UTC)


 * We really need a template teapot tempest. Guy (help! - typo?) 23:04, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Jersey is not part of the UK
I saw that you'd tagged "While Jersey is not part of the UK" with the 'clarify' tag. What did you have in mind? Jersey's relationship with the UK is described in both the Jersey article and Politics of Jersey. Would a wikilink from the statement to the latter suffice? Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 06:21, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
 * It is not so clear: Jersey is impacted by Brexit and British ministers make comments on the topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.136.215.10 (talk • contribs) 11:48, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Background to Jersey-France relations
Hello. I saw that you removed the section entitled 'Normal relations between Jersey and the neighbouring French coastal towns' which I had been writing, with the edit summary 'unrelated to the dispute'. This background is relevant to the dispute because it sets the scene for the dispute and introduces subjects such as the Maison de Normandie (Normandy's representative office in Jersey) which was shut as one of France's reactions to the dispute. It establishes the proximity of the ports, which enables the reader to understand why Jersey's waters are important to the French. It illustrates the trade that takes place between the island and France, and the convivial relationship. The section is key to broadening the subject from just being about the goings on of 5 and 6 May. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 19:59, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , you boldly added the content and per WP:BRD I deleted it, with a reason, pending consensus. You then reinstated your bold addition stating per BRD! That's not how it works. Please restore the status quo verion and wait to see if you get a consensus to add all that. Personally, I cannot see the relevance. -- DeFacto (talk). 06:51, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * My additions to the article and moving existing content into a section was not a bold edit, it was normal editing. I believe it was your edit that was boldly done: your action was not a revert as it did not restore the article back to the state it was at before the edits that you were concerned about were made. Instead, what you did was content removal on the basis of irrelevant information. Per WP:IRRELEVANT, there is clearly some relevance of the content, and if you felt it was not sufficiently relevant then it should be discussed on the talk page. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 07:52, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , it was you who originally changed the article, all I did was revert your change. You now need to get consensus to restore your additions - that's how WP:BRD and Wiki collegiality works. -- DeFacto (talk). 08:15, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * if it was a revert, it would show as such in the edit history. You'd be able to show the version that you reverted the article to. No, what you did was boldly delete content. That is different. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 08:20, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , see Reverting. -- DeFacto (talk). 08:31, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Notice about a new WikiProject Proposal
Hey editors of the 2021 Jersey dispute article. I recently proposed an idea for a WikiProject for 2021. This dispute started in 2021, and the proposed WikiProject is dedicated to 2021 articles, so this article would be an important article for the WikiProject, since it was nominated for ITN. So I thought I would drop by and let you know about the proposal. Feel free to drop your opinions here: WikiProject Council/Proposals/2021. Elijahandskip (talk) 20:08, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

"Jersey Wiki" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Jersey Wiki. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 21 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed,Rosguill talk 18:22, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Brexit sidebar
I added a link to this dispute to the Brexit sidebar template, do you think it'd be helpful to add the sidebar to this article, or is it unnecessary? Your call! Jr8825 •  Talk  07:56, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * thanks. The dispute is a result of Brexit, and the article discusses topics like the withdrawal agreement and the TCA so it seems appropriate, so I've gone ahead and added it. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 16:44, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Status as of 2022
Is the dispute ongoing? If it is, then the article should be changed to 2021–2022 Jersey dispute? --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 21:23, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
 * While more licences for French boats have been granted, the French are not yet satisfied and talks are ongoing. However I suggest we wait and see what happens in early 2022. If the dispute simmers quietly, it could remain the 2021 dispute, but if there is another major flare-up such as a blockade then yes, it should be renamed. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 13:55, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Curb Safe Charmer, one year later, I found this article that states that an agreement was reached in April of last year. UK and France reach truce over fishing licence dispute. Maybe add 2022 to the title. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 22:12, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * While things are certainly more amicable, this is not yet the end of the story, as this recent news piece shows. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 22:24, 3 January 2023 (UTC)