Talk:2021 Kentucky Derby

Jeff Ruby Steaks
Calling the Jeff Ruby Steaks a "major prep" is an extreme stretch. Sure Churchill Downs decided to bump up the points (solely because they also own Turfway and want to screw around with Keeneland by having the Jeff Ruby worth more than the Lexington). But no major horses showed up for the race and never will because Turfway has an all weather track, which is a lousy way to prep for a race on the dirt. Not to mention the purse is dwarfed by the real major preps. Oh well, such is the idiocy of Churchill Downs. Jlvsclrk (talk) 21:50, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * [Jlvsclrk], do you have any sources that support your argument? If you have sources, the article can be edited, but need to be supported by reputable sources. Jurisdicta (talk) 04:09, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Just grumbling from race fans, though the ownership of Turfway by CDI (Churchill Downs Inc) is a fact and the relatively small purse of the Jeff Ruby is another fact, as is the fact that its only a Grade III that is run on an all-weather surface... Alas, the horse racing press doesn't tend to call out things like this so sources are hard to come by. Jlvsclrk (talk) 04:40, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Investigation into Medina Spirit
I noted the section on the investigation into Medina Spirit and the presence of the steroid Betamethasone in the post race test.

Given that the racing commission are investigating this matter and Bob Baeffert has been stopped from running horses at Churchill Downs until the investigation is concluded, should we look at marking the results of the race as provisional?

I would presume betting winnings won't be paid out on Medina Spirit until they're actually confirmed as the winner, bearing the possibility of disqualification upon the results of the split sample and DNA tests.

Dane &#124; Geld 20:09, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * We're in a grey zone, but we can't get ahead of our sources. Equibase is horse racing's official database, and the official chart is showing the race as won by Medina Spirit. If the second split sample also comes up positive, they will then process the DQ. Based on past experience, we then get months of litigation. Jlvsclrk (talk) 22:03, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Betting winnings were paid on the basis of the finish as decided at the time. If Medina Spirit is disqualified it will make no difference and there will be no payout to the backers of the new winner. Cross Reference (talk) 02:36, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

An established schema for the controversy must be created.
Last week, the New York Times published this article and this article giving the details of the investigation-- including about the process of the split-sample. The samples are expected to return in a matter of weeks, per the first NYT article.

Currently, details about the controversy are scattered between this page and that of Medina Spirit.

Should a dedicated page be made for the controversy?

It may not be too significant in relation to sports doping scandals but, this one has (and will continue to have) many details that would look improperly fit in either this page or Medina Spirit's. The aspect of this matter include: the unprecedented controversy between betters, betting houses, the league, sport, Derby, and ownership in regards to this being a first substantial cheating scandal in this age of newly-legal, mostly-online national sports gambling surge; Buffet's clash with the media, the Derby, and "cancel culture"; history of his horse doping, per the second NYT article; history of the matter at large in a consolidated space; the context of the situation including leading up to the Horseracing Integrity and Safety Act, etc. This matter has many details that don't fit the size or context of either of the above mentioned pages or Buffet's page.

While in the course of writing the above, I've convinced myself of yes. Perhaps a page specifically for horse racing like Doping in baseball, that's not the obscure Equine drug testing page.

But I need more opinions. Mehrpw (talk) 06:28, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

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