Talk:2022 Italian presidential election

Projected composition
Braganza (talk) 09:34, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * It will finally be 1,007, as one PD deputy left his seat to become mayor of Rome, and one Liga senator died, both not being replaced in time for the presidential vote. Source : --Aréat (talk) 17:48, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
 * from December 23, new senator Tilde Minasi (Lega) replaced dead senator Paolo Saviane. About the other, the 2022 Italian by-elections will be held on 16 January 2022, maybe (never say never) there will be in time a new deputy replacing mayor Roberto Gualtieri. --Holapaco77 (talk) 22:05, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Are you sure it isn't too late? Others sources seem pretty confident in saying it will be 1007. Maybe only the parliamentaries sworn in at the time the election is called can vote.--Aréat (talk) 17:51, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I got it: the "missing" senator is Adriano Cario (still not replaced), so 1,007 is correct "now". Proclamation of the new deputy (that will be elected on January 16) will be quick (usually 4-5 days), so I think that it could be even possible to get 1,008 in time.--Holapaco77 (talk) 14:27, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the follow up.--Aréat (talk) 11:56, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * New senator Fabio Porta (PD) replaced Adriano Cario. --Holapaco77 (talk) 14:41, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Isn't there a proper, official source on the college composition? The current table is sort of a mess, as it isn't supported by any of the sources provided, which give slightly different numbers to almost all parties.--Aréat (talk) 02:02, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * There are the official Senate and Chamber political group composition tables. But these cannot be used as "static" sources because the composition reported on those links changes very often given the high number of MPs who change side during the legislature. In a month or so, those sources will have different numbers, and therefore the information reported on the tables here will not be verifiable anymore. OTOH journalistic studies disagree with each other slightly on the final counts, see two Italian political analysis expert websites like Il Post vs OpenPolis. --Yakme (talk) 07:47, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with though I feel we should at least strive to make the table at the very least consistent with itself. At the moment, for example, the number of deputies reported only adds up to 628. GiAbTankred (talk) 10:48, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Candidates or nominees list
I think the "Candidates/Nominees" section could count as WP:OR, and the section should probably be either removed or largely re-structured. Italian presidential elections do not involve explicit candidacies: virtually anyone can be nominated (and elected) President. That is why I changed the word "candidate" to "nominee" in the first place. However the main issue is the following: what is the criterion by which people have been included in that list / table? To me it looks like someone is adding "candidates" to this article just by taking newspaper articles online where someone (a politician, a journalist, or anyone really) said publicly that person X could be eligible for President. I don't think this is enough ground to state that these are "possible candidacies" on this encyclopedia. --Yakme (talk) 15:28, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * As Paolo Cirino Pomicino said on the TG2 News: "for the Quirinal you can't be a candidate: you are chosen for it". Just as the word 'papabili' exists in conclaves, some journalists use the term 'quirinabili'.--Holapaco77 (talk) 15:37, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I know this, but then what is the criterion by which some people are added to this article's list of 'quirinabili'? What are minimum requirements to be added to that list? --Yakme (talk) 15:59, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Opinion polls
There are several opinion polls on "quirinabili", do you think it would be useful to include them?--Holapaco77 (talk) 12:52, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Opinion polls have no sense whatsoever, given that it is not the general public the one voting for the President, but only an assembly of MPs and other politicians. I also think that the candidate/nominees list we have is a large WP:OR section, and would remove it. --Yakme (talk) 07:40, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Potential nominees
Lots of reported nominees are simply baseless speculation whose source are simply sensationalist articles mostly from last year. I reckon the section should be greatly cleaned up. GiAbTankred (talk) 21:43, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Totally agree. I would remove that section completely. It is based on the personal thoughts of journalists or politicians. --Yakme (talk) 22:00, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Totally agree, it's absolutely nonsense now... -- Nick.mon (talk) 22:22, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

If you agree, I'm going to remove the section. -- Nick.mon (talk) 17:16, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Fine for me. Yakme (talk) 17:22, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Carlo Nordio
The centre right has proposed Carlo Nordio among three candidates for the presidency. According to AGI, however, he has refused the candidacy yesterday. This was after Meloni's proposal, before the rest of the centre right agreed on it. How should we treat this? Nordio is on the Declined section. --2001:B07:6469:3006:2833:F11F:CA16:5B66 (talk) 15:53, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Proposed candidates
Hi everybody, to avoid a long list of proposed candidates, I'd suggest to use some parameters. For example, we could include only officially proposed candidates who received a determinate number of votes in at least one round. I mean, Cartabia, Cappato and Manconi are respectable candidates but they never exceeded 10 votes (out of 1,009). What do you think? -- Nick.mon (talk) 14:16, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * A proposed candidate by definition is "proposed" by a party. We should include candidates proposed officially by parties regardless of how many votes they won (even if they win zero votes). --Yakme (talk) 14:19, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * So we should include Berlusconi too. Moreover, among the three proposed candidates of the centre-right (who lasted two hours, more or less), Nordio had already rejected his candidacy, while Moratti and Pera didn't recieved any vote. They are only "formal" candidacies, to be honest. -- Nick.mon (talk) 14:28, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Berlusconi renounced before the first ballot. Since there is no way to establish which candidates are "serious" or not (and it cannot be established by counting the votes that they will get – Cartabia is a serious candidate of Azione, they are constantly voting for her, it should not be excluded just because Azione has very few MPs), I would say remove also that section if you wish. --Yakme (talk) 15:38, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Can't the tables simply be kept, but hidden in an autocollapsed way? --Aréat (talk) 15:56, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It can be done by changing the table class to "wikitable collapsible collapsed". Vacant0 (talk) 16:02, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * you're right about Cartabia, but seriously, the three centre-right candidacies de facto do not exsist. The centre-right proposed these three names but they did not support them in any ballot. On the following day, FdI votes its own candidate, so should we include them or not? -- Nick.mon (talk) 17:02, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I see your point, but then what is the objective criterion by which we add candidates to the "proposed" list? I am completely opposed to arbitrary criteria such as "if the proposed candidate gained less than X votes then he/she is excluded from the list". --Yakme (talk) 17:46, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you’re right, this is definitely arbitrary. We should list all of them, at least those who were voted in at least one ballot; regarding Moratti, Pera and Nordio, I don’t know, they were formally proposed yesterday, but they aren’t candidates anymore and any party supported them in a ballot so, I think we should consider them just as Berlusconi. I don’t know, as always Italian politics is so wired… -- Nick.mon (talk) 19:18, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * When the president actually gets elected, should we keep or replace the previous ballot tables with plain text, or maybe make the tables collapsible? Vacant0 (talk) 14:32, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Source!
Hello, What is the source of your edit here? The attached reference doesn't contain any information about "Fourth ballot (27 January)".--Dr-Taher (talk) 14:44, 27 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Article has been edited to provide the source. la Repubblica Dash77 (talk) 14:49, 27 January 2022 (UTC)


 * As the original reference from the Italian Parliament now does show the fourth ballot results (it wasn't available 20 min ago), I've changed the reference back. Dash77 (talk) 15:09, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for you. --Dr-Taher (talk) 15:52, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Withdrawn candidates
The section is not sourced at all with reference to the withdrawal of candidates, for many of whom I can't find any official source. It should be fixed. GiAbTankred (talk) 18:43, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree on this --2001:B07:6469:3006:2833:F11F:CA16:5B66 (talk) 23:15, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Detail in the lede
We need to be consistent as to whether to include interim results for specific candidates in the lede. Someone just deleted my noting that Elisabetta Casellati leads after ballot five, but left in the observation that incumbent Sergio Mattarella led after the earlier ballots. This isn't consistent and it doesn't make sense since Casellati had far more votes (still short of a majority) on the fifth ballot than Mattarella did in the earlier ballots. I'm okay with doing it either way but feel we should be consistent. Dash77 (talk) 15:37, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

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