Talk:2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel/Archive 7

Mohammed deif speech
Should the Mohammed deif speech, or excerpts from it, be included in the background? His October 7 speech does summarise all the ‘justifications’ comprehensively, and I believe it is worth mentioning or including, and in fact it was there for a while The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 06:13, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * This is covered in Israel–Hamas_war, so I would either link to that section of use the excerpt feature. Obviously we should strike a balance between Hamas justifications and the reasons for the attack according to experts. Alaexis¿question? 07:35, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Alaexis I don't think excerpt from there is the right approach, more detail is warranted here. We could expand on it here and then excerpt in the other direction maybe? MWQs (talk) 23:38, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * For what they did, third party sources more credible, But for WHY they did it they say is the best we've got. Some mcommentary is warranted (the sources on the main page include a translation with footnotes explaining some of the things he refers to), but not wp:false balance. I think a rather high level of scepticism is warranted for experts saying "their real motive was…" as an outsider, reading minds is impossible, so that needs a lot more supporting evidence than "an expert says", they need to give a good reason for why stated notive is inaccurate. MWQs (talk) 02:10, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The enxtra sources that are warranted would be to get multiple sources within Hamas / Al-Qassam: Deif's speech is the definitive, but also spikesmask Abu Obeada, Sinwar, Haniyeh. And possibly Osama Hamdan and Basem Naim, fairly minor figures, but they are the most articulate in English and thus we avoid things nnbeing lost in translation. Not warranted to quote all in the quoting all in the article. But maybe using the "quote =" field in references and add as extra refs if they say the same thing. MWQs (talk) 02:10, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @The Great Mule of Eupatoria I thought I already added it? Or was that Israel–Hamas_war ? As well as the motivations we should also include "begin marching now towards Palestine" (times of Israel quote him when they re-released that bit, if we need secondary sources) because a lot of sources paraphrased him in ways that implied they called for global attacks, when they didn't call for anything violent except against Israel iself. MWQs (talk) 23:34, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I believe it was included at one point, notable things to include are what he cites as the reasons for it (such as the blockade, West Bank occupation, complete neglect of international law and international silence), it does seem to be very comprehensive. The part you’re mentioning might have been mistranslated, he was calling the world to rise up against Israel (he also called on “those in the West Bank, the Triangle, the Negev, the Galilee”) overall for the background what he cites as context for the attack is very much comprehensive and because he is not a nobody (he is the leader of Hamas’ armed wing), it definitely seems worth including The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 05:01, 17 June 2024 (UTC)