Talk:2024 Korochansky Ilyushin Il-76 crash

Aircraft involved
Unconfirmed rumour is that the aircraft involved is RA-78830. If subsequently confirmed, I would suggest that this is the best of the eight images available at Commons. Mjroots (talk) 13:35, 24 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I've had a look on Flightradar24 and it appears not to be 78830 as it was last recorded flying around Lebanon at 0700 UTC today. Aydoh8 (talk) 23:10, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

If it had been RA-78830, looks like it would be an Aeroflot might be a civilian aircraft, not "a Russian Air Force" plane as the article lede (and many cites) state. I did read somewhere a claim it was a civilian aircraft not military, but cannot find the source now. I guess we'll find out from reports of the UNSC meeting tomorrow. NB I see RA-78830 is now painted in grey + red/white/blue stripes, so may now be in Russian Air Force service, though it doesn't seem to have air force markings so maybe in some support service. Rwendland (talk) 00:58, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Please check the rest of the Il-76 aircraft of the Russian Air Force--91.210.251.11 (talk) 00:39, 25 January 2024 (UTC)


 * As I originally said, it was an unconfirmed rumour. The Aviation Safety Network have RF-86828 with a question mark, suggesting likely but not confirmed. Once we have a confirmed registration, we can decide which photo is most appropriate to use. Mjroots (talk) 07:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Contentious Topic
Does this article qualify for contentious topic protection? Borgenland (talk) 14:54, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Possibly, but let's not introduce any restrictions as long as editors are editing responsibly. Mjroots (talk) 15:05, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing anything to be concerned about so far. Mjroots (talk) 15:10, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 * 18 of the 65 POWs from the list of the crash victims published by Simonyan have already been exchanged. Sources are all from russian-state-controlled media or from Western press quoting russian-state-controlled media. Whole page is merely spreading the russian narrative, far from presenting facts. NightingaleSings (talk) 15:32, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 * - so find some reliable Ukranian sources and add in their point of view in a neutral manner, thus enabling readers to make their minds up which they believe. Mjroots (talk) 17:02, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Amount of POW's
The intro and infobox both state that the amount of POW's on the plane is reported to be 68, but later in the article it changes to 65 for no apparent reason. Which of the two numbers should be used, since using both can confuse people? Maksiwood 2 (talk) 17:06, 24 January 2024 (UTC)


 * 65 POWs and 3 prison guards and 6 crew. So its 68 passengers and 6 crew. Some editors think all the passengers were POWs. Borgenland (talk) 17:35, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah, thank you for clearing that up. Maksiwood 2 (talk) 17:39, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Preambule & NPOV
I don't know enough English & rules of enwiki as perfectly. But the preamble now reflects only one point of view (WP:NPOV). Please rewrite the preamble as:

 『 Shiro Neko 』  Обг. 19:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 * References


 * The problem is that communication coming from Ukrainian authorities is inconsistent and self-contradictory, and their story has already changed several times since you posted this. Additionally, air crashes don't routinely require any sort of "independent verification" – the investigating country is normally assumed to provide reliable information. — kashmīrī  TALK  00:52, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Please add a section on violations of international humanitarian law
91.210.251.11 (talk) 20:11, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) The Il-76 aircraft is military and belongs to the Armed Forces of Russia, and therefore is a legitimate military target for the Armed Forces of Ukraine and is subject to unconditional destruction.
 * 2) Russia uses the civilian Belgorod International Airport for military purposes. It is strictly forbidden to set up military bases and facilities within densely populated areas.
 * 3) It is forbidden to use the airspace to transport prisoners of war over the territory and near the zone of hostilities.
 * 4) Russia's use of "Human shields" to transport weapons


 * Please see WP:NOR. Mellk (talk) 10:25, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Re. 1. I doubt anyone questions that.
 * Re. 2. The airport is not located "within a densely populated area", and anyway the airport wasn't targeted, so your point is moot.
 * Re. 3. Source? Certainly not in the wikilink you posted.
 * Re. 4. Source that this has ever happened with POWs and that this was the case also here? — kashmīrī  TALK  23:15, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Flight origin & Destination
Can someone check validity of flight origin and destination. It says: from Moscow to Belgorod but the flight direction was opposite; from Belgorod to north (Moscow). The flight direction can be verified from the crash video (geolocated). This also challenges the claims of prisoners onboard since. 130.233.65.150 (talk) 07:23, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Russia blocks the ICRC or neutral countries from entering the process of negotiations and exchanges, there is no independent objective monitoring, and therefore the article consists exclusively of the statements of Russia and Ukraine. Therefore, it is not a mistake to indicate in the article that the only video circulating on the Internet shows how the plane descends from west to east. This is the only thing that is known today --91.210.251.11 (talk) 10:17, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm also wondering what POWs were doing in Iran. Jules TH 16 (talk) 18:37, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The FR24 page shows a different aircraft. See the first thread on the page. — kashmīrī  TALK  20:20, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Huge POV issues
Wikipedia is so bad rn. There weren't any POWs on the plane look up footage of the crash site there are only 2-3 bodies. The plane was geolocated as heading away from Ukraine, not the direction for a prisoner exchange. It was also tracked as being in Iran only hours prior, not something you do for a prisoner exchange. And half the prisoners on the list were traded on the 3rd of january. This page is seeing the most views it will probably ever get right now and you people are pushing a disgusting Russian narrative because "NPOV". Neville Chamberlain was NPOV. Quit being such wimps and tell the truth. 2600:8807:5483:8B00:3C58:C5C7:BA54:E05 (talk) 02:15, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * As has been said above, find RSs that support alternative points of view and add the alternative viewpoint in a neutral manner. We can only use what is reported. Mjroots (talk) 17:14, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Video of higher quality, for replacement
Ucraniano2 (talk) 09:47, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

First an explosion, then a siren
Several eyewitness described hearing loud, thunderous claps at the time of the crash, followed by an air raid alert in the Russian city.

“We heard one or two loud bangs. With an interval of a minute or less. The second bang was much louder. We all ran out to see if someone needs help, but the crash was further away after the village. It was very loud and scary,” one woman told Russian state media RIA Novosti.

“We heard three claps. The claps were loud enough, and we thought that either something had fallen somewhere here, or that missiles had been shot down in the air. Then right after that, the guys in my class began to say that air raid alert went off in Belgorod, the sound of a siren,” said one young man." https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/24/europe/russian-military-plane-crash-belgorod-intl/index.html

It is obvious that the plane did not fall at 0 11:15, but earlier Ucraniano2 (talk) 10:03, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

I suggest making clarifications to the article: After the crash, an air alert was briefly announced in the Belgorod Oblast (11:12 – 11:43 MSK) --Ucraniano2 (talk) 10:14, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 January 2024
Change "stated" to "alleged." The information is not verified yet and it makes the whole page look questionable. SamRuck (talk) 15:40, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: see MOS:ALLEGED. — kashmīrī  TALK  15:49, 27 January 2024 (UTC)