Talk:2024 Persian Gulf floods

Monsoon rains are returning
With the climate change, the Monsoon rains that left Middle East around 7000 years ago, are now returning. The result would be the refilling of all the hot, empty depressions in Iran, southern Afghanistan and greater Balochistan with vast lakes. The dry deserts should once again become vegetated. It is a good news for the region in the long run. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7000:9900:5B67:7892:A60F:BCA1:558B (talk) 14:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

In the news nomination

 * This article needs at least one image or video of the flooded Dubai Airport. 142.117.133.114 (talk) 02:43, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Cloud seeding mentioned in background section
The background section talks about cloud seeding, although it is never expanded upon. It's a very common misconception being spread around that cloud seeing was the primary source of the floods, although this have been shown to be untrue. Should there be more elaboration on cloud seeding here? Berry (talk) 14:30, 18 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi, I added a section in the response section on the role regarding cloud seeding in the media and the consensus that it isn't playing a role. I can appreciate this is at the end of the article and compared to the background. Perhaps we could shift the cloud seeding part of the background to the aforementioned response section? I agree this seems to be a misconception on social media and hoping this article helps to combat that! Droodkin (talk) 15:04, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @BerryForPerpetuity if cloud seeding isn't relevant in this case wouldn't it be best to remove mention of it entirely? Or only mention that experts have ruled it out as a cause? Christhebaker (talk) 23:20, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Cloud-seeding shouldn't be in the background section. It should be in a new section on suggested causes. Mztourist (talk) 07:49, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * "Artificial rainmaking has been criticised for the environmental impact of using harmful seeding agents, but in the UAE, natural salts are used as seeding agents instead of harmful chemicals like silver iodide."
 * This sentence in the background section also reads like something straight from the UAE's website. Feels greenwashy and irrelevant in my opinion. Luna Wagner (talk) 10:17, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Cloud seeding paragraph is a little biased

 * 1) I mentioned that the reason why the University of Reading responded was because it was their cloud seeding services that were being used in the UAE. There is a conflict of interest involved.
 * 2) Furthermore the part about Bloomberg was from a third party source who is a scientist and was quoted by other news agencies as well, so I removed the Bloomberg part and replaced it with the scientists concerned. Bloomberg wrote that cloud seeding was unlikely to play a major role in the floods as well so it seems odd to mention them here.

Shironese (talk) 14:30, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

"Persian Gulf floods"
Hello. From what I know the floods were caused by rain, not by a body of water overflowing. That's what I think of when I hear "Persian Gulf floods". Is this an accurate title? Paul Vaurie (talk) 16:33, 19 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Good point. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad (talk) 20:55, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Causes – Synoptic situation?
Suggestion – can we get an explanation with a synoptic chart of the event? It would be very helpful from a meteorological perspective to give an understandable explanation on the weather pattern involved in this event. As of writing this, the "Causes" section includes a quick description of this event as a 'squeeze', the "Cloud seeding allegations" section, and an explanation on how frequency of such events is expected to increase with warming climate. Inclusion of graphics could get the point across more efficiently than just a citation of a senior forecaster. 49.248.95.190 (talk) 18:56, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I propose merging 2024 Afghanistan-Pakistan floods into 2024 Persian Gulf floods. Two storm systems, with the Afghanistan-Pakistan floods started on the 12th and these starting on the 14th from a MCS. However, the MCS (2nd of the systems) boosted the Afghanistan-Pakistan floods, which is even noted and linked by The Guardian in this article here. “Rain on Wednesday was brought by the remnants of a system of severe thunderstorms that had previously affected the United Arab Emirates and Oman on Monday and Tuesday. More than 200mm fell in northern parts of both countries, causing widespread flash flooding and at least 21 deaths. The storms also passed over south-east Iran later on Tuesday, delivering more than 100mm in places, with flash flooding washing away homes and rail lines…While some of the storms affecting Pakistan have also strayed into northern India.”

Basically, these two systems are linked hand-and-hand together meteorologically and based on RS. Plus, both articles are relatively small in size. Afghanistan-Pakistan is only 6,000 bytes and this article is only 35,000 bytes. Just to note, the Persian Gulf floods article is currently in ITN & the Afghanistan-Pakistan floods article is a new ITN nomination. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 03:18, 21 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I also subsequently proposed a renaming (post-merge) to April 2024 Middle East floods. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 03:20, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * RENAME: After some discussion, I withdraw the proposed renaming above and propose to rename it to the April 2024 Greater Middle East floods. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 16:35, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan are in the Middle East. --Bijanii (talk) 07:29, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * There is a difference between Middle East, and Greater Middle East. Both Afghanistan and Pakistan are included in the Greater Middle East. (Discuss 0nshore's contributions!!!) 12:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * How about April 2024 Greater Middle East floods? The greater middle east includes afghanistan and pakistan as well. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 10:37, 21 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose: Both countries are in South/Central Asia. No need to use the term greater middle east. Its fine as is. Articles can be link within an infobox. Wikibear47 (talk) 12:18, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Afghanistan and Pakistan are controversial. A lot of South Asians do consider Afghanistan and Pakistan to be Middle Eastern, it just been swept up as Islamophobic by Afghanis/Pakistanis who live in western countries. CheetasOnMission (talk) 14:10, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * As stated above, neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan are in the Middle East, so it would be incorrect.--Bijanii (talk) 16:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose per above. Neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan are in the Middle East. --Bijanii (talk) 18:02, 21 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Support - It's the same weather system, and the two regions are geographically and culturally linked.
 * CheetasOnMission (talk) 14:11, 22 April 2024 (UTC)


 * As stated above, neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan are in the Middle East, so it would be incorrect.--Bijanii (talk) 16:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Support all part of the same event/weather system, so sensible to merge into one article with a more broad article title. There is precedent for doing this e.g. 2021 European floods which lasted 2 weeks and affected multiple countries at different times. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:29, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * As stated above, neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan are in the Middle East, so it would be incorrect.--Bijanii (talk) 16:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * — Please see my rename withdrawal and subsequent reproposal for “Greater Middle East floods”. I.e., your reason for opposable has not been corrected after a withdrawn/reproposal. So, you that very fine technicality issue was solved and I hope you now support a merge. Cheers! The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 16:36, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It's controversial. Afghanistan and Pakistan can be included in the Middle East in academic circles, and are colloquially included in the Middle East by many common people including a lot of South Asians. CheetasOnMission (talk) 16:51, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * That's why I suggested with a more broad article title. The merge is sensible, but needs to be accompanied by an appropriate article name change. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:48, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Wikibear47. That School Editor 101 17:52, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment Skeptical about expanding the whole Middle East thing. Would go for a Western Asia flood if you look at their orientation on the map. Borgenland (talk) 18:40, 22 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan are in Western Asia, so that would also be incorrect.--Bijanii (talk) 03:55, 23 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose Not supporting a name for a rarely used geographic term (which is most of the Arab world). The locations, geography, and timings are too different from each other to be merged into one.
 * WILD MOUSE  what?  09:06, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * In addition, the article describes the boundaries as "vaguely defined", increasing my skepticism of the mergers. Adding onto that, there is more countries in the Greater Middle East (according to the map displayed on the article), so even if the Afghanistan and Pakistan are widely accepted as part of the Greater Middle East, you still have to account for the other states in Central Asia and North Africa, further implying that the floods occurred in other places than just the Persian Gulf, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. WILD MOUSE   what?  12:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
 * We should apply the same standards to South Asia then. Frequently countries such as Maldives, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan, Myanmar etc... are overlooked whenever Wikipedia decides to talk about South Asia. Why not do the same with the Greater Middle East? CheetasOnMission (talk) 11:41, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Maybe because they actually happened in most/all of the countries in South Asia, while having a less vaguely defined border and is more commonly known/used. WILD MOUSE   what?  14:54, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose Current term is sufficiently precise. Trying to cover a wider area lacks accuracy and creates confusion.Ekem(talk)


 * Oppose Sorry, but it makes zero sense to merge these two, they are entirely different regions. Alongside this, Afghanistan nor Pakistan are located in the middle east, but rather, central/south Asia. Noorullah (talk) 17:49, 2 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Neutral - Afghanistan and Pakistan border eastern Iran, one of the places where flooding occurred. Renaming this article may be quite difficult, as Afghanistan and Pakistan are located in a region separate from the Persian Gulf. I honestly don't really mind the outcome of this merge proposal.
 * Quake1234 (talk) 09:16, 11 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Afghanistan and Pakistan are not part of the Middle East, and therefore are not geographically connected to the Persian Gulf. Thus a rename would make zero sense. Hansen Sebastian Talk 19:00, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment I'd recommend this discussion be closed as there is more votes opposed and has been going on for a month with no clear consensus to merge or move the articles. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 13:59, 13 May 2024 (UTC)