Talk:20 July plot/Archives/2013/July

"this condition"
In the timeline, the term "this condition" is used. It is ambiguous and I cannot figure out what exactly is intended. 75.173.114.32 (talk) 01:31, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Apparently, the condition that Göring and Himmler must be present also. --Prüm (talk) 09:01, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Alternative possibilities
If Hitler had died...

I have removed the assertion that "most mainstream historians agree" the plot would have failed anyway. One source is not enough to support this.

It would hardly be a certainty that Goering would take power anyway. Himmler would certainly be a contender. And in fact Doenitz was the eventual successor. Creating a power vacuum was a fundamental part of the plot and shouldn't be dismissed like this. Many military commanders, facing the reality of defeat and no longer bound by oaths of loyalty to Hitler, would have been reluctant to accept one of his courtiers as new Fuehrer.--Jack Upland (talk) 10:14, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

I have an issue with the statement, that the failure of the operation was the end of ALL organized resistance in Germany against the NSdAP. While it was the end of organized resistance within the military, local union groups, communist party, and scientists aligned with Britain carried on, albeit in a different environment, and under different paradigms. Klaus Gerlach, 06/05/2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.200.142.240 (talk) 18:33, 5 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Speculations of what would have happened if Hitler was killed is only speculations. Nevertheless exciting speculations. If the assasination had been a success, then evrything hade depended on the Wehrmacht and it's generals. I once red that Field Marshal Erich von Manstein was invited to join the conspiration, but declined with the words "Preussian officers do not make revolutions". However he did absolutly nothing to reveal the conspirators at all. If it had come to a revolt anyhow, one cannot rule out that the Wehrmacht would join the conspiracy. Then the nazi's would have fallen. If NSDAP had retained power, Dönitz wouldn't come in question. He was chosen as Hitlers successor by Hitler himself, only due to the fact that Hitler was not disappointed whith his navy - as he was whith the army and airforce. But that was 9 months later. Göring would most certainly have been pleased with becoming "Führer", but he had hardly any larger Nazi- support (morphinist and egoist that had private interests beside the fate of Germany (which didn't fit into the general Nazi idea), and also had few men to command. So I belive that Himmler through his SS would had become the new "Führer", if Hitler was killed but NSDAP remained in power. Any Wehrmacht general would have been out of the question, OKW's leader Field Marshal Wilhelm Keitel included. Especially since almost all the rebels were high ranked Wehmach officers. But the most interesting question (if the entire cuop had been a successs) would have been how the enemies of Germany would have reacted towards a non-nazi Germany, that wanted peace. Especially if the new German establishment also have had some demands for peace. (But no such demands is belived to have existed) At the Jalta meeting, Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin already had agreed that a German capitulation must be without any conditions. But Churchill had already been more than suspicios of Stalin and his intentions for the future of Europe. FDR cared less about Stalin, and had also Japan to think of. But a peace in Europe would be worth millions of lives. In any case history would have turned out diffrently. Boeing720 (talk) 22:51, 17 July 2013 (UTC)