Talk:27th Infantry Division "Brescia"

Untitled
Needs a tidy up badly but I don't know enough of the history to do it. Probably needs to be worked so that the Tobruk history is consistent across all associated article.

The style seems a bit wrong - point of view not neutral enough?

The Last Heretic (talk) 07:51, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

This division was not motorised
I note that Jim Sweeney believes that autotrasportabile is the same as motorised ((cur) (prev) 09:39, 9 April 2009 Jim Sweeney (talk | contribs) m (5,506 bytes) (moved 17 Infantry Division Pavia to 17 Motorised Division Pavia: correct name) (undo) ). It is not. The Italian army used two different words for two different things for a reason. Autotrasportabile means that a division could be moved by truck by virtue of its organisation, but that it did not have the transport capacity as part of its own structure to do so, i.e. it would depend on transport being made available to it by higher headquarters to be moved by truck (this was the same system as was used by the British army for its infantry divisions in the war. Motorised means that a division was fully equipped with trucks sufficient to transport it. Therefore the correct name of e.g. Pavia in English would be "truck moveable", not "motorised". http://niehorster.orbat.com/019_italy/40_organ/div_autotrans_40as.html I therefore think that all the articles about the North African infantry divisions should be renamed accordingly, in order to avoid giving the wrong impression. 79.74.113.219 (talk) 07:42, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a note in the text that covers this --Jim Sweeney (talk) 08:09, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Name of the division
Per comments in his latest diff, he appears to have a point. Due to a move requiring me to sell off most of my desert related works, I am having to relay on Google Books mostly and no longer have access to some more academic works on the subject. I have only looked at English language sources to establish the common English name. There does not appear to be one.

The following source labels the division "semi-motorized", "partially motorized", or "autotrasportabile"


 * Pettibone, The Organization and Order of Battle of Militaries in World War II
 * Various, Germany and the Second World War, Vol 3
 * Hammond, El Alamein: The Battle that Turned the Tide of the Second World War

The following sources labels the division "infantry"


 * Carver, Dilemmas of the Desert War
 * Latimer, Alamein
 * Jowett, The Italian Army 1940-45 (2): Africa 1940-43 (To note, on page 13 he also calls them motorized divisions, but comments that the term was largely theoretical)
 * Mitcham, Rommel's Desert War: The Life and Death of the Afrika Korps
 * Mitcham, The Rise of the Wehrmacht: The German Armed Forces in World War II
 * Majdalany, The Battle of El Alamein: Fortress in the Sand

The following sources just call the division variants of the "27th Brescia Division"


 * Playfair, The Mediterranean and Middle East Volumes I through III
 * Latimer, Tobruk 1941: Rommel's Opening Move
 * Smith, Tobruk's Easter Battle 1941
 * Boog, Germany and the Second World War: Vol 6

It would seem, without any other evidence, the title of the article is incorrect. The next question would be, what is the most accurate description?EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 05:36, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Removal of sources
G'day, why would WP consider http://www.comandosupremo.com a reliable source, especially when it is down at present? And when compared to references that have been removed from this article, such as Pendulum Of War: Three Battles at El Alamein? The general use of http://www.comandosupremo.com is challengedwhat about that website supports its use on WP? Peacemaker67 (send... over) 05:21, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 21 February 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved to 27th Infantry Division Brescia. Number   5  7  22:09, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

27th Motorised Division Brescia → 27th Brescia Division or 27th Infantry Division Brescia – Per the list of sources above. EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 15:54, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The last one seems the most appropriate since it's the literal translation of the Italian-language name.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 17:10, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Well done, hope that this big mistake (motorised instead of just infantry) will be erased from all italian infantry divisions in the african theatre (Bologna, Brescia and Pavia). The second name is surely the most appropriate. Rickuz85 (talk) 22:36, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Support 27th Infantry Division Brescia. Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 09:23, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Support 27th Infantry Division Brescia. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:29, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.