Talk:3. Liga

Source of this information
If you can read German you will know that this information is good sourced: http://www.dfb.de/news/suche.php?id=9618&lang=D&action=show −Yoda1893 20:15, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Salary
How about something about the salaries of 3rd Liga players & how that compares to the leagues above & below this level? Kenallen (talk) 14:53, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * As usual, if you can find any sources for that, feel free to add it, however, coverage is a bit on the light side regarding that topic. -- Madcynic (talk) 15:23, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Category index
I've temporarily category indexed the article with "Third Bundesliga" so that it doesn't show as the third tier of German football in Category:German football competitions. This can be changed to "3" when the league begins in 2008/9. - Dudesleeper · Talk 12:09, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Wrong Lemma
The press contact at the DFB says the name will be "3. Liga", not "3. Bundesliga". -- 80.139.35.148 11:02, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * From what I hear, the league set-up will be finalized on the next DFB-Bundestag in October. I think that it would be unwise to change the lemma before a decision has been made there. Afterwards, the lemma can/will be changed if necessary. --Madcynic 16:48, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Wrong Logo
The red Bundesliga Logo is only valod for the 1. and 2. league, because it´s from the DFL and the 3. league is from the DFB. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.227.207.128 (talk) 17:23, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Change of name and logo
After some consideration I have changed the name of the league to 3rd Liga and removed the Bundesliga logo from the article. The DFB website among others states pretty clearly the name will be 3rd Liga and so does the German wikipedia article. If anybody thinks I have acted to fast, please let me know, I can always revert the changes and I'm happy to do so, should I've been wrong.EA210269 (talk) 00:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Requested move (2011)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:59, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

3rd Liga → 3. Fußball-Liga – To bring the article in line with the other German league articles, I propose a move to 3. Fußball-Liga, which is incidently also its German article title. Alternatively, 3rd Fußball-Liga would also be an option. What is the general opinion on it before I put in a move request? Calistemon (talk) 00:22, 14 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Support move to 3. Fußball-Liga (3rd Fußball-Liga is a horrible mix of the two languages and not needed). Jared Preston (talk) 01:12, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Support - all other German football leagues appear to follow this naming convention. Why should this one be any different? Sir Sputnik (talk) 02:35, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Support the move to 3. Fußball-Liga to match the names of similar articles. --Carioca (talk) 18:40, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Support the move to 3. Fußball-Liga follows the other German league articles. Raul17 (talk) 05:51, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Support the move to 3. Fußball-Liga makes a lot more sense to me and I don't know why it was ever decided to name as 3rd Liga. Look at 2. Fußball-Bundesliga, that naming example should be followed in this case too in my opinion. --MrEskola (talk) 14:56, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose per WP:UE. "The choice between anglicized and local spellings should follow English-language usage. ... In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage. If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader." Was "3rd Liga" an English translation made up on Wikipedia? How do other English-language sources usually translate it? The proposed title seems awkward because it depends on the non-English abbreviation "3." for "third." The common English-language name for Fußball-Bundesliga seems to be "Bundesliga," and while "Fußball" is a natural disambiguator, it would be better to use an English parenthetical such as Bundesliga (Germany) or possibly Bundesliga (football), depending whether anyone would confuse it with Austrian Football Bundesliga. ESPN and SI seem to use "Bundesliga 2" for 2. Fußball-Bundesliga, though consistency with other 2nd Bundesliga Wikipedia articles suggest 2nd Bundesliga (Germany) or 2nd Bundesliga (football). For this article, I wasn't able to locate any English-language sources which are reliable. (The referenced blog post did not translate it.) The current title is a half-translation. Either keep that, change it to Liga 3 to avoid the German abbreviation, or expand the translation further to 3rd Football League, again per WP:UE, which would result in no loss of accuracy and provide greater understanding for the English-speaking reader. – Pnm (talk) 22:16, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, there is a reliable source in English for this league, its Soccerway. It uses 3. Liga. Putting (Germany) behind the article name wouldn't work as there is a large number of Bundesligas and 2nd Bundesligas in all sorts of sports in the country. Calistemon (talk) 01:33, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I see Soccerway's form is abbreviated but untranslated. For the others, if Germany is necessary, maybe one of these pairs would work better: Bundesliga (German football), 2nd Bundesliga (German football), or Football Bundesliga (Germany), 2nd Football Bundesliga (Germany). – Pnm (talk) 06:14, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Naming convention within Wikiproject Football seems pretty clear, as you can see from Category:National association football premier leagues. Its either a fully English name or the native name, split roughly at 50% from a quick glance. Mixed language article titles are never used, from what I can see. And the premier football competitions in Europe are all native names, like Ligue 1, Serie A, La Liga or Eredivisie, which makes sense as they are commonly known by these names now, even in the English speaking world. To mix English and Germanh in the name, or any other language, seems messy and without precedent. Fußball-Bundesliga served fine as the name for the Bundesliga for 4½ years, I think it will do. Calistemon (talk) 06:36, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Further moves
I have moved the season articles and fixed up the season templates to bring them in line with the new name. I have also requested a speedy rename at Categories for discussion/Speedy for the two associated categories with the league. Can anybody else think of anything that requires renaming in connection with the new article name that I missed? Calistemon (talk) 03:40, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. — ΛΧΣ  21  06:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

3. Fußball-Liga → German 3rd division football or somesuch – per WP:UE. The word 'fußball' isn't English and in any event is redundant; We don't usually employ ordinals when it follows a German convention '3 followed by a full stop'. other sources in English seem to refer to it as German 3rd Liga or German Third division  Ohconfucius  ping / poke 16:53, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Oppose - There are far too many leagues called 'Bundesliga', no evidence this is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. GiantSnowman 12:30, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Fußball-Bundesliga and GiantSnowman's rationale. – PeeJay 13:22, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Who said anything about a Bundesliga? --BDD (talk) 17:26, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The rationale for the name of this article and the Fußball-Bundesliga is the same. Kingjeff (talk) 17:04, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:


 * Comment - We should await the result of the RM of Fußball-Bundesliga before discussing this one. For consistency, this article should not be moved if Fußball-Bundesliga isn't moved, while it should be moved to 3. Liga if the other article is moved to Bundesliga. Mentoz86 (talk) 11:39, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed. – PeeJay 13:22, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Notes.
Now Fußball-Bundesliga has been moved to Bundesliga (men), we have a totally corrupt bunch of article names. Let's hope we can align the first, second and third division nomenclature now the top league has been (sort of) moved. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:14, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move (May 2013)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved to 3. Liga. The commenters did not all answer the same question, but at least there was no groundswell of opposition to 3. Liga. I am reading Ohconfucius's vote as tolerating 3. Liga since he seemed open to anything different from the original title of the article. EdJohnston (talk) 02:52, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

3. Fußball-Liga → Liga (German third division) (or somesuch) – Now that Fußball-Bundesliga has been moved to 'Bundesliga' upon recognition that the title was neither in English nor was the common name, the time is ripe to do the same for the same rationale. I have no fixed ideas on the target, would open it to consensual discussion.  Ohc  ¡digame!¿que pasa? 09:31, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Oppose Move request without an actual suggestion for the new title. Come up with one, then we can talk. Additionally, removing one German word while keeping the other seems strange to me. Madcynic (talk) 10:13, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Support move to 3. Liga as correct format. GiantSnowman 12:17, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose A better alternative would be "3. Liga (football). Kingjeff (talk) 17:05, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose - If you don't like non-English words, the correct title would be Third League (German association football), not your suggestion. But I support a move to 3. Liga, as it is the most used name in English sources, and is consistent with the recent move from Fußball-Bundesliga to Bundesliga. Mentoz86 (talk) 09:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Move to 3. Liga per GiantSnowman. – PeeJay 23:16, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:


 * Comment - opening a second RM while the first one was still active, is not necessary. Posting a comment in the first RM with the result of the Bundesliga-RM would suffice. Mentoz86 (talk) 09:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Placings
In my view, the old table put way to much focus to seasons not in the third liga (bolding, colors). Maybe an option would be to either bold the other way around, or just remove the placings from 1st and 2. bundesliga seasons. So displaying only the division, not the final placing. -Koppapa (talk) 13:31, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Displaying only the divisions, not the placings sounds fine to me. Similar to List of clubs in the 2. Bundesliga. Calistemon (talk) 13:53, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

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