Talk:30 Seconds to Mars (album)/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: MusikAnimal (talk · contribs) 00:42, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

5+ months is a long wait! I'll be reviewing this good article nomination. The size of this article is moderately large (for me, as a reviewer), so please do allow some time. Hopefully I'll some feedback for you fairly soon, though. &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 00:42, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria


 * 1) Is it reasonably well written?
 * A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
 * B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
 * 1) Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
 * A. Has an appropriate reference section:
 * B. Citations to reliable sources:
 * C. No original research:
 * 1) Is it broad in its coverage?
 * A. Major aspects:
 * B. Focused:
 * 1) Is it neutral?
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
 * B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * 1) Is it stable?
 * No edit wars, etc:
 * 1) Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
 * A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
 * B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass or Fail:
 * Pass or Fail:

Concerns

 * Lead
 * ... through Immortal and Virgin I'd tag on the word "records" at the end.
 * Fixed.


 * Background and recording
 * First sentence, I'd reword this to "By 1998, Thirty Seconds to Mars was performing gigs at...".
 * Done.
 * Who is Leto? Let's introduce him with "Their eponymous album ... with frontman Jared Leto writing ..." or whoever Leto actually is.
 * Clarified.
 * The photo of rural Wyoming is beautiful, but I'm not sure if it's fitting for this article. Is this the exact location where the recording took place? If not, I'd say let's leave the photo out.
 * It is not the exact location, sources talk about the "isolation of rural Wyoming" and I thought that it could represent that. What should I do?
 * Personally, I don't consider it that relevant. How is this significant to my understanding as a reader? To me, using a generic image of what a studio looks like would have the same effect. And what if the area where they recorded the album does not look like that at all? What if by "rural" it was in the middle of an unforested area, away from water and mountains? I see that we may lack imagery in this article, but don't feel like you need one in order for it to be good. &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 17:04, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I've removed the photo of rural Wyoming and added two images of the Leto brothers. Please check if they're ok.
 * I still don't find them that relevant (to the album, that is), especially the Leto photo, where he is captioned to be the photographer but is pictured playing drums. This is not a huge deal, though, and may more fall under FA criteria anyway. Let's just leave them as is. &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 22:19, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I've removed blatant copyright violations from this paragraph and other places, that seemed to be taken, much of it word for word, from the MuchMusic source. I am not accusing you of adding it, though I could run a tool verify who did. Either way this is a very serious issue that we should not take lightly. I also don't think the MuchMusic source is a good one to begin with. The review seemed to be heavily opinionated. Another note, the pre-existing sentence Thirty Seconds to Mars contacted Ezrin because ... was attributed to the LaGambia source but it is found word for word in the MuchMusic source. This makes me question the use of other sources.
 * I've reworded some of the removed content, please check if everything is fine.


 * Composition
 * The non-free audio sample needs to be reduced to ~60kbps per WP:SAMPLE.
 * I'm working on it.
 * Reduced.
 * The track "Fallen" faces the need to escape from the inner world that every person has created for itself the latter part of this sentence (italicized) doesn't appear to be in the source, but I could be missing something. The wording sounds like original research, as in an opinionated interpretation of the song.
 * It is actually referenced by LaGambina.
 * The lyrics of "Oblivion" ... Leto described this paradox as a rather common but unfortunate occurrence The "shoutweb" source says the lyrics are to a song called "The Reckoning". Is that the same song?
 * "The Reckoning" is a former name of "Oblivion".
 * Maybe we should clarify, then. The lyrics of "Oblivion", originally entitled "The Reckoning", ... &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 17:04, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Fixed.
 * Its themes refers to many aspects of life as well as military strategy. Military strategy? Where do you gather that?
 * I've removed this sentence.
 * ... artists such as Pink Floyd, The Cure, Björk, Rush, The Who, and Depeche Mode Not all these are in the source. I don't see The Cure, Björk, Rush, or Depeche Mode. Sorry for being picky, verifiability is important!
 * The Shoutweb.com source was missing. I've cited it.
 * The album's compact disc ... footage edited by Ari Sandel This is not sourced. If no third-party sources can be found to verify this, I think the primary source will be alright. You can cite multimedia with cite av media.
 * Fixed.


 * Charts and certifications
 * The charts and certifications look good and verifiable. Were you aware of the album chart template? This is usually preferred, as it will automatically link to the primary source (Billboard.com for billboard, officialcharts.com for OCC, etc) and will ensure the links to sources are up-to-date. That's a lot to ask for you to change, so I am volunteering to do it myself. This will not get in the way of GA promotion, to be clear.
 * I've used the album chart where it can be applied.

While there are (were) some very serious issues with this article, I am not going to fail the nomination just yet. I've posted my initial findings, and am interested to hear what you have to say about them. I will continue to further examine the sources and post more feedback later. &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 02:14, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I have now completed the review. I do think this article can meet the GA criteria within a reasonable amount of time, so I'm putting it on hold. Let me know if you need any help! &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 03:19, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * , please look at my responses to your points and let me know if you have answers to my questions or any further comments. I have some concerns about the AllMusic rating in the album ratings template; its rating does not represent its text review, as AllMusic itself stated in this discussion. While we can still use its review for the critical reception section, it doesn't seem that its rating meets WP:ALBUM/SOURCES. Do you have any suggestion?--Earthh (talk) 00:33, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Interesting about the Allmusic issue... Aside from WP:ALBUM/SOURCES, I would still omit the Allmusic rating since it's unclear if it is accurate or not. You may want to leave an inline comment in the wikitext, linking to the forum post you found. Good catch! &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 17:04, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I've removed the AllMusic rating and added an inline comment linking to that discussion.--Earthh (talk) 21:41, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I've completed another round of the review. Please see my replies above. &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 17:30, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

There were some serious fallacies, but I think we've ended up with a pretty good article. Sorry for being so picky. With all issues addressed, I am passing this nomination. Congratulations &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 22:19, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you :) --Earthh (talk) 22:56, 10 November 2014 (UTC)