Talk:4Kids Entertainment/Archive 2

Neutal check Nomination
I still feel that the critisim section is not 100% neutral and that more could be done (Ke5crz 05:00, 26 October 2006 (UTC))

I think it's mostly fine the way it is.--69.141.190.230 21:56, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Who the *bleep* cares if it's biased!?We ALL hate 4Kids, c'mon, someone prove me wrong.Centurion Ry 11:20, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't hate 4Kids, and I think it's shameful that anime fans make such a big deal out of what they do. They don't want to anger these people on purpose! Nintendo Maximus 05:56, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I wanted to ask a question.. Do you know why 4kids remove refrences to Japanese culture.

Ex: Removing Japanese text even though its in English sometimes, changing a character uses a "Curry Deck" into a Pot Roast deck. Note American children / teens know where Japan is, but accourding to the the master Al kahn he thinks American children don't know how to read.

I know 4kids is trying to localize the anime (cartoon know) but does it seem anti-Japanese removing text, changing location, changing storylines.

Do you know why?

My guesses are, either he's actually satan, a xenophobe, some guy who think's he's better than you, an idiot or, finally, and most plausibly, he thinks we're all to stupid.(the godammed bastard)Centurion Ry 09:35, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, 4Kids removes references to things that most American children wouldn't be familiar with, such as changing the rice balls into cookies. Its not out of xenophobia, its just a matter of creating a product that the target audience can better embrace.  Same thing goes with removing kanji symbols, kids can't recognize them for being Japanese text, let alone read them.  I don't know why the english letters were removed, but my guess is that if the artistic edits were done by the Japanese artists, then they would have removed all Japanese and English letters in order to send them out to the entire Western market, not just America.  That way, anime titles such as One Piece and Sonic X would be better edited for non-english speaking markets, such as Mexico, Europe, and China.


 * If 4kids really was xenophobic, then they would never give the japanese companies money or make japanese anime popular in the first place. If you want to see an actual xenophobic version of One Piece, look up the Korean version.  In Korea, anything Japanese is bad, so Zoro's katanas were edited into wooden sticks.--69.141.190.230 21:51, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's quite clear that the material is being localized for an American audience. Media all over the world does this routinely for a large number of different programs.  Put it this way - when you ingest media through viewing, it plays into a whole cultural motif.  If you are not part of that motif, you do not understand it - you will miss jokes, miss context, miss important nuances of the program.  The average America viewer is not Japanese, and does not understand Japanese culture.  They are not hostile to it, but would be confused and probably annoyed by material they view that they are not familiar with.  This is not unique to 4kids, or to American media - for instance, even a country as similar to America as Canada would localize content like Sesame Street for a Canadian audience because the typical Canadian child does not have the same cultural references as an American.  In fact, Sesame Street has actively promoted this localization, creating "spin-offs" for many different countries under slightly different names.  Take it as much the same.  Haemo 07:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

But keeping the stuff would be a cultural experience in education. I myself had no idea what rice balls were until I started watching Anime (I do believe Digimon kept them as rice balls, but I'm not sure) but now I know a lot more about Japanese culture after watching anime shows. Plus its not like kids don't know what Sushi is, and even if they didn't they would find out easily. Also with 90% of video games coming from Japan, I'm sure children are going to know a little bit about what japanese kanji and whanot look like. So don't say its not a pointless edit, because it most definitely is. The only people that don't hate 4kids are those who don't care about anime or those who haven't found out what they did to shows (I am one of those people, I remember going to see a Pokemon movie when i was a kid and thinking "It's wonderful what these 4kids people do, brining these shows from japan here for us. See even then I knew this stuff came from Japan, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize Japanese products.). Mavrickindigo 17:15, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * True, but educational programming usually doesn't sell well. Successful products must cater to the demands of the consumers.--69.242.35.210 02:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

this reminds me of an episode of the old TMNT show. They are searching for some villain and they are in a newsroom or airport where there are clocks with times around the world on them. There was a conversation that was like "Oh no, we're too late" "No we're not, its only x o'clock in place where bad guy is" "That's right, in different parts of the world, time is different" "and they say you can't learn anything from cartoons." Now tell me that TMNT did not and does not sell well, and tell me how cultural snippets of info are not like passively referring to time zones.70.17.0.102 18:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

One Piece cancelled.
I just heard that 4kids is cancelling One Piece. Nauto 01:24, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Their source is just something on ToonZone talking about an e-mail, and Wikipedia is not for original research. Matty-chan 03:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Right, as much as I would like this news to be true, a forum post of a guy claiming to have gotten an email is not a reliable source.--130.156.198.72 21:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not just one person, multiple people have sent letters to 4Kids and gotten the same responce. (Justyn 21:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC))


 * Do you have a link?--69.141.190.230 04:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Yup, two.(Justyn 07:20, 14 December 2006 (UTC))


 * They both cite the same forum post as their source.--69.141.190.230 15:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * My point. I have decided to just call it hiatus for now unless 4Kids sends out a press release or removes it from their website (they did remove Pokémon as soon as they lost it). Any more attempts to say it is officially cancelled will be treated as vandalism. Many people can claim they have gotten e-mails, but that's still original research, especially when so many people want 4Kids to stop dubbing. News probably got out and as a chain of people who want to believe it's true, it's spreading. Matty-chan 02:48, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Why don't YOU send them an email and see what their response is? Mavrickindigo 17:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm
I'm not very versed in this 'controversy', but perhaps there can be some editing to ensure that the reader understands that the 'controversy' is pretty much Vocal Online Minority versus Quiet Offline Majority, and essentially irrelevent? Especially given that the uncut DVDs were dismal failures, the average reader should get the impression that this 'controversy' is only one in the eyes of those kind of guys that hate anything other than the original anime. Scumbag 17:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I think that by referring to the critics as primarily "anime fans" already implies...certain attributes.--130.156.198.72 21:11, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Such as? Also anime fans are the only ones that should be concerned about an Anime Dubbing Company. Do we really concern ourselves with the leader of the "Save the Whales" movement's opinion on the matter? Mavrickindigo 17:18, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * There appears to be a confusion here (I won't comment on whether or not it's delibrate and meant to be insulting) between "anime fan" and "utterly obsessed fan" and "people who like their anime mostly unedited" and "people who found some of the past anime edits to various serious somewhat perplexing".


 * "Anime fan" = DOES NOT have any "certain" implications other than the person likes Japanese animation. Seriously. I know tons and tons of people who call themselves "anime fans" and they run the gamut from pompous intellectuals publishing books on the Kabbalic references in Evangelion, to 13-year-old girls who had never heard of Evangelion and were more concerned with "shipping" (pairing up of various characters) than obscure references... or dub censoring. I've seen anime fans ranging from "purist who will never watch a show in anything but the original language", to "actually liked the dub version of Sailor Moon better." Honestly, I don't know why people are confusing ALL of the people who disliked some of 4Kids' changes with purists who pretty much think every anime is a holy text... because that isn't true, given what I've seen. Yes, you will always get the purists going into these discussions... but then you have people like me, who only find it annoying when the changes are, indeed, pointless or slightly offensive.


 * By which I mean, on shows I actually would willingly watch, say, Cardcaptor Sakura (which I don't think was a 4Kids dub, but I'm using this as an example because it's the only one I'm truly familiar with), some of the edits WERE dumb. For instance, if you watch the dub Cardcaptors (which skips the first 7 episodes of the series, despite the fact that they actually had plenty of exciting action) long enough, it starts to give the impression that Sakura is stupid and that Lee is smarter and more capable than her, or really, any other female character - the girls are portrayed as stupider and more incompetant than they are in the original, which I can tell you, certainly surprised people like me, who had heard much ado about how the show was "empowering for young girls". The original (and the subtitled version of the series, which begins with the first episode) has her as actually being fairly clever at figuring out how to capture the Clow cards despite the weird and unexpected situations they cause. They took a show that was a great little show with a little something for everyone and a smart young lead female character, and turned it into a slightly misogynistic Boys Club show. Did I care that Japanese elements were removed that wouldn't have been understood by most of the Kids WB audience? No. Did I care that they changed the opening theme entirely, from a light and girly upbeat pop song to the melodramatic Cardcaptors theme? No. Did I care that they changed names to things like "Madison"? Nope, not in the least. But did I dislike that they totally mucked around with the entire aim and message of the series, taking what was a girl-friendly action series (with little in the original to offend Western sensibilities) and turning it into an unfortunately typical "boys rule, girls drool" cartoon series? You bet.


 * I'd also like to note that while shows like Yu-Gi-Oh! may have sold poorly uncut, Cardcaptor Sakura ' s subtitled-only release that had no dub and almost no special features on the DVDs sold BETTER than the somewhat butchered dub version (Cardcaptors) ever did. Which makes me strongly suspect that it's a matter of audience for a particular show, not a matter of audience for uncut kids' anime in particular. Also, note that while the early Sailor Moon English dub is sometimes also considered "butchered", that it still kept the basic spirit of the series largely intact and sold quite well... as did the uncut subtitled releases of those same seasons, sold several years later. The edited dub VHS of the third and fourth seasons (which were more poorly-dubbed, being less consistent and featuring crappier voices for most of the characters, but at least didn't lose the girl-friendliness) as I recall sold not as well as the uncut subtitled VHS... but I seem to recall the bilingual DVDs selling quite well; there having been (eventually) a halfway decent market for both versions, obviously. Again - it depends on the audience for a PARTICULAR show, not kids' anime in particular. There were plenty of adult anime fans who thought CCS was cute and clever, or had nostalgia (as in my case) for Sailor Moon. These are largely the people buying the uncut releases. Newer shows I'm guessing have had less time to grow an adult audience that would be willing to buy uncut releases. Not that teens and kids don't sometimes want to watch stuff subtitled, but the majority seem to be fine with an OK dub, more compared to adults I would say. 4.238.9.228 16:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * That's all well and good, but I watched Cardcaptors regularly back in middle school and thought it was a great show. Of course, I had never even heard of the japanese version, like 99% of all kids in America at that time.

I'm sure anime fans are a great bunch of people, I'm one myself, but point being its a niche market.--69.242.35.210 05:27, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Hahaha, title vandalism
Someone's vulgarised the title...but nevertheless, it seems to suit them more than "4Kids".Centurion Ry 19:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Criticism Section
Okay, I spent my New Year's Eve going through that section with a fine-toothed comb. First of all, I don't have a hat in this arena, so I really don't care either way about this topic. However, you will note that I actually did not remove very much material - the majority of what was removed generally became redundant when I tightened the organization and wording. Anyways, my major changes are summarized below:


 * Reorganized the entire section, primarily for logical reasons, but also to improve readability.
 * Changed formatting, puncutation, and grammar to comply with Wikipedia standards.
 * Created minor edits for tone in several places, added explanatory material in others.
 * Expanded the list of "typical edits" based on a reading of several related articles.
 * Attempted to produce a more neutral, and encyclopedic tone in the section
 * Deleted a largely inconsequential, or unrelated, discussion of manga reading habits at the end of the article, in the last section
 * Removed the "neutrality" and "clean-up" flags. Feel free to replace these if you feel this was premature.  I noticed this article does not get a lot of traffic, so I opted to remove them now, rather than later.

However, in the course of editing, I noticed that there remain several outstanding issues.


 * Insufficient sourcing. The article appears well-sourced, but it does not run deep.  Most of these sources are from one or two interviews.  More background material needs to be developed.
 * Lacks scholarly opinion. Althought I strove to eliminate them, there remains an "opinion" section which requires an authoritative source for the viewpoint.  In fact, this whole section lacks perspective, but (as I mentioned) I am not familiar enough with the subject material to do more than a relatively superficial neutrality edit.
 * Final section is confusing. It is not apparent that this constitutes a major scandal at all.  Frankly, it should either be removed or sources with more perspective need to be produced.  I attempted to trim it down to the very meat of the point made, but unless this is expanded this article will never reach a high-class rating.

Anyways, it was a good experience editing this, and I would definitely appreciate any and all feedback. Haemo 09:21, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

VG Cats link

 * I've removed the remaining link to the VG Cats strip since webcomics are not reliable sources. Perhaps if the section was making a direct reference to that strip, it would have been justifiable. But to use it to back up a vaguely worded statement about critics' views isn't acceptable. --TheFarix (Talk) 19:36, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I agree with this edit. When I was re-working the original pages, I noticed it and thought it was odd.  However, I don't really know anything about VG Cats, so I thought I'd give them a benefit of a doubt.  Upon re-reading the standards, though, it appears that it is not reliable, and I strongly support this.  --Haemo 22:58, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Magical DoReMi girls "sexy"?
I have heard that Al Kahn has said that the Magical DoReMi girls' outfits are "sexy". Does anyone know when and where he said this and what his exact words were? 124.181.206.118 17:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

That never happened to my knowledge. If it did, I imagine it would have gathered a ton of attention.--69.141.190.230 00:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a soapbox. Please limit your discussions to improving the article, etc, not the article's subject. Matty-chan 19:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I found this on http://animenation.net/news/index.php?id=5490 According to C21 Media News, 4Kids Entertainment is in final negotiations to acquire the English language translation and distribution rights to the wildly successful Ojamajo Doremi shoujo anime TV series. "4Kids' CEO Al Khan told C21 that he is bringing the toon to Fox Box in an attempt to expand the gender demographic of the block... 'The designs are pretty so they appeal to girls, but the characters are very sexy so boys like them,' he said. 'We're hoping to mix and match the block's gender appeal.'" I think this would be significant enough to add to the article. --124.181.247.231 16:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Has this quote caused any reaction from any news sources? Anyone at all?--69.141.190.230 19:25, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

If you guys are looking for information that news sources would talk about, I suggest deleting this whole page because no one really cares about this aside from children and anime fans. 70.17.0.102 18:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * If we practised that kind of standard ("nobody cares about this aside from..."), pretty much all of Wikipedia would be gone. Articles on film stars? Clearly only film lovers and fangirls/fanboys care about those. Articles on TV shows? Only fans of the show or people wanting to look into it would care. Olympic athletes? Only people who like sports. Astronomy, chemistry, physics or biology? Pish! Only science nerds care, right? American Civil War? Come on, it happened like a century and a half ago, and nobody but historians and re-enacters cares anymore, right? :P


 * If we apply the other portion of your "we should delete this" comment, there should not be an article on Acrylic glass, since surely few notable news sources care about Plexiglas, right? And by your argument, Anna Nicole Smith is more worthy of an article here than heliocentric theory, because every idiot news source from here to infinity seems to be covering Smith's death and whatnot, but most people accept heliocentric theory as a given, and it hasn't been controversial in centuries.


 * This is why Wikipedia has an NPOV policy. This article's subject is notable for being a successful and well-known nationwide American business in the entertainment feild, and for a mild level of controversy regarding some of their adaptations of Japanese series for American audiences. Note of course that it's not just "children and anime fans" who have cared; 4Kids has also come under fire from conservative groups in the U.S. for the content in some of their shows.


 * Of course, though, aside from that.. there ARE news sources that would talk about it. For instance, Anime News Network is, by definition, primarily a news source similar to Time Magazine, Entertainment Weekly, or many newspapers... it just happens to be focused on stuff relating to Japanese entertainment (and before you say "it's only online!" They merged with another company so that now they also co-operate a fairly popular print magazine). 4.238.9.228 16:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Second major update
I've updated all of the lists, trimmed down some material, merged others. Very little information was lost, just moved around. All of the sections modified conform to WP:STYLE, to the best of my knowledge, and there are only a few more things to do before this article is probably ready to be nominated for an improvement in class:


 * Organize the corporate material more properly. 4Kids is a large company, and has many branches.  Currently, the "Leadership" section is floating at the end of the article and lacks sources.  Add these.  Any input on where this should go would be appreciated.
 * Trim/reorganize the links at the bottom. These are coming close to conflicting with WP:NPOV, and they can probably be integrated into the criticism section without pause - especially the "selected critism" and "selected edits".  These really should go.  Okay, I've killed these.  The criticism section definitely doesn't meet NPOV requirements for inclusion - the sentiment is already reflected in the criticism section, and unless we can find some professional and authoritative links for criticism, I don't think these should be re-added.  I also killed a non-functional link, for obvious reasons.  Still need to figure out what to do with the "edits" links.
 * I remain skeptical about the noteriety of the "Kids don't read" fiasco, and am probably could to remove it unless better documentation can be found, or something strongly objects. Upon further research, this appears notable.  I will leave it in - but it really should be moved to Alfred R. Kahn, since it has more to do with him, than it has to do with 4Kids.  However, since that page is basically contentless, I will leave it here for now.
 * Fix the "awards" section - it too, seems random. I am considering merging the leadership and awards section together, since they appear to have considerable overlap at this point in time.    I have deleted this section, and moved it to Alfred R. Kahn instead.  That article needs some TLC, but it's really not relevant for 4Kids Entertainment.
 * FIND MORE, AND BETTER SOURCES. This is, by far, this article's weakest point at this time.  We need to source our information properly, and use a variety of sources - the Anime News Network cannot comprise 3/4's of our links.

Cheers, and happy editing. --Haemo 10:30, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, ANN is actually considered fairly reliable as a source for anime-related things, but I do get what you're saying. 4.238.9.228 16:55, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

The Legend of Zelda and Banjo-Kazooie
Okay, I couldn't find any sources for a Legend of Zelda license aquired by 4Kids Entertainment, and Banjo-Kazooie is only a rumoured production. Rumours do not qualify under WP:VERIFY for inclusion, and I'm afraid I had to remove both. If you have sources that confirm, to the standards required, that these programs are in production, please both produce them and re-list the shows. Until them, I think they should remain deleted. --Haemo 09:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * For Banjo, see http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=4650 Matty-chan 19:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, see, this is what I was referring to when I said "rumor". They're hypothesizing a future Banjo-Kazooie game, and cartoon series.  However, the article is specifically a guess about future content - they say, in the article:


 * "'[O]ur money is firmly behind Banjo-Kazooie to appear on the Xbox 360, be turned into a cartoon and anything else that can sting the public for a few extra quid here and there, such as card games and toiletries.'"


 * As it says in WP:TRIV, "[Wikipedia] is not a dumping ground for speculation, rumor, hearsay, invented "facts", or libel." Since this clearly falls under rumor, I'm going to have to maintain that we keep it out of the article.  --Haemo 00:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Also considering that Nintendo took Pokemon away from them and are work less with them I doubt they would give them the Zelda Franchise.--70.48.110.117 04:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

"There is no controversy"
deleted the opening line "and an ongoing controversy over their editing practice", asserting "there is no controversy outside of anime circles". I would argue that this should be included - 4Kids Entertainment has made its name in the industry by primarily distributing and marketing anime products. If there is a controversy in the anime community - and this is a significant one, as far as they go, then it needs to be mentioned. Not only does it comprise a significant section of the current article, it is also one of the most enduring and recognizable associations that is made with the 4Kids name. It needs to stay, in some form. --Haemo 00:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you. If there is an ongoing controversy with fans of the original product that 4kids is editing and distributing, then it is indeed "significant". 124.181.247.231 16:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not saying that the "controversy" among anime fans isn't signifigant, it is, thats why we have a section about it in the article. I'm saying that this "controversy" isn't on a scale nearly large enough to have much real-world impact.   When it comes to defining what 4Kids is "most well-known for", their success with adapting the Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh franchises absolutely dwarfs the significance of whatever conversations take place on anime forums.--69.141.190.230 19:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I understand where you're coming from here, but it's a decidedly non-trivial issue, even outside the anime community. Most people are aware of the censorship issue, and tend to talk about it when 4Kids entertainment is referenced.  If you compare this to the Microsoft article, you can see that their anti-trust problems are references front and center in the leading blurb.  Our blurb is much shorter, but the point is still taken.  4Kids is not talked about a lot in the media - GNews brings up only a handful of hits - but even among those the editing issue is mentioned:
 * http://starbulletin.com/2006/12/25/features/yadao.html
 * http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=14001
 * That is, out of the 25 news stories that GNews tracks about 4Kids, 2 of them reference their editing practices. However, I do understand your point, and believe that if we can expand the leading blurb somewhat, it will be safe to mention both.  Put it this way - a company can be "well-known" for several different things; not all of them have to be on the same scale in order to be included.  4Kids chiefly aims at its fanbase to pitch shows to, and the controversy chiefly exists among that fanbase.  I don't know how you're defining "real world impact", but that definitely comprises such a thing in my opinion, given that (as the article shows) 4Kids has been forced to specifically address these concerns in their announcements, and in the products they issue.  Also, I would just like to note that you should try and reach consensus on the the talk page before deleting content, rather than vice-versa.  --Haemo 03:51, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, since there wasn't any further discussion for a few days I assumed that there wasn't anything left to discuss. Anyway, the blurb discusses what 4Kids entertainment is "most well-known for".  The keyword is "most".  The mainstream media only cites them as being the owners of the Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh properties, and as being one of the best-performing publicly-traded stocks of the late 90's.  That is, with the exception of a column in a single issue of the Honolulu Star Bulletin, and one sentence of a online review of a Pokemon DVD, taken from the toonzone website which is part of the anime fan community.  --69.141.190.230 08:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you're applying an unfair standard here. As I mentioned, 4Kids Entertainment is not really mentioned in the mainstream media at all.  If you look at Google News, most of it has to do with routine business announcements and partnerships.  I think we have to consider that their products are chiefly aimed at the anime community, and any controversy there needs to be reflected in the article.  However, I'm coming around to your point of view, and believe that unless we can seriously expand the first paragraph, it doesn't meet WP:NPOV to mention the criticism there - as you said, we have a full section on it later on.  --Haemo 22:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * What? 4Kids does not aim their products at the anime community, their products are aimed at children aged 6-12.  This is one reason why 4Kids and its shareholders consider complaints from anime fans to be irrelevant, they are coming from a different market..--69.141.190.230 03:42, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Er, that wasn't exactly what I meant - I meant they chiefly target at the community of children who typically watch their previous programs. It was probably incorrect to call that an "anime community".  However, I agree with you now.  --Haemo 04:18, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The anime fanbase often crosses over into the 6-12 fanbase. Have you ever seen the 4Kids forums? They are full of pre-teens who consider themselves anime fans and quite a few of them actually use the character's Japanese names in their posts about shows like Ojamajo Doremi or Tokyo Mew Mew. Their love of anime is what draws them to watch 4Kids shows in the first place, then they Google their favourite 4Kids shows, and get directed to websites that expose 4Kids harsh editing practices, and then become upset that their favourite anime shows are being hacked up like this, then they go download subtitled uncut Japanese versions of the shows, quit watching 4Kids TV, and become part of the large "anti-4Kids" part of the anime fanbase. --Candy-Panda 01:21, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

"Expanding" the Criticism section
This is just a note - the last revision of the criticism simply reverted all of the material that I had specifically edited down. I thought, and no one had disputed, that I had retained all of the substantive content in that section, while still reducing either POV material, or simply non-neutral tone (either by actual wording, or surplus detail). Please, do not revert sections like that without discussing it - the "expansion", in my opinion, did not add anything to the article, while seriously compromising both the technical quality and the overal neutrality of the article as a whole. Again, please do not delete content without discussing it here. --Haemo 04:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Most of what you say needs to be explained in a certain light (since it's a touchy subject to some, example explaining how they edit shows) i had cleaned and changed the tone of the article while trying to included arguments from both sides. Your revision leans a little to much on the fan side (mostly in describing the edits). i had cleaned the article prior and had forgotten to remove the tags. (Ke5crz 05:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC))


 * Hmm - I believe the current edit, as it currently stands, more accurately than the previous revision did. Mostly, in re-editing the article, I focused on providing a focus for each of the claims - rather than simply provided a textual "list" of comments by different parties.  I removed very little material - and what I did remove, mostly was done so because it had become redundant, or unrelated.  Frankly, I'm not a fan of anime or manga - I don't watch/read either - and began editing this article solely because it needed clean-up.  I believe the typical edits, as described, are both fair and balanced - and have been described, as such by the management at 4Kids.  However, I understand your criticism, and am editing them to remove the implication that 4Kids is directly involved in them - since it should be apparent, by context, and thus repeated mentions could be construed as being biased.  Thanks for your comments, though - I very much enjoy feedback, and discussion, on what is being presented.  I always felt the "edits" section was somewhat weaker than the rest, and am glad to hear confirmation on it.  --Haemo 06:04, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Cat Fanicer's Socitey and the RAF?
Is this true?--Hailey 02:28, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Unbelievably, yes, it is. You can check it out here.  Look under properties.  They're releasing toys based on the RAF, and I think cute cat photos with the Cat Fanciers, or something.  --Haemo 04:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I looked and the RAF thing seems alright.--Hailey 04:27, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Question
How do I can contact 4 kids entertainment so that I can get a response from what 4 kids email easier? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shirleybiscuit (talk • contribs) 03:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC).


 * You could go to http://www.4kidsentertainment.com/home/home.php and use the contact information there.--68.44.84.120 05:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


 * They're not very helpful. I asked a week or so ago if they had any information about their CEO, so I could improve the article (and his), but they haven't replied.   --Haemo 07:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, under the web page titled "Leadership Team", they had this short bio of CEO Al Kahn:

Alfred R. Kahn is Chairman and CEO of 4Kids Entertainment, Inc. - a New York Stock Exchange-listed Company that is a global provider of children's entertainment and merchandise licensing. Mr. Kahn joined Leisure Concepts, Inc. (predecessor to 4Kids Entertainment's licensing division) in 1988 and is the architect of its expansion into a vertically integrated group of companies collectively known as 4Kids Entertainment, Inc. Mr. Kahn is a leading figure in the licensing industry, responsible for many of its biggest hits, including Pokemon, Cabbage Patch Kids and Yu-Gi-Oh! Mr. Kahn's entrepreneurial insight and unique youth-oriented marketing strategies are the hallmarks of his corporate vision. In 1992, Mr. Kahn added television production and distribution and media planning and buying to 4Kids Entertainment's licensing business by forming two subsidiaries: 4Kids Productions, Inc. and The Summit Media Group, Inc. In 2000, Mr. Kahn created 4Kids Technology, Inc. and Websites 4Kids, Inc. In January 2002, Mr. Kahn again expanded the scope of the Company by winning the bidding to lease Fox Broadcasting's Saturday morning children's block. The programming block, called the 4Kids TV, commenced with Fox's Fall 2002 schedule. With the additional hours of programming, the Company has become one of the largest suppliers of children's entertainment content to network television in the United States, with an average of 11 shows and 11 hours per week of programming in the 2002/2003 broadcast season. Also in 2002, Mr. Kahn added 4Kids Entertainment Home Video, Inc. and 4Kids Entertainment Music, Inc.

Mr. Kahn has created a fully integrated platform that positions 4Kids Entertainment to harness and reap the rewards of some of the most exciting children's entertainment in the world. Mr. Kahn is a pioneer in identifying trends in Japanese popular culture and adapting them to a global audience, which has led to many successes for the Company, including Pok&eacute;mon and Yu-Gi-Oh! A licensing and merchandising veteran with a strong retail background, Mr. Kahn was previously Executive Vice President of Marketing for Coleco Toys, where he is best known for acquiring the license and then mapping out the marketing strategy for the Cabbage Patch Kids. Mr. Kahn received his bachelor's degree from C.W. Post College.

I think that ought to be enough.--69.141.190.230 22:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I am aware of this source - it appears to be the only public biography. However, it's not very good as a biography - it's a very nice corporate biography, but it basically ignores Mr Kahn outside of his professional life.  Furthermore, I'm not about to take 4Kids promotional material as encyclopedic content for this article.  --Haemo 00:11, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, yeah there is a lot of marketing fluff in that, but you can pick out the factual stuff from it pretty easily. Does Kahn do anything notable outside of his profession?--69.141.190.230 01:14, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Probably not, but how can we tell? Furthermore, we have only even a corporate history for his time at 4Kids.  What else did he do?  Who knows!  If you feel you have enough info to do a good write, WP:BB!  --Haemo 05:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Help
Can you give some 4 kids email adresses I can contact because I can't find anything you said on the 4 kids entertainment home page.Shirleybiscuit


 * Todd Fromer
 * KCSA Public and Investor Relations Worldwide
 * 212-896-1215
 * tfromer@kcsa.com


 * Corporate Offices
 * 4Kids Entertainment, Inc.
 * 1414 Avenue of the Americas
 * New York, NY
 * 10019
 * 212-758-7666


 * Here you go! --Haemo 00:11, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Here is something a little more relevant:


 * Daniel Barnathan
 * Executive Vice President of Sales, Marketing & Promotions, Fox Box 4Kids Ad Sales
 * dbarnathan@4kidsent.com


 * Sare Stern Levin
 * Vice President, Corporate Communications
 * phone: 646-822-4257
 * slevin@4kidsent.com

--69.141.190.230 01:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Question
Sorry to ask this question but when you send a message to 4 kids entertainment how long does it take for them to respond because for me they didn't answer my question for a very long time when I send a message. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shirleybiscuit (talk • contribs) 23:03, 1 February 2007 (UTC).


 * I suppose it would depend on who you ask, and what the content of your email was, and whether or not they want to answer.--69.242.35.210 00:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * They still haven't replied to me, so frankly, don't hold your breath. --Haemo 01:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * You could try a phonecall.--69.242.35.210 01:26, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * "Please stay on your long-distance phone-line while we put you on hold for a half hour, before spontaneously disconnecting you". No, I don't think that's going to happen, hahah.  --Haemo 04:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I live in NY, which is where their headquarters is. I could just go there on someone's behalf (if I can find it).--69.242.35.210 20:32, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Send them some petrol bombs, and when they get to hell, tell them to tell them that The Centurion sent them.Centurion Ry 18:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Cartoons: Serious Business--69.242.35.210 21:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

question
What is Alfred R.Kahn 4 kids email address to contact him?Shirleybiscuit


 * It isn't posted to the public, use the contact information that is given by their corporate website. Also, stop asking making new headlines to ask the same question.--69.242.35.210 02:32, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

one piece question
Why on properties that shows the cartoons they have on the 4kids website why is one piece remove on there?Shirleybiscuit


 * Because that property is on hiatus. --Haemo 04:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Wait... it's off the site? Then it is cancelled. Matty-chan 04:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

thats proberly for the best they kind of ruined One PieceRocks Lotus 15:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Please limit your discussion to the article, not the article's general subject. Matty-chan 22:39, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Is it really cancelled? I thought they were going to start airing new episodes again on Toonami.--69.242.35.210 00:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, 4Kids stopped, but not all the English episodes have aired in the US. There are a total of 104 English episodes, and we have seen 77 in the US. The remaining episodes are airing on Toonami. Matty-chan 01:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * So the series hasn't actually been terminated by any television network.--69.242.35.210 03:44, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah but the US is going to run out of episodes when they air English episode 104. Matty-chan 06:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Thats assuming they don't dub any more episodes. Currently they are not in the process of dubbing, but nearly every television production company takes breaks during the production of television series.  We don't have any indication that they don't plan to dub more in the future, and if the current batch of episodes were to show good ratings on Toonami then they undoubtedly will.--69.242.35.210 21:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * You know, I never thought of it that way. So technically, saying it's cancelled is still original research. *moves back* Matty-chan 22:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Actuallly, I'm not sure anymore. It's not just 4KidsEntertainment.com, but every piece of evidence of it ever existing was removed from 4Kids.TV and 4KidsEntertainment.com, except a few pictures of Luffy on the latter, and in a list of shows in the Properties section, but then again, Pokémon is still in that too. Maybe it is gone. Matty-chan 04:26, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I forgot about the website. Nevermind--69.242.35.210 22:06, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Kappa Mikey
The show "Kappa Mikey" is listed as a production of 4Kids, but the show's own article says that it is produced by Animation Collective, while some of 4Kids' voice actors, primarily Dan Green, work on the program. Does that really warrant its inclusion in the list of 4Kids productions? LouisianaFan 04:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not just things they internally produce; it's material they produce, distribute, and license. --Haemo 06:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Plagiarism?
Just because it's an unusual case, can we include a blurb about a time 4Kids plagiarized a fan website for their own? :D I have photographic evidence. But it's probably not important enough I guess. But definitely funny. Ivyna J. Spyder 03:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * No original research. Unless you have notable and verifiable sources for this, it shouldn't be included.  --Haemo 03:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Category:4Kids cast members
After discussion at Categories for discussion/Log/2007_January_25, it was decided that Category:4Kids cast members would be better presented as a list (i.e. listify). Is anyone interested in doing this? Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think 4kids has an in-house recording studio. If that's the case, then they wouldn't really have a static cast of voice actors.--69.242.35.210 21:23, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm back!
This article was my old stomping grounds, so I've decided to come back and clean it up. When I left, it suffered from some serious undue weight issues, and was something of a general mess. I've come back, and fixed it up - very little actual content has been removed; most was either condensed, or moved to a related page. This version reflects an encyclopedic merit much more than then the previous - and it much less prone to POV vandalism. --Haemo 08:05, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Propose protection for article
I recently saw two cases of vandalism to this article I think it is wise to semi-protect this article.71.128.114.22 19:45, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Eh, I disagree - we've only had two cases of vandalism in the last week, and both were by the same user, on the same day. We've also had good, constructive edits by anonymous users in that time period.  I'm loathe to semi-protect an article on such a basis, and cut out all their helpful contributions.  --Haemo 21:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Umm I think that Swastika vandalism has gone over the edge right there, I propose immediate semiprotection. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.238.72.145 (talk • contribs).
 * It seems that vandalism to this article is getting pretty frequent. Therefore, I agree that this page should be semi-protected to ward off the vandals. However, I would like to reach a majority consensus among the users discussing here before I resort to formally requesting that this page be protected. --Andrewlp1991 06:01, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Follow-up: As I monitor the history of this page I want to cover my eyes, simply because I notice that vandalism is increasing as the days go by. Look at the most recent (but reverted) edit to this page and you'll see. --Andrewlp1991 05:21, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the goat.se image has crossed the line. As a devil's advocate, I propose immediate semi-protection. Worlder 03:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I knew it! This page was gonna be semi-protected one day or another! The vandalism surely did progress from "isolated" to "perpetual". Geez, why can't those otakus just get a life and do something that won't make them vandalize Wikipedia? Seems that people like Stephen Colbert and Weird Al sure have contributed to the increase of vandalism to Wikipedia lately, huh? --Andrewlp1991 06:04, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok who here thinks this article should be semi-protected indefinitely? Because those anime zealots are not going to get discouraged by a temporary protection, even if it lasts for months.Worlder 01:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll add another semiprotection. :) WhisperToMe 01:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It is already semi-protect just be longer, like forever. Because those anime fundamentalists just won't give up their useless annoying crusade for cartoon riceballs!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Worlder (talk • contribs) 02:48, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I just proposed indefinite semi-protection for this article. So those that wish to vandalize 4kids Entertainment's article,get a name, ya extremists.Worlder 21:06, 30 September 2007 (UTC) I told you that the first moments we life protection those racist asshole Otakus would come flooding back in to butch the company. Worlder 22:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Look. Stop it with the uncivility and personal remarks, will you? Yes, there is vandalism. If the vandalism increases, we just ask for semi-protection again. This is nowhere near being one of the most vandalised pages, and not all animé fans are "racist asshole Otakus" or "anime fundamentalists" on an "annoying crusade for cartoon riceballs". If you have an axe to grind, Wikipedia is not the place to do it. --Dreaded Walrus t c 00:35, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Kudos to you, Dreaded Walrus. Keep a sense of civility, everyone. Don't descend to their level. Goldy496 (talk) 17:16, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

4Kids TV and the YA market
Hi. I recently had an edit reverted. The edit in question was regarding the demographics of 4Kids TV, which does not aim toward the YA market obviously. I do not wish to trigger an "edit war", but I'd rather make a good negotiation over an apparently "misleading" sentence. For now I've reverted the sentence AGAIN, because "4Kids TV is aimed toward...young adults" simply does not make sense. --198.189.198.2 19:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hm, posted only a minute before I told you to take it to the talk page. No matter.  I reverted your edit for the last time, and please leave it that way until the discussion here is complete.  You've provided no solid points as to why you should remove that phrase, and all you're running on is your own opinion, which is not a reliable source.  Also, the sentence is not misleading, as 4Kids programming is geared towards the 8-13-year-old market, if I'm not mistaken.  I think there are some who call children in their early to mid teens "young adults" these days.  But, as for this, please leave the article at the original version until a concensus is reached, mm'kay?   Lychosis   T / C  19:18, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree with you. If you look up young adult on Wikipedia, it will say that it is between the ages of 18-25, while on google the definition is 16-25.  Jezebel Parks 20:58, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, considering they specifically in their market prospectus say that they're targeting more of their material towards the young adult market - typically, this means in the ill-defined area that includes teenagers and tweens - I think we should take them at their word. --Haemo 22:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with Jezebel Parks about the definition of "young adult" and do agree on the "correct" definition of young adult. Therefore, I would like to remove the "young adult" part if I could, but I am not budging to edit until I see some agreements when I check back here later. I have good reason to question the inclusion of "young adult" in the sentence regarding 4Kids TV. Go to the actual 4Kids TV article, and it does not mention young adults anywhere. So why should this page regarding its parent company claim so? Besides, look carefully at the company's name: 4KIDS. Not 4teens as if it would be if aimed toward the YA market. Besides, I can tell you that the average 16-25 year old who has even heard of 4Kids Entertainment before might have contempt for it based on the "criticism and controversy" section of the 4Kids Entertainment Wikipedia article. Therefore, I would like to have the "young adult" part removed, as it clearly does not make sense, but for now I will not rush to edit it out because chances are it was included there for a reason. So far reading this talk page I am not thoroughly convinced that "young adult" should stay. I am giving it once last shot before I remove it. --Andrewlp1991 05:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I just edited out "young adult" - but I hit Enter just before i was about to finish my edit reason, it was because the article for 4Kids TV does not say young adult. --198.189.198.2 17:18, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Certainly agree, as I searched "young adults" on 4Kidsentertainment.com via google and there was no mention of 4Kids actually intending to aim 4Kids TV toward the YA market, though "Young adults" is ocassionaly mentioned on their site in other contexts. --Andrewlp1991 17:21, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Majority of shows done by 4Kids are definitely aimed at the younger crowd. I don't have the time to look up the information, but I don't believe anything worse than Y7 is in their showcase. Goldy496 (talk) 17:19, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

CW acquisition
I think we need to expect a rush of vandalism because of this. Worlder 23:21, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Just keep watch, and if a wide level of vandalism occurs from multiple users, then be ready to take it to WP:AIV. I would keep watch myself, but I'm going to sleep in a short while. I'll keep watch when I do get back, though. :) --Dreaded Walrus t c 23:32, 3 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Aaand, it's been protected for two weeks, so you're safe. :) --Dreaded Walrus t c 07:22, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * However when the vandalism lifts, this article is going to be under even more attacks by those AnimeTojos! The good thing though is that if they vandalize enough within one timeframe we can call for indefinite semi-protection. Worlder 23:41, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * We're open for an attack quickly get an indefinte semiprotection. This page is low management it, doesn't require unregistered to contribute (in fact most of the unregisters are vandals to this page).Worlder 21:30, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I told you! The moment we lift semi-protection, those Otakus start flooding back in!Worlder 14:29, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * See my response at the bottom of . --Dreaded Walrus t c 00:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Worlder,stop making personal attacks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.194.7.41 (talk) 23:25, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

4Kids on Fox to End Broadcast in 2009
TGS = 4Kids: The Game Station (Fox)/CW = The CW 4Kids (The CW)

Well even though i've seen the edits that 4Kids have done to One Piece and the rants that followed on Youtube and other video-sharing sites, I might say that it's about time that TGS pulled the plug on its broadcast on Fox, even though 4Kids isn't gone completely since their other broadcast station CW is the only remaining one left. I haven't seen TGS's final broadcast last Saturday (12-29-2008), but at least some anime fans are celebrating its demise.

One of the 4Kids columns is knocked down, but one still remains.

I mean, after all, if TGS didn't acquire the rights to One Piece in the first place they would've never did their controversial and ridiculous editing practices that gave the company a very bad name, and TGS would still be broadcasting in 2009. I guess that this could be chalked up to karma, or something similar I guess.

But as I said, the demise of TGS isn't the complete demise of 4Kids overall. 4Kids is still alive with their other broadcast station, The CW. --72.155.175.144 (talk) 07:33, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Where's your actual source for this poppycock? --Coconutfred73 (talk) 00:15, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

http://cartoonelectro.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/starting-jan-3-2009-more-infomercials-and-local-news-on-fox/

http://www.animenews.biz/fox-to-replace-saturday-morning-cartoons-with-infomercials-328/

http://toonbarn.com/2008/11/say-it-aint-so-fox-kids/

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/tv/fox-dumps-cartoons-for-infomercials.html

http://www.tv.com/animation/4kids-leaving-fox/topic/106-1183385/msgs.html

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-11-10/4kids-to-terminate-fox-programming-block-in-december

"It was announced in November 2008 that the 4Kids TV block would conclude at the end of the year due to a payment/distribution dispute between 4Kids and Fox. The block ended on December 27, 2008.[3] Fox announced that the time would no longer be used for kids programming, owing that it was no longer viable due to the burden of E/I programming and the insurmountable competition from Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network and Discovery Kids since the time was used for kids programming since 1990.[4] On Jaunary 3, 2009, the network will give two hours back to affiliates (likely to encourage them to begin Saturday morning newscasts or make fulfilling their E/I requirements easier), while the other two hours will become an informercial block titled Weekend Marketplace.[5] The 4KidsTV logo now only exists as the closing logo for 4Kids Entertainment for 4Kids shows run outside of The CW4Kids block outside of the United States.

4Kids launched an online video player on their website on September 8, 2007, and has been adding full episodes and more videos and content since then. However, it was revamped on September 25, 2008, though in beta testing. Promotions state that 4Kids TV will be "moving online" starting in January 2009, implying that the video player will take full effect then, possibly no longer being in beta testing." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4Kids_TV (Actual paragraphs from the wiki)

http://www.variety.com/VR1117996360.html

http://nerddads.com/4kids-killed-the-saturday-morning-cartoon-star/

http://www.he-man.org/forums/boards/showthread.php?p=2008146

http://www.fosters-home.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3534

http://emeraldage.net/WordPress/2008/11/24/fox-is-out-of-the-saturday-morning-cartoon-business/

Need anymore proof or sources of this? --65.4.181.182 (talk) 10:24, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Moral conservatives
I just read that part in the controversy section regarding the Parents TV group criticizing "4Kids' dubs." They're not doing that, actually. It seems like the entire articles were criticizing the shows themselves, not whether or not dubbing is involved. They've drawn comparisons to other shows, and they've never mentioned 4Kids. Whoever inserted this part into the article must have misinterpreted it. 71.146.76.206 (talk) 02:48, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I should clairfy that. It's confusing, currently. --Haemo (talk) 03:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I edited it to let the fact that PTC's study criticized the [heavily dubbed] Shaman King to speak for itself. --Andrewlp1991 (talk) 18:26, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

4Kids is up for sale
Bad news. 4Kids is up for sale.--72.148.3.214 (talk) 00:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, according to the Anime News Network article, they said that they had retained the financial advisor Montgomery & Co. to help evaluate its strategic alternatives including, but not limited to, asset sales, alliances with strategic partners, and/or a sale of the Company through a merger or other corporate transaction. So 4Kids is not going anywhere until the process ends or until it decides otherwise. --Girla PurpleHeart (talk) 22:42, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Is there a source for either of those (aside from animenetwork which really isn't official)? It should be put in the article if it is.  And is there an update?--70.103.90.123 (talk) 09:01, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

4Kids fullly delisted
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/adv.php?ref=/news/stock-alert/kde_4kids-entertainment-announces-move-of-its-common-stock-from-nyse-to-otcbb-956095.html

Now 4Kids is on the OTCBB. Here's hoping for a longer downfall. :D 66.140.85.15 (talk) 11:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Dead link
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://app.quotemedia.com/data/newsItem.htm?webmasterId=92403&storyId=14004012&topic=KDE
 * In Fox Broadcasting Company on 2011-03-19 11:16:15, 404 Not Found
 * In 4Kids Entertainment on 2011-06-19 14:09:09, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 14:09, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Lawsuit and Bankruptcy
The trail for the lawsuit took place in August, at least the first phase anyway, so why has there been no updates on it, did they win, settle out of court lose? if anyone has fount anything, I can't find anything no matter where I look, please update the Lawsuit and Bankruptcy section. DreamsDreams (talk) 21:48, 14 October 2011 (UTC)DreamsDreams

Removing controversity section
I propose that this article be removed of the controversity section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Worlder (talk • contribs) 13:43, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I second that motion. --Coconutfred73 19:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Anyone else that controversity section is a deformity upon this company and it wiki article. I say that it be removed so it so no one will ever be reminded of this again.Worlder 23:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

If it is a deformity, then it means that controversy sections are abnormal, no? The controversy here is actually mainly fan criticism. I do not know whether other companies have much fan criticism, but if other companies do not also have much fan criticism as much as this one, then this abnormal controversy should be noted, and thus not removed in my opinion.--A 21:28, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Fine but I feel that this controversy section acts an auxiliary magnet for vandalism and constant fuel for hatred towards the company. I feel that that the wikipedians defending the integrity of the article (and the company as we've became devil's advocates through this article) would have a alot less work if we removed the this section and put the article on indefinite semi-protection. Worlder 01:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, if many people hate this company, then of course that is the controversy, isn't it? It should just be monitored to see that it is about what is popularly hated about this company rather than to have the intent of propaganda.--A 04:01, 2 October 2007 (UTC) Also, some have vandalized this particular section, but certainly not the majority of vandalizations are localized within this particular section. Even if it were, removing pertinent information would certainly not be constructive towards documenting pertinent facts.--A 04:16, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * (in response to Worlder) The Paris Hilton article was vandalised a lot around the time when she was in jail, and yet we kept mention of it in the article. Whenever someone famous dies, the article is vandalised a lot, and yet we still mention the death in the article. When an article is on the front page, it is usually vandalised a lot, yet we do not delete the entire article ;). If this article is vandalised, we revert the vandalism, and place the appropriate warning template on the talk page of the particular vandal. If this article is vandalised a lot by a particular vandal, we go to Administrator intervention against vandalism, and they get blocked. If this article is vandalised a lot, every day, by lots of different users, we take it to requests for page protection, and get it semi-protected. The company is one of the most criticised of all localisation companies, due to the methods it uses, and the section is well-sourced (five different references for the section, though more would always be good), and relatively well-written. The section should not be removed simply because of the vandalism it causes. --Dreaded Walrus t c 07:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Fine that section stays but I hope to see indefinite semi-protection in the near future, because don't you think it is a burden to put up with all those annoying attacks by these extremists against the company for reasons that it committed misdeeds in the past. Besides those otakus got what they wanted, their "crusade" is over, all that is left now is fear and prejudice with the company. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Worlder (talk • contribs) 22:11, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, that is their problem, so we just have to be vigilant for vandalism.A 00:25, 3 October 2007 (UTC)--
 * Indefinite semi-protection is very, very rare, and for good reason. Please remember to try to stay civil with regards to other editors, even vandals. --Dreaded Walrus t c 23:29, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I just took this out: Let the following facts be submitted to the candid world of One Piece fans.

They have sidestepped around death by throwing scenes around clumsily and paying little or no attention to continuity. They have changed religious symbols that would have no meaning to the audience at large and wasted mney on paint edits. They have Made crappy writing and attempts to make stupid puns. They have given Don Krieg Poison suction cups that make no sense in their delivery. They have given Monkey D. Luffy an annoying voice, as was done to Sanji and Usopp. Thay have given Luffty Dumbass jokes. They have replaced the BGM and Opening with a stupid rap. They have onitted nearly 40 episodes in order to get to the chase of something. They have committed Racist edits. They hae put music in that has no point to the storyline. They have replaced Onigiri with cookies and ruined the oint of the salt/sugar edit. They have made Naval marines carry toy guns. They have blacked out writing on covers no one will read. They have removed shout and confusion marks from the charachters. They have replaced technique names and confused them to hardcore fans. I could go on and on about this.

I see POV and language issues. At least He's specific. Tommy 11111 (talk) 01:15, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Worlder,just because we want anime,and not knock offs,doesn't give you the right to call us otakus.That is a personal assault. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.194.7.41 (talk) 23:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly with Tommy; it wasn't just One Piece they ruined in this way. Put in the controversy section, if only as a means to show the world how much 4Kids are destroying anime. Hikari Tajiri (talk) 18:45, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

"These donuts are great! Jelly-filled are my favorite! Nothing beats a jelly-filled donut!" KF87827 —Preceding undated comment added 20:54, 18 March 2010 (UTC).

Not to mention the extremely stupid "invisible guns" on Yu-Gi-Oh. It's like "Oh no! The Guard is pointing at me! Whatever shall I do?". I understand the idea of not having guns in an anime, so as to not influence children, but it's just absurd the way they did it. A guy having his fingers in a "gun" shap isn't at all intimidating. In fact, it gives the situation an absurd quality. Just because most cartoons are for children, doesn't mean we have to throw logic out the window. Makes me glad that there is a possiblity that 4Kids will close. The company did to games what LGN did to games during the begining of the industry. Yankovic270 (talk) 01:39, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

XML
http://www.4kidsentertainment.com/faqs.xml I found this WhisperToMe (talk) 22:40, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Also http://www.4kidsentertainment.com/main.swf WhisperToMe (talk) 08:50, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Vandalism In Article
I think we should be watching this article closely for vandalism. Just right now the 4Kids Entertainment Article was vandalized and that made me having to edit the article. I don't want this article to be locked but we should be watching this article closely. I think this article should be protected now because of too much vandalism.

--Bernard Suen 03:11, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I second that. The last sentence in the first paragraph suggests that 4Kids will be hosting "Homestuck the Anime," which I don't believe has any citations. This seems like a rumor. 71.91.59.27 (talk) 03:23, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

So
Since Saban has accquired 4Kids and sold Yu-Gi-oh to Konami is Saban planning to shut down 4Kids and fully merge it? Matthew Cantrell (talk) 00:16, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * My, Yugioh does have the worst luck of ending up with unpopular companies. You should hear the s**tstorm of hate Konami is getting from gamers this year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.20.13 (talk) 12:06, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

When did they say they bougth 4kids? You two are plain and simple.(talk) 5:57, December 29,2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 22 November 2012
I would like to make a request change on the 4kids page under the section Editing and Localization of Anime. This quote should be included because the part of the Parent Television Council writing about Shaman King being too violent should also include the quote itself.

Livcorner (talk) 17:39, 22 November 2012 (UTC) "On Fox's Shaman King, a fight between two characters ends when one kicks the other in the head and knocks him unconscious. The victor picks up the loser by his hair, and reaches into his chest while the loser screams. The victor then takes out the loser's soul and puts it into his own body, silencing the other. What is this teaching the 6 year-olds in the audience?"

Reference http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/062006/opl_3080719.shtml

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. - Begoon &thinsp; talk  10:27, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Template Inaccuracy/Template Request
I just updated the trading information to that of 4Licensing Corp. However, I had to use a template that, while more accurate than the OTCQB template, is inaccurate because the company is on the Grey Market as of now. Thus, I propose a template, such as OTCGrey for Grey Market securities. Michealin (talk) 16:45, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Template for the Grey Market already exist, it's Grey Market. Powergate92   Talk  18:07, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Amazingly, that's the one thing I didn't think to try because of the space. I, however, tried GreyMarket and OTCGrey, among others. Michealin (talk) 18:19, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Why has Bella Hudson's page been prevented from being created again? --Smartie2thaMaxXx (talk) 21:59, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Blackface picture
Does that really need to be here? It doesn't really have anything to do with 4Kids' itself and all it does is make people think they're racist even thought it was to prevent racism. It doesn't even say in the article that it was to prevent racism. If anything I think it should go in the editing of anime article.Bryanoftoons (talk) 23:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * But, it was an edit done by 4-Kids to remove potentially offensive material from the program when it was rebroadcast in the United States. I don't think it implies that they are racist, and given the fact that there is controversy over their editing of television programs for content, I think it illustrates the type of edits done very clearly. --Haemo (talk) 00:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

But that's the only time they've ever made an edit like that. It's a a poor example. Not only that, but there's no mention in the article about the edit at all.Bryanoftoons (talk) 15:51, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes there is. The article explains that they remove material which American audiences would find offensive &mdash; I think that's an excellent example of that, since most Americans find blackface very offensive.  Why does it matter if that's the only time they've removed blackface &mdash; the example clearly illustrates (1) the problem 4Kids faces and (2) how they deal with it.  I don't know how it implies 4Kids is racist, even remotely. --Haemo (talk) 23:13, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

All I know is that there are dozens of people I've seen who think 4Kids is racist just by looking at that picture. Could you put something that implies it was to prevent racism in the caption under it?Bryanoftoons (talk) 03:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No, because that would be WP:POV and original research. Leaving the image to speak for itself is the best thing. Currently the image's caption doesn't imply anything, and it is left to the reader to decide. Dreaded Walrus t c 12:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I just added a little note, explaining that blackface is judged racist in the United States. The reader can draw their own conclusions about why 4Kids removed it. --Haemo (talk) 22:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep! Perfect wording. It's my inability to word things as well as that which prevents me from editing articles. ;) Dreaded Walrus t c 01:12, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

They should have left it unedited. I've been over this discussion many times before. Its much more racist to change the color of the skin than leaving it to "prevent" racism. Gune (talk) 00:41, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, lots of people would disagree with you on that one, which is probably why they changed it. However, we've decided to simply say "they changed it" without going into specifics of why.  If anyone can't see why blackface is offensive to an American audience, this isn't the place to do so. --Haemo (talk) 08:15, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually it was better how it was worded. People could have came to either conclusion by how it is. How you worded it now makes everybody think that 4Kids edited it to prevent racism. Gune (talk) 02:37, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * No, people can draw their own conclusions about why it was made. It makes perfect sense to state the social connotations of blackface in an article which discusses editing for social reasons.  Like the fact that it's racist, and offends people. Since we don't have a reliable source for that, we can't just say it &mdash; but we can explain what happened, and what the social connotations of what was removed entailed. --Haemo (talk) 03:51, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

It should say "blackface can be viewed as racially offensive in the United States" or "this picture can be considered racially offensive in the United States" Instead you list it as "This picture IS racist." Gune (talk) 05:06, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No. It says "blackface is viewed as racially offensive in the United States".  You may not like it but blackface is viewed as racially offensive.  Our own article on the fact should convince you of this. --Haemo (talk) 06:58, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually its the picture itself. Not the actual blackface. Not everybody considers it racist but your wording makes the picture sound like it is. Gune (talk) 07:08, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I'm not sure what you're asking to change here. I appear to have misunderstood your objection to the caption. --Haemo (talk) 07:44, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

The actual picture. Not everybody will consider it a blackface or that its racist at all. It needs to be reworded so that somebody can come to their own conclusion. If somebody reads that captain the way it is right now they will think that it was purposely made as a blackface and that it was originally made to be racist without coming to their own conclusion. Gune (talk) 07:54, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * (1) It's clearly blackface. (2) We don't say the image is racist.  It was purposely made as blackface in the Japanese version of the show because they have a long tradition of using blackface in a cultural context which is different than America.  We aren't telling anyone that it's racist &mdash; where just telling people that it can be considered racist in the United States.  All of these statements are completely accurate. --Haemo (talk) 05:58, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Give evidence that it is. Can you also provide evidence that they have a tradition of using blackface? Gune (talk) 08:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Mr. Popo from Dragonball Z Worlder (talk) 20:23, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Read our own article on the subject. There's two paragraphs about it. --Haemo (talk) 00:11, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Mr. Popo was actually completely black. As in the color black. Gune (talk) 20:25, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * People in blackface also painted their skin black. --Haemo (talk) 00:11, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Which is a completely moot point considering the edited character is an actual black character. Mr Popo is nothing like him. Gune (talk) 06:16, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not even sure what you're arguing &mdash; that blackface isn't racist? That the image isn't of blackface? That Japan doesn't use blackface? Who knows, but they're all wrong. --Haemo (talk) 07:53, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Second one. You don't have proof that it is. Gune (talk) 09:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Blackface is an easily identifiable style. Anyone can recognize it.  Use common sense or read any of the massive literature on the subject.  You're being disruptive simply to make a point and it's wasting everyone's time. --Haemo (talk) 05:34, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually its already been stated that in order for it to be Blackface it must be the actual color black. Obviously it isn't which means you are the one who is making it up. Gune (talk) 20:12, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's simply not true. It's meant to imitate the skin color of black people which can range from brown to coal black.  In fact, Coal Black and the Sebben Dwarves is a famous example of this kind of racist imagery in film. --Haemo (talk) 20:55, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Read this quote from Bob Clampett: "In 1942, during the height of anti-Japanese sentiment during World War II, I was approached in Hollywood by the cast of an all-black musical off-broadway production called Jump For Joy while they were doing some special performances in Los Angeles. They asked me why there weren't any Warner's cartoons with black characters and I didn't have any good answer for that question. So we sat down together and came up with a parody of Disney's "Snow White" and "Coal Black" was the result. They did all the voices for that cartoon, even though Mel Blanc's contract with Warners gave him sole voice credit for all Warners cartoons by then. There was nothing racist or disrespectful toward blacks intended in that film at all, nor in Tin Pan Alley Cats which is just a parody of jazz piano great Fats Waller, who was always hamming into the camera during his musical films. Everybody, including blacks had a good time when these cartoons first came out. All the controversy about these two cartoons has developed in later years merely because of changing attitudes toward black civil rights that have happened since then."


 * Where's the racism? I think you're taking something blown out of proportion here. 128.187.97.18 (talk) 18:54, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

So you're saying its actually racist of them to use a black person in an anime? Gune (talk) 21:24, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Black people don't actually look like blackface, as you've probably noticed. There have been many black characters in anime who look like actual black people and not racist cultural stereotypes. --Haemo (talk) 22:23, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

That is your own opinion that it is. I've asked multiple people including black people and they have all said the edit is more racist than the original. Gune (talk) 23:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * No, that's not my opinion &mdash; that's practically the definition of blackface. It's a racial sterotype which is used to demean and make fun of black people.  I'm not going to get into an argument about whether or not it's racist to remove it, but suffice to say that your argument that removing blackface from films is equivalent to removing black people is totally vacuous.  --Haemo (talk) 23:48, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually I wasn't even arguing that before. I don't even know how we got on this subject.I was arguing the fact that the sentence itself should be reworded. Gune (talk) 03:40, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * How? --Haemo (talk) 06:55, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I already said in this discussion earlier. Gune (talk) 17:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No, you made a general statement that we discussed for a while with little profit. Do you have a precise revision suggestion? --Haemo (talk) 22:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think Gune may have the notion that blackface is a form of representation (as in tokenism) for black people. An offensive form of representation, but representation nonetheless. So by removing blackface, one has removed an instance where blacks were shown in anime; thus, the removal of a black character, even if it is a blackface character, is racist because it denies a representation of blacks in this particular form of animation, or at least, in this show. Worlder (talk) 05:19, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Blackface is only racist in America.That is not blackface.He has brown,not black,skin.He doesn't have googly eyes.His lips aren't pink.Blackface is used in Japan as a form of respect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.194.7.41 (talk) 23:39, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Tammy Newborn
I'll be watch out for her, the 4Kids fanfag. His/her name's goes by Tammy New born. Pichu0320 (talk) 01:58, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Suspected Liquidation
While its site is still active, I was unable to get confirmation of 4LC's continuation after its 2016 bankruptcy due to a failed email to its information department. Thus, I strongly suspect its liquidation. However, I'd like someone else to research the subject for thoroughness. Omegatiger121 (talk) 17:16, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

4Licensing was recently delisted, which could mean it's bankrupt.87.16.72.135 (talk) 09:13, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

still active
hi, when this article saying "was". Are u sure guys that 4licensing is ended with their company? Because there site is still avaible and i see 2017 copyright!--Maxie1hoi (talk) 19:02, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Can we make a separate article on the infamous 4Kids national anthem
I heard that when they did the national anthem on 4Kids, it cause a massive outrage MechMaster Katzenstein (talk) 21:03, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

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Edit
Does anyone know, which computer programs they used to edit scene's and graphics? Winx, Sonic X e.g. --Maxie1hoi (talk) 12:30, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Name Change Proposal: 4Kids Entertainment
I propose we change the name of the article back to 4Kids Entertainment, that's the more well-known name for the company.


 * I think that, now with the company broken and closed, this proposal is totally valid and have my support.. --Demonaire Rai (talk) 21:53, 3 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I just placed a real move request to move the page back to the original name, in case you’re still interested. ColorTheoryRGB  C M Y K  04:38, 19 April 2021 (UTC)