Talk:4th Gorkha Rifles

Victoria Cross
The infobox in this article states that members from the 4th Gurkhas have received the VC three times. I do not believe that this is correct. As far as I can tell it should only be one - Captain William Walker. Please see List of Gurkha Recipients of the Victoria Cross. Does anyone disagree with this? If not I will change the number to one. AustralianRupert (talk) 14:32, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I have changed it now - I guess I didn't wait long. If anyone disagrees, please let me know and we can discuss. Parker 2005, pp. 391-393 details all Gurkha VCs and only lists one for the 4th Gurkhas, so I'm pretty confident that it is correct. AustralianRupert (talk) 14:38, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * A simple Google search reveals this. Rifleman Kulbir Thapa, the first Gurkha won his VC during the battle of Loos on 25th Sept 1915 while the second VC was won by Rifleman Karanbahadur Rana in Palestine on 10th April 1918. I am adding the names now. It would have been more correct to let the figure in the article stand while you expressed your doubt here. Regiments don't normally claim what they haven't been awarded especially individual gallantry awards. AshLin (talk) 01:42, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Doesn't say much about Parker's research if in a book about the Gorkhas, he omits the highest gallantry awards won by the common soldiers, puportedly about whom the book is. Thanks for tagging 4GR, it gave me a nice opportunity to wikiedit this regiment article. AshLin (talk) 02:51, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems Parker fell for that old chestnut, the famous clerical error when the 3rd/4th were mistakenly written the 4th/3rd which was not in existence at that point of time.
 * http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/3rd_Queen_Alexandras_Own_Gurkha_Rifles/id/1901165
 * http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyunits/gurkha/4thgurkhas.htm
 * Strange that no 3rd or 4th Gorkha officer has pointed out this discrepancy to date. AshLin (talk) 03:06, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Reply
Hi, mate. Thanks for you input, however, I have to disagree with your reasoning for a number of reasons.

Firstly, the two websites listed above by yourself both state that the second and third VCs were received by men of the 3rd Gurkhas, not the 4th. The wikipedia entry for 3rd Gurkha Rifles both claims Kulbir Thapa and Karanbahadur Rana as belonging to them, not 4th Gurkhas. I understand this point about the clerical error - that is also listed on the 3rd Gurkhas article - but seems to be indicating that whilst it was an error, it was one that became official so that in fact there was a 4th/3rd and not a 3rd/4th. Neither of the two references provided seem to contradict Parker as you claim. Quoting from the British Empire page you cited -"A third battalion was not raised at this time due to a clerical error. What should have been written as 3/4th was wrongly written as 4/3rd. so the 3rd Gurkhas were given a battalion more than they should have done while the 4th went without." Then later under WWI it states that "two VCs were won by the Third" (as in Regiment, not battalion).

Secondly, the British Army website - agrees with Parker that both of these men were 3rd Gurkhas, not 4th Gurkhas. It also provides the dates of the London Gazette citations. 15 November 1915 for Kulbir Thapa and 21 June 1918 for Karanbahadur Rana.

Thirdly, I have checked these citations in the London Gazette (included below for you to check yourself) and it definately confirms that Kulbir Thapa was 3rd Gurkhas, not 4th Gurkhas. Kulbir Thapa was 2nd Battalion, 3rd Gurkhas - see London Gazette citation -. Karanbahadur Rana - see London Gazette citation -. Whilst the London Gazette does not specify Karanbahadur’s unit, I believe that he was also 2nd Battalion, 3rd Gurkhas. That is what is included on his Wikipedia entry, and at Find a grave.

As such Kulbir Thapa definately was not 4th Gurkhas and I am fairly confident that neither was Karanbahadur. It does not seem to me that Parker made the error that you claim.

I am not going to get into an edit war over this, so I will leave to you to make up your own mind. If you still believe 4th Gurkhas have three VCs, I will not change it. However, I do not believe that this is correct based on the evidence provided. AustralianRupert (talk) 00:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Since they are Indian Army regiments and I'm part it too, I'll try to access their regimental histories or write to the Colonel of the Gorkha Brigade and ask him. I used to know the battalion commanders of these paltons some time ago but now they have changed. I understand your point. A lot of references still stand to that effect.


 * So let me say, I think the matter lies unresolved and that I'll look it up from my resources and let you know. This sort of thing should be well-documented.


 * BTW keep up the good work on the Indian Army VC articles. I hope they become GA and FA soon and part of the featured topic on VCs.

AshLin (talk) 02:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * This appears to have been resolved now. For those who are interested, please see Talk:List of Gurkha Recipients of the Victoria Cross. It has been decided that the two VCs in question are most likely 3rd Gurkhas, not 4th, so they have been removed from this page and added to 3rd Gurkhas. The possibilty remains that this is wrong, although the weight of sources seems to indicate that it is not. Of course, if other sources arise which contradict Parker and the London Gazette, I will be happy to discuss further. Cheers. — AustralianRupert (talk) 22:27, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

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Unencyclopaedic fluff
Just to alert editors concerned with the Fourth Gorkha Rifles that there is a lot of unencyclopedic fluff which has no place in a proper encyclopedia and would be shortly be cut out. Informing in advance in good faith should someone wish to discuss about it. AshLin (talk) 13:05, 15 August 2018 (UTC)