Talk:7 July 2005 London bombings/Archive 2

Introduction
Please stop adding the "introduction" section. That is what the introparagraph is for. To introduce the topic. Páll 7 July 2005 11:39 (UTC)


 * The header is there to lower the number of edit conflicts. Small rules can be adjusted for the situation.  &mdash; 12.207.151.144 7 July 2005 11:42 (UTC)


 * I agree. Evercat 7 July 2005 11:47 (UTC)


 * Thirded. Adding a note to the page. -- Kizor 7 July 2005 11:53 (UTC)


 * Fourthed. So why did Mav delete it? What is MoS that he refers to? Fuzheado | Talk 7 July 2005 11:55 (UTC)
 * Manual of style, or, How Things Are Done Around Here-- Kizor 7 July 2005 11:58 (UTC)


 * Ah, duh, I knew that. Left a message on his talk page. We should keep that section 0. Fuzheado | Talk 7 July 2005 11:59 (UTC)


 * Mav added a hyperlink that serves the same purpose. Please use that.  &mdash; 12.207.151.144 7 July 2005 12:01 (UTC)

Messed up layout
Many sections were repeated, maybe someone should clean up the layout? --Lemontea 7 July 2005 11:46 (UTC)

Lock
This page can't stay locked, but I suppose we can lock it every time it gets duped, fix it, then unlock... Evercat 7 July 2005 11:47 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't object to that. -- M e r o v i n g i a n  (t) (c) July 7, 2005 11:50 (UTC)

Who's fixing it now? Rich Farmbrough 7 July 2005 11:57 (UTC)


 * I don't know, I've been told off for reverting people's edits, so... Evercat 7 July 2005 12:17 (UTC)

Removed section
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2005_London_transport_explosions&diff=18322817&oldid=18322740

Why was this removed? --Tom Edwards 7 July 2005 12:00 (UTC)
 * To fix page duplication. All the sections removed were already in the article, and had been duplicated as a result of edit conflicts. -- Michael Warren | Talk July 7, 2005 12:05 (UTC)

Charles Clarke Statement And Discussions In The House
The comment on the statement "this wouldn't have happened if we'd have had id cards" is pretty crass. Also are the statements from the opposition and lib dems going to be added?

-True, but nevertheless an exceedingly good point.
 * I predicted Clarke would say that. And it's a very bad point. Madrid had cards. Rd232 7 July 2005 12:31 (UTC)
 * I was joking with my workmates when I said they would immediiately blame a lack of ID cards does Clarke have no shame?--ElvisFromUncyc 7 July 2005 13:04 (UTC)

Hotline number
The hotline numbers quoted on Wikipedia and Wikinews are different
 * wp: HOTLINE NUMBER: 0207 766 6020
 * wn: +44 (0) 20 8358 0101.

are they both correct?


 * Yes - the wikinews one is the london transport police hotline, which has been subsumed by the dedicated Met police hotline number (the one on wikipedia) Proto t c 7 July 2005 13:27 (UTC)


 * How can they possibly be both correct, considering that one of them gets the London code wrong and the other right? -- Smjg 13:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

G8 summit speech
Wasn't that Manmohan Singh there? I never saw anything saying India was going to come. I saw some other people too that didn't seem like they should be there. Interesting... Jimbobsween
 * George W. Bush looks damned awful in a brown suit. --Psyk0 7 July 2005 12:19 (UTC)
 * haha yeah I noticed that. It was good they had something in the news reports to lighten the mood though
 * FYI: Several leaders from non-G8 nations where also invited, and are present at the G8 summit, as is the UN secretary general. --Sherool 7 July 2005 13:06 (UTC)

article structure.
Somebody want to start a discussion subpage on article structure? , sections, etc SimonLyall 7 July 2005 12:20 (UTC)

foreign news / stream sites
do we want those here? the number of links will become extremely large and are often only useful for a smaller group of people, this is the english wiki. if people want to post such links post it on their countries wikis. Boneyard 7 July 2005 12:24 (UTC)

Partial translation of Al Qaeda page
Partial translation of a terrorist statement received from someone on IRC:


 * [14:27]  Thursday 7/7/2005
 * [14:27]  The secret organization group
 * [14:27]  The organization of the Jihad base in Europe
 * [14:27]  Introduction blah
 * [14:27]  It's time for revenge from the Crusader Zionist British government
 * [14:27]  In response of the massacres being committed by Britain in Iraq and Afghanistan
 * [14:27]  The brave Mojahedin did a successful raid in London, and here is Britain burning in fear and terror in north, south, east, and west.
 * [14:27]  We have warned the British government and people over and over.
 * [14:27]  And he we are today fulfilling our promise and doing a blessed military raid in Britain after great effort by the Mojahedin heroes, efforts that took a long time to guarantee the success of the raid.
 * [14:27]  We still warn Denmark, Italy and all the Crusader governments that they'll receive the same punishment if they don't take out their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan, this is the final warning.
 * [14:27]  Blah blah
 * [14:27]  The secret organization group
 * [14:27]  The organization of the Jihad base in Europe

From al-Qaeda in Europe Organisation

Rejoice oh Islamic Community, rejoice oh Arab community as the time of revenge upon the Crusader, Zionist British government has come.

In response to the butchery that the British perpetrated in Iraq and Afghanistan the heroic Mujahideen have carried out a blessed attack in London and it is now Britain that is burning with fear, terror and panic, from North to South and East to West.

And we had warned the British government and the British population repeatedly.

And we held our promise and we carried out a blessed military attack in Britain following arduous efforts from the heroic Mujahideen, who persisted for a long period to guarantee the success of the attack.

And we continue to warn the governments of Denmark, and Italy and all of the Crusader governments that they will suffer the same punishment if they do not withdraw their forces from Iraq and Afghanistan and he who warns is excused.

- FrancisTyers 7 July 2005 12:43 (UTC)

It has been confirmed that this is the site where the text can be found: https://www.qal3ati.com/ --Michiel Sikma 7 July 2005 12:45 (UTC)

Page top
The top of the page is much better aesthetically now. Thanks to whoever worked that out. Evercat 7 July 2005 12:30 (UTC)

Link to statement from terrorists
Anyone who can post the site with the statement of the terrorists? Spiegel has posted a screenshot so far...

It was above, but I'll repost it for clarity https://www.qal3ati.com/, you might want to check the [http://web.archive.org/web/20040715152647/www.qal3ati.com/vb/ version archived on archive.org as well. I've taken several souvenir shots of the login page. I think about a hundred people are hitting there each second. -- Natalinasmpf 7 July 2005 13:15 (UTC)

redirects
fix the double redirects when moving this around, you are breaking the link from the Main page! dab (&#5839;) 7 July 2005 12:49 (UTC)

Why was this moved from 7 July 2005 London bombing to 2005 London bombing? The former is the format used by similar articles; we don't know that there wont be abother bombing this year. Andy Mabbett

Shouldn't it be "bombings" rather than "bombing"? Ben Arnold 7 July 2005 12:55 (UTC)


 * imho, yes. I'll move it there and try and protect it against further moves. Thryduulf 7 July 2005 12:57 (UTC)


 * One boming, several bombs. If it happened again next week, there would have been two bombings. Andy Mabbett 7 July 2005 13:09 (UTC)

Condolences
I am so sorry to hear about this terrible and barbaric act of terrorism. My thoughts are with the British people. --mav 7 July 2005 13:11 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Mine too. My thoughts with those who have suffered in this nightmare -- Grace Note

My thoughts are also with the many victims of this terrible crime. I hope that the British people will know how to deal with those rotten islamist-fascist terrorists. -- Andrei Einar

Protected?!
Who the hell just protected the page? People are trying to update! --Nidonocu 7 July 2005 13:17 (UTC)


 * Me. Page was duped. Evercat 7 July 2005 13:18 (UTC)
 * Duped? --Nidonocu 7 July 2005 13:19 (UTC)


 * See the page version prior to my last revert. Evercat 7 July 2005 13:20 (UTC)


 * Because too many people were editing at once and this created edit conflicts, the result is that the whole article was repeated and some section structure were damaged. --Lemontea 7 July 2005 13:22 (UTC)


 * Ah, I see. If I get an edit conflict, I hit back, copy out the text I just added and rehit 'edit' to paste in and quickly save so not to conflict. --Nidonocu 7 July 2005 13:27 (UTC)

Repeated sections
Was going to edit it but page got protected. Please fix. Alex.tan July 7, 2005 13:18 (UTC)

Reverts
Sorry all, but when it's duped I think the fastest way to fix it is to revert and get everyone to add all their edits again. Please try not to edit the page while it's in a borked state. Evercat 7 July 2005 13:20 (UTC)

Glasgow Subway
Given the info about NY subway, etc. does anyone have any info about the glasgow one? --ElvisFromUncyc 7 July 2005 13:37 (UTC)

Need cleanup
Bah. It's as clean as it's likely to be for a while...

Hotline - move?
Any objections to me moving the hotline numbers down to the contacts section? Evercat 7 July 2005 13:52 (UTC)

BST
'''DUE TO TECHNICAL PROBLEMS, THIS PAGE IS OCCASIONALLY HAVING SECTIONS DUPLICATED. IN THIS CASE, IT MAY BE TEMPORARILY PROTECTED AND REVERTED TO THE LAST SANE VERSION. BEWARE.'''

I have added Talk:2005 London bombing/MissingInfo for people to list bits that have been lost in the course of ongoing edits so they can be added back later if required. SimonLyall 7 July 2005 12:29 (UTC)

FYI
Witness repots on RTE Radio 1 include a woman who seen a Woman on an UNderground train get decapitated, and a Traffic Warden who had a lump of flesh land on him, by the bus. --Irishpunktom\talk July 7, 2005 14:02 (UTC)

Early comments
Leaving all things aside, I need to say this is shocking, just shocking. Also, I and my family feel eerily de-sensitised to the idea of a terrorist-like act. Harro5 July 7, 2005 09:59 (UTC)

If you're having issues accessing BBC website, try visiting http://newswww1.thny.bbc.co.uk/ Adders 7 July 2005 10:47 (UTC)

Fox news reported at 3AM here (GMT-8) that 90 casualties have been reported. - Serialized

could we please not fall for exageration? The city of london is NOT being evacuated. corrected the text Adidas 7 July 2005 10:03 (UTC)


 * Good job to everybody who worked on this article and... I'll let rumours slide ;) -- M e r o v i n g i a n  (t) (c) July 7, 2005 10:05 (UTC)

is this helpful??

I'm safe. Its chaos over here and I'm sh***ing myself. The bombs are really close, oxford street has been closed down and there are still bombs planted everywhere waiting to go off. If ed and di can get out of    the central london bit, tell them to just stay away and away from any form of transport. The hospital is chaos and we have been put on high alert. Its nuts, but we are safe, apart from the fact I have just s**t myself, and I serioulsy mean it. We aren't going to be able to get home tongith because we've been told there are bombs everywhere. I'm scared, but I'm sure it will all be okay.

Source unknown...

Metropolitan Line
It seems that the blasts happened inside the tunnels of the Metropolitan Line (between the stations of Liverpool Street and Aldgate East). This would create a fireball that would spread through stations. --Pinnecco 7 July 2005 10:04 (UTC)

There's certainly no evidence of a "fireball", I don't think the explosions were large enough to cause that sort of thing. There's been reports from eye witnesses on BBC News of explosions in the carridge next to theirs and large quantities of smoke which cleared in about 10 minutes. When walking down the tracks the eye witnesses reported seeing heavy damage to the train with the metal all bent outwards, but thankfully no fire. Same story with the bus (which we can probably assume was the same explosive). That could've been a lot worse, think of the bus bombings in Israel.

Advance warning
According to Israeli radio, a man arrived at the Scotland Yard this morning and gave a detailed description of the attacks planned. The alert was forwarded to embassies, and the Israeli one was locked down prior to the explosions.

Contact Number??
Anyone finds one, please add it. Rich Farmbrough 7 July 2005 10:04 (UTC)


 * 9-9-9 -- M e r o v i n g i a n  (t) (c) July 7, 2005 10:07 (UTC)


 * Police have asked people not to distract the emergency services.--Henrygb 7 July 2005 10:33 (UTC)


 * Indeed, usually a number is issued in major incidents, this is what I meant. Rich Farmbrough 7 July 2005 10:42 (UTC)


 * As far as I know one hasn't been issued yet. The BBC and ITV news stations are asking people to contact them for reports if they're involved in the incident, but that's it. Emergency services should only be contacted 'if your life is in danger'. --Psyk0 7 July 2005 10:45 (UTC)
 * One has not been issued yet. Radio Five Live said at about 1145 that one was expected in about 30 minutes. -- Arwel 7 July 2005 11:30 (UTC)
 * The hotline number listed here is different than the one wikinews and some external websites are listing (+44 (0) 20 8358 0101). Can someone check? Janet13

Stock Exchange
The London Stock Exchange in London have not been evacuated (at least, so far). I work there and all my colleagues are there. --Pinnecco 7 July 2005 10:06 (UTC)

Good Sources
BBC Radio 4, Radio 5 live and BBC News 24 are giving almost continuous coverage. --KharBevNor 7 July 2005 10:10 (UTC)
 * BBC 1 is simulcasting News 24 coverage too. Tjwood 7 July 2005 10:45 (UTC)

Oh Gnoes
Sorry. Just had to say that. -- Kizor 7 July 2005 10:12 (UTC)
 * I second that, and it's 2:13 AM here. -- M e r o v i n g i a n  (t) (c) July 7, 2005 10:13 (UTC)
 * Thirded. --Psyk0 7 July 2005 10:19 (UTC)

the pix
is the pix of the person stuck underground real? the source indicates it might be fake. not funny if it is Adidas 7 July 2005 10:16 (UTC)
 * Seems genuine --KharBevNor 7 July 2005 10:18 (UTC)
 * probably is - sky news is broadcasting it now. there is a video on the french tv channel lci.fr which looks similar.

Spain.
Any confimation of this? Rich Farmbrough 7 July 2005 10:14 (UTC)

spain info seems fake Adidas 7 July 2005 10:15 (UTC)


 * I suspect the intent is to draw parallels with the Madrid attack, rather than a direct report - another version of the mention was overwritten in the editing scrum. -- Michael Warren | Talk July 7, 2005 10:17 (UTC)


 * Reuters is of course down, but other news sources are saying nothing of the sort. Probably should be considered a badly formatted parallel to the attack, already removed. -- Kizor 7 July 2005 10:20 (UTC)

I removed the Spain comment as it was stated, because that information is unconfirmed. User:Serialized

Conspiracy theory?
It all seems a bit too neat, y'know? Tuesday: Paris loses the olympic bid, London win. Paris are understandably angry. Prime Minister is in Scotland. Wednesday: London transport network struck with explosions. Entire city is in disarray.

Coincidence? --Psyk0 7 July 2005 10:18 (UTC)


 * Slow down, cowboy. I don't know, but I'd say that somebody ain't happy about the London bid win.  -- M e r o v i n g i a n  (t) (c) July 7, 2005 10:20 (UTC)


 * Please don't speculate. It's unhelpful. It also makes you look like a goose. It's like those ridiculous conspiracy theories over Dianna. After all, we all know that Princess Di didn't actually die. She was abducted by aliens I tell you! - Ta bu shi da yu 7 July 2005 10:21 (UTC)
 * I thought it was Prince Philip, the CIA, the FBI, the AA, the NHS, the Girl Scouts and the Japanese whaling beareau what did it? --KharBevNor 7 July 2005 10:25 (UTC)

Are you saying you think France orchestrated the bombings?!?!

Please stop blaming France of all (They're eaven guilty creating Godzilla) THERE'S NO WAY THAT FACT CAN BE RELATED TO OLYMPIC COMITEE DESITION... You canot plan a terrorist attack so perfect in less than 24 hours Qsebas 7 July 2005 13:08 (UTC)

Tony Blair to make a statement on Midday
Can someone make notes of relevant comments and add them to the article please? - Ta bu shi da yu 7 July 2005 10:18 (UTC)

Terrorist attack?
Please hold off on this comment. It might be, but we just don't know for sure as yet. - Ta bu shi da yu 7 July 2005 10:19 (UTC)


 * There seems to be way too much evidence toward an attack. -- M e r o v i n g i a n  (t) (c) July 7, 2005 10:21 (UTC)
 * Don't disagree... it seems that way. However, Wikipedia does not run on speculation. That would be original research. I realise your concern, let's just cool it here. We must give an objective article that conforms to our principles. - Ta bu shi da yu 7 July 2005 10:26 (UTC)
 * Right, I thought we were simply stating what the pundits are suggesting. -- M e r o v i n g i a n  (t) (c) July 7, 2005 10:48 (UTC)
 * I think it's pretty obvious and accepted that it is now. the wub  "?/!"  7 July 2005 10:24 (UTC)
 * Provide a source. - Ta bu shi da yu 7 July 2005 10:26 (UTC)


 * THEY BLEW BLOODY BUSES TO BITS! Sorry, couldn't resist. I've added a note that there have been no official announcements yet. --Kizor 7 July 2005 10:27 (UTC)
 * I can provide one to the contrary: ITV News just said that "it is too early to confirm whether the event is linked to terrorism." --Psyk0 7 July 2005 10:29 (UTC)
 * As a matter of fact I can now provide a source for the terrorist cause- BBC TV news, 'Arab reporters have stated that the event is almost certainly linked to Al Quaieda.' --Psyk0 7 July 2005 10:33 (UTC)

Sources to ignore
Channel Seven News, Australia. Making out speculation as fact. - Ta bu shi da yu 7 July 2005 10:23 (UTC)

Timeline.
Would a timeline be useful? Rich Farmbrough 7 July 2005 10:24 (UTC)
 * Don't we have one? - Ta bu shi da yu 7 July 2005 10:27 (UTC)
 * We could use a better one. The BBC one is okay. Also we should probably fix the time format.

Pictures?
Why no pictures, Pigsonthewing? -- M e r o v i n g i a n (t) (c) July 7, 2005 10:25 (UTC)


 * I see, nevermind. -- M e r o v i n g i a n  (t) (c) July 7, 2005 10:29 (UTC)

Fatalities
Where did the 20 fatalities figure come from? Glad it's only 2! Rich Farmbrough 7 July 2005 10:25 (UTC)
 * BBC and ITV news have both stated 90 casualties and 20 deaths. --Psyk0 7 July 2005 10:31 (UTC)

BE SAFE UK Wikipedians
I'm sure I speak for all Wikipedians - but keep safe, UK and London Wikipedians. You're in our thoughts today. Fuzheado | Talk 7 July 2005 10:26 (UTC)
 * Second this comment. Our thoughts are with you. Even tonight, here in Australia. - Ta bu shi da yu 7 July 2005 10:27 (UTC)
 * We lived with decades of the IRA were not fazed. --ElvisFromUncyc 7 July 2005 11:24 (UTC)
 * All the more reason to take caution. Can't get too complacentCnwb 7 July 2005 11:33 (UTC)
 * Speak for yourself. --Psyk0 7 July 2005 11:34 (UTC)
 * I'd personally say it takes alot to phaze the British public these days, we have planned for this and we are dealing with it. ;) --Nidonocu 7 July 2005 11:39 (UTC)
 * I'll go with that. It's not good but it's a few explosions and some sad losses of life.  It doesn't compare to 911 and London has been through the Blitz.  I'm at my desk, work as usual.  Went through Kings X at about 9.30 on the Thameslink and most people at that stage were worried about tardiness.  Your thoughts are appreciated but we'll pick ourselves up damn quick.  Stiff upper lip and all that!
 * I am speaking for myself and an office full of people. --ElvisFromUncyc 7 July 2005 11:44 (UTC)
 * elvis I find your message very offensive - to the contrary people in my office are very shocked and saddened by this horrible event. That you don't seem to care about anything but the tardiness of your train reflects tragically on british society Adidas 7 July 2005 13:16 (UTC)
 * Er what train, I drove to work today and I'll drive home, I have no plans on using a train until maybe christmas, maybe......... I think you may be mistaking me for someone else...... Also shocked and saddened != fazed --ElvisFromUncyc 7 July 2005 13:30 (UTC)
 * Sorry elvis, I was referring to the comment above yours - i guess wikipedia layout sometimes isn't clear enough Adidas 7 July 2005 13:51 (UTC)

Stock prices
Does somebody want to either provide a source for, or remove the stock prices link?
 * I saw it on BBC.co.uk, before it jammed. -- Kizor 7 July 2005 10:29 (UTC)
 * I've seen it on numerous news websites- Google News provides many sources. --Psyk0 7 July 2005 10:30 (UTC)
 * I can't update the page for some reason to add a source. --Andypoo 7 July 2005 10:32 (UTC)

From BBC (Henrygb 7 July 2005 10:39 (UTC)): THE MARKETS 11:36 UK FTSE 100     5063.0    -166.60 Dax         4477.2    -138.32 Cac 40      4135.1    -144.90 Dow Jones  10270.7    -101.12 Nasdaq      2068.7    -10.10 S&P 500     1194.9    -10.05 BBCGlobal30 5334.5    -11.80

For how long?
At what point will we know how long the tube closure is going to last? I'm meant to be travelling to Colchester on Saturday, and my route includes a tube change. What's the likelihood that I'm going to have to replan my route? -- Smjg 7 July 2005 10:30 (UTC)

I'm not sure getting you to Colchester's a priority for the London Underground. Try calling National Rail Enquiries this evening once more is knows; they may be able to supply you with a route around London. Proto t c 7 July 2005 10:42 (UTC)

Depends. I assume they'll resume services as soon as they can - the show must go on and everything - but the damaged subway trains are not only out of the people, but must have caused a great deal of debris and likely damage to the rails and the like. As nobody wants a tube accident right after that they should be really really careful about checking that. This is just off the top of my head. --Kizor 7 July 2005 10:44 (UTC)


 * Jesus Christ, the attack just happened. Who knows/cares if you'll be delayed?  Descendall 7 July 2005 10:43 (UTC)


 * As much as it maybe effecting you and others, please do not criticize other users, they could quite possibly have family that were involved, and their travel plans are important to them. Thanks.   <> Who ? &iquest; ?  7 July 2005 12:01 (UTC)

Aldgate
According to BBC it's Aldgate East station, not Aldgat. That makes "all other stations" to be on the Hammersmith and City line, not the Circle Line. -- user:miguel


 * Umm... I saw BBC footage of the Tube-station entrance, and it was definitely Aldgate

Watch casualty figures
BBC Radio 4 just reported six busloads of wounded being taken into the hospital under police escort. That's way more than 90 if they were anywhere near full. --KharBevNor 7 July 2005 10:31 (UTC)
 * Consider that people would probably be lying down on said buses. --Psyk0 7 July 2005 10:39 (UTC)
 * They also mentioned a bus on 5 Live earlier that had less than a dozen people arriving at hospital. the wub  "?/!"  7 July 2005 10:41 (UTC)

Amount of Explosions?
Everything on the page is saying 6, although it also shows 6 underground and 3 on buses. -- Apsmif101 -- -  29 July, 2024
 * I'm hearing only one bus explosion confirmed. --KharBevNor 7 July 2005 10:41 (UTC)

6 Underground (confirmed), 1 Bus (confirmed) -- User:markit
 * It seems the latest is 4 explosions, the idea of more explosions was created by casualties coming out of more than one station.

Just heard on TV that the Home Secretary is saying at least 6 explosions. TomH 7 July 2005 12:35 (UTC) 7 July 2005 12:30 UTC

Stop duplicating the article
The edit conflict is shredding this puppy. Please be patient people! --KharBevNor 7 July 2005 10:34 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about this, but editing single sections instead of the whole page at once could help avoid edit conflicts. --Kizor 7 July 2005 10:39 (UTC)

Al Qaeda
Yes, the BBC did report that they had heard from Arab sources that this could be the work of Al Qaeda - though they're arguably jumping the gun a bit. Evercat 7 July 2005 10:38 (UTC)
 * ABC TV in Australia just reported it too. Cnwb 7 July 2005 11:20 (UTC)
 * N24 TV in Germany reported it as well. Jamyskis Whisper, Contribs 7 July 2005 12:19 (UTC)

Wikinews
Maybe people should go and help updating wikinews, rather than wikipedia ... Proto t c 7 July 2005 10:40 (UTC)


 * Well I'm uneable to access Wikinews, the server seems to be down. Most likely could not cope with the sudden spike in trafic. --Sherool 7 July 2005 11:24 (UTC)

Why shouldn't this article be given live status instead of current? DarthVader 7 July 2005 11:42 (UTC)