Talk:7th Heaven (TV series)

Glenoak
I want you to know it is one word, not two words. It is Glenoak. Look at the show, the hospital sign, the newspaper name, everything else there is no space and oak is not upper case. DO NOT CHANGE THIS UNLESS YOU CAN PROVE IT AND YOU CAN'T. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:804:0:3AA8:4C98:90AD:1F84:2E6A (talk) 10:16, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Family program
I have to say, this makes no sense to me: "... has been renewed for its 10th (2005 - 2006) season, making it the longest-running family program in television history." What does "family program" mean here? A program which is centred on a single family? Because then you would (obviously) have The Simpsons with a longer run. Or a program that is watched by "all the family"? Because the Aussie soap Home and Away qualifies on that score. Or is it an American usage I'm not aware of? RMoloney 01:01, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I would think it means familily show from a conservative/Christian point-of-view ie Touched by an Angel...basically the kind of program I consider to be god awful crap ! Dowew 00:33, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I think the term "family program" means that it is a program that the whole family can watch, and The Simpsons does not fit into that category. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I hate The Simpsons or anything. Va_girl2468

You guys are all sort of right, but I still think the term "family program" isn't the right one here. It should say "the longest running family drama", because that's what its network (the WB) promoted it as- The Waltons and Little House on the Prarie are considered to be in the same category. It still is a stupid comment altogether- it's a long running show, yes, but creating such a small category of tv shows so that you can be number one is a bit sad when it comes to advertising- perhaps it should be re-worded and the idea that the WB promoted it as such be added in front. Any other thoughts? Emily 21:28, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

The term family programing means that it is something that the whole family can watch it. people of all ages something many shows you cant do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.97.161.41 (talk) 14:05, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I reworded and added links to article explaining family friendliness. I actually misunderstood at first, erroneously thinking, "there is no way there have been no other dramas about families that lasted 11 years." If i misunderstood, I think it likely that many others will too. That is the rationale for this minor change.

An aside, i think you would have some trouble finding an authoritative, reliable source saying that no TV drama which lasted longer is family friendly. Who defines something as family friendly? Coronation Street might be a candidate. Re The Simpsons not being family friendly? I would suggest that very few families would object to it. Japanscot (talk) 03:22, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

TH43 undid my edit as explained above without giving any reasons or explanations at all. Please explain your edits, especially those undoing work whose rationale has been explained by other editors. Japanscot (talk) 18:03, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Family Program Terminology - USA
The term "family program" in the USA is given to a show that has content that is appropriate for all family members to watch, regardless of their age. These shows would typically have little or no violence, simulated sex or sex inuendo, nudity, or profanity. They typically have story lines that have a moral to their story so as to reinforce positive wholesome values.

I truly feel sorry for anyone in any country who would opine that these types of shows are as one has said god-awful. Would that the entire world was filled with people who practice and respect these moral values.


 * "appropriate for all family members" according to autocratic "moral clarity" vanguards. (Personally, if the world were filled with these closet psychos, the Camdens, just shy of drinking the kool-aid, I couldn't move fast enough towards the sweet release of death.  Watch some Aeon Flux instead and get some perspective!) 71.162.255.58 05:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Duration
"The series lasted from 1996-2006." By my calender it's only Dec 05, is there a crystal ball involved? Avalon 05:45, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

The network announced that the show would have its final season in 2006 earlier in 2005.67.142.130.25 23:03, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

The series actually lasted from 1996-2007 because after the season 10 finale they renewed it for a 11th season.

Record length?

 * In its 10th season it set the record for being the longest running family show in television history.

Oh, really?

From Bonanza: "It aired on NBC from 1959-09-12 through 1973-01-16."

This little "record" appears to be non-factual. Can we take it out, please, or qualify just exactly what is meant? Perhaps Bonanza was not a family series since there was no mother? Jdavidb (talk &bull; contribs) 20:18, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I see this has been discussed with no resolution and no substantiation. I have made the change.  Even if you define "family program" quite narrowly, Bonanza still fits it.  I'm confident I can think of more if I try hard enough.  I've been noticing conflicting claims of "longest running series" or "longest running series of X type" for years, since long before Wikipedia.  I'd like us to not just repeat them the way other media sources do.
 * For those of you who like the "conservative/Christian" definition of family series, I wish you'd at least check out some of the good series of old. Yes, if your horizon extends back only ten years, 7th Heaven is the longest running series on television.  But there were many other such shows in the past, and at least one ran longer. Jdavidb (talk &bull; contribs) 20:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet ran '52-'66 and started on radio before that and My Three Sons ran for 12 years. The Waltons had 221 episodes after 9 years, plus 5 or 6 two hour "movie" episodes after the show ended. 7th heaven has to make 23 episodes this season (as opposed to their normal 22) to make it 221.  The main problem here is that the WB announced it as "...longest running family _DRAMA_" and fans have felt the need to drop the "drama" and tout it as longest running family show ever.


 * Thanks to whoever provided the facts. I'm glad to see that this hasn't been revert warred into the article or anything.  I note that even with the "family DRAMA" qualification, Bonanza is still a longer-running family drama.  Jdavidb (talk &bull; contribs) 18:22, 14 February 2006 (UTC)


 * They meant the longest running family show on The WB. 74.226.71.67 03:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

No, Longest runnig family drama, ad Bonanza was a Western, not family! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.147.131.236 (talk) 21:00, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Denomination
"However, the fact that there is mention of church deacons would indicate Congregational or Baptist; the fact that he is addressed and referred to as "Reverend Camden" rather than "Mr. Camden" would indicate a somewhat extreme evangelical orientation"

I went to a Methodist church growing up which had at least one deacon. It was neither extreme nor evangelical, but the ministers weren't addressed as "Mr. So-and-So" either. For these reasons, I believe that the above quoted section of the article might need to be changed.

A deacon in a Methodist church is quite different from in the Congregationalist/Baptist tradition, where the deacons are equivalent to a Presbyterian session or an Anglican/Episcopal parish council. A Methodist deacon is a lesser order of ordained clergy, comparable to deacons in the Catholic and Anglican/Episcopal tradition; there is likely to be only one or two in a congregation. "Reverend So-and-So" is correct in Protestant Ireland and this has been carried over to the more conservative evangelical Protestant denominations in North America but it is indicative of that sort of tilt in churchmanship. Congregationalist and Presbyterian clergy -- and certainly Anglican/Episcopal and the more middle class Methodists -- would certainly prefer not to be "Reverend So-and-So" but rather "the Reverend Mr/Dr/Mrs/Miss/Ms So-and-So" and would regard the former as incorrect. Masalai 17:54, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've spent my entire life in the Methodist church. Our pastor for 25 years went by Mr. He retired about five years ago, and his replacement goes by "Pastor" or Dr. It is just a personal preference on the part of the pastor. SkittlzAnKomboz 17:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

More "Demonination" Section Problems
The section reads, "If the congregation were Baptist one might expect to hear "Reverend Camden" referred to from time to time as the "pastor"". Are you kidding me? Let's just say, for starters, that the rambling on about what the church might be and then ending with: "Possibly this mixture of denominational indicators..." is ridiculous. Simply say that there is no specific demonination of the church mentioned, and if the word "possibly" MUST go in there (although it probably shouldn't, as this is supposed to be a factual article), then just mention it. Son't go on and on. But back to the referring to Lucy and Eric as "pastors"- they have Associate Pastors (Lucy and STAR Chandler- remember?!), and I think Eric and Lucy actually ARE referred to as "pastors" once or twice. This needs to be changed. Can I change it? Emily 21:37, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Masalai, why did you revert the section back? I misspelled "once" (sorry, I accidentally spelled it oce, I just looked at history). It wasn't illegible! Please explain. Emily 03:57, 18 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Why is it considered necessary to identify Rev. Camden's church with a particular denomination? The fact that it's called "Community Church" is consistent with Non-denominational Christianity. The entire section about "denomination" seems to be emphasized too much in this article. --Metropolitan90 05:15, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Not judgmental
The article states that the true reason for the show's success might have to do with the fact that it is not preachy or judgmental. Not only is that completely unverifiable, but I find that a show about a pastor telling his kids, neighbours, and friends what is right and what is wrong is kind of preachy. - Unmitigated Success

Well, the show is very guarded. In the episode "Vote", people were on oposing sides, but no one mentioned Bush or Kerry... so no one watching would feel that their views were being "judged". Instead of teaching that abortion, for instance, is wrong (or not), the topic never comes up, ever. In this way, no one can be offended. Emily ( Funtrivia Freak ) 19:44, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

When it comes to big controversial issues, such as the presidential election, homosexuality, abortion, I believe that the show never takes sides precisely so no one will take offense, as those are typically the kind of binary debates that would immediately hurt the ratings, because it would divide the audience in two groups, with one of the two groups walking out on the show. Instead the preaching applies to more ordinary situations people would be confronted with. I recall an episode where one of the son's was hanging out with a new friend, who happened to have pot in his backpack, as Rev Camden found out. His immediate reaction is to call the police, explaining to his son that a) drugs are wrong, and b) call the authorities on your friend, because that's the American way. Because a lot of episodes are about his teaching his kids a lesson in moral values, and because as a reverend he has basically the same role for his parish/neighborhood, the way I see it is that all the plots involving him are essentially about preaching and judging. - Unmitigated Success

Emily, you're free to make changes if you want.

Not preachy or judgmental?! What show are YOU watching, because you must not be watching 7th Heaven. From RevCam sanctimoniously spying on people and telling them what to do, to the rest of the family sticking their noses into other people's business, they are about as judgmental as you can possibly get. Not preachy? What about that episode "Healing Old Wounds" (more like opening new ones) where Martin's Dad was giving Roxanne all kinds of bullshit reasons for going into Iraq and kissing her before she could respond? This show is pure, unadulterated CRAP and I can't believe that it has fans or that it got revived (how it's lasted ten seasons - at least six too many - is beyond my comprehension).

Political affiliation
In the syndicated episode Matt admitted to Sarah that he is a Republican and disclosed that his father, the Reverend Camden, is a Democrat.

Jessica Biel section
There's a problem in the last paragraph.

"Her appearance in the 10th season finale, though limited, shed light on events taking place during the last few months. Mary graduated college the same weekend as Matt and Sarah, reunited with husband Carlos, and is pregnant with twin girls. Although she was not with the family, her conversation with her husband during the episode revealed that their reunion took place during Matt and Sarah's graduation ceremony, the first time they had all been together in almost three years, also suggesting some final resolution to the estrangement that had been present since Season 5."

It is impossible for Carlos and Mary to have reunited at Matt and Sarah's graduation, as that graduation was scheduled to take place the day after the events seen this episode. I don't recall the actual situation mentioned of how they reunited, but it clearly wasn't this one.

Also, in addition to the scene of her talking on the phone, she showed up in an imaginary sequence earlier in the episode, where she interrupted Simon and Rose's wedding ceremony.12.75.53.85 04:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

someone wrote something about Mary becoming a hooker...? I wish this was true but, come on, surely it isn't.

Characters

 * Please help expand this page: List of 7th Heaven Characters It needs a lot of work. -AMK152 15:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

- surely Lucy is not named for a key biblical figure. Or are there reasons to believe it is derived from Luke? It seems a bit of a stretch compared to all the other kids. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.21.92.5 (talk) 01:07, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

TRUE or FALSE?!!
3 new characters have been added to the cast and 3 others have left. Also, its been said if the 13 episodes do good, 9 more will be produced and Beverly has went on to say that if the show does in fact get a 12th season, it WILL have new actors for the characters that are currently there, as in a big if.

David G and Jessica both said the same thing about that one of the characters this year wll pass away.

In the Alison Lohman article it is stated that she had a part in 7th Heaven, however she does not appear in the cast lists. Can anyone verify please?

Denomination (redux)
“... many American Protestant denominations do not permit women to occupy a clerical position.” Where does this come from? Most Protestant demoninations I am aware of here in the U.S.A. have female clergy. This statement needs verification. — Michael J  23:03, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * See Ordination_of_women. Many do not: Presbyterian Church in America, Orthodox Presbyterian Church, Reformed Church in the United States, probably some independents as well, etc. etc. I'll remove the  accordingly. --  The Great Gavini  16:55, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

spell correcting
hi i fixed several spelling errors

Election
A 2004 episode about the importance of voting on election day seemed to suggest that men in the family were voting for incumbent president George W. Bush while the women were voting for Massachusetts Senator John Kerry

Where in this episode is a clue that Eric & Kevin vote for Bush and Annie & Lucy for Kerry? There was absolutely no clue AFAIR.--84.142.162.135 11:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

A section for criticism
I would really like to see voiced opinions about this show. I would add both a section for praise, but also a section for skeptics. For me, I am a european, this show is pretty dramatic in its continuing touting of american white moral standards, lack of diversity of opinions, and speculative upbringing. For me, those kids seem traumatised by their parents, though the parents love them, I personally think the show touts "tough love". I would believe an article about a large and long-running show like 7th Heaven benefits a section about opinions regarding the show. 84.48.23.161 00:43, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Can we just burn every episode of this shitty show instead? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.92.130.84 (talk) 16:55, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

How about we go and burn "every episode of Family Guy" instead? Silvershrek (talk) 19:02, 10 June 2011 (UTC)Silvershrek

Hi, I have no idea if this appropriate or not, since I'm not a contributor, but the criticism section does appear to be quite one-sided. I remember reading this rather scathing (and amusing) review in the NY Times, a paper of record, I believe. So might this be included? 89.247.107.191 (talk) 13:00, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Request for comment on articles for individual television episodes and characters
A request for comments has been started that could affect the inclusion or exclusion of episode and character, as well as other fiction articles. Please visit the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction). Ikip (talk) 11:22, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Dead link
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Missing 'Jessica Biel's departure' section?
Just wanted to note that the article references a non-existant "Jessica Biel's departure" section in the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.253.29.167 (talk) 13:39, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Removed the reference. There had been a section named that, but it was removed last year for lack of sourcing. — Ed! (talk) 16:31, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

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