Talk:A. F. N. Everett

NRHP?
User:Doncram: Are you able to find any listed on the NRHP please?Zigzig20s (talk) 10:39, 15 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Sure, there are at least 3 separately listed. Searching in NRIS version 2013a, i.e. listings up to some date in 2014, yields:
 * Converse-Dalton House, 305 N. Patterson St. Valdosta, GA Everett, Alexander F. N.
 * Marian Apartments, 400 W. Poplar St. Griffin, GA Everett, Alexander F.N.
 * Selig Company Building, 330--346 Marietta St. Atlanta, GA Everett, Alexander F.N.
 * Just guessing, but the Valdosta and Griffin ones might possibly be significant locally because wow they got the big Atlanta architect to come here, and this is the only local building designed by him...
 * While, there are probably many works by him within huge NRHP-listed historic districts in Atlanta and its area. --Doncram (talk) 11:27, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I would browse looking for mentions in NRHP HD docs. But yesterday and now I am just encountering "Http/1.1 Service Unavailable" error message when I try to get to NRHP docs, such as for Ansley Park Historic District within National Register of Historic Places listings in Fulton County, Georgia. --Doncram (talk) 16:50, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The NRHP docs became available again, and i checked a few:
 * Ansley Park Historic District's 1979 original nom doc has no mention of Everett; its later expansion NRHP doc seems not easily available.
 * Peachtree Highlands-Peachtree Park Historic District's nom doc has no mention of Everett.
 * The numerous Atlanta and Atlanta-area historic district articles (linked from the Fulton County NRHP list or from the DeKalb County NRHP list) mostly don't exist yet, or their stubs do not include NRHP document references, which makes it harder to browse for "Everett".
 * I dunno, maybe a drive to create/expand those HD articles first, and then to search for Everett within them, might be justified. I'd be more interested in pursuing that if there were one or a few other editors willing to do some of them.  But i haven't had much success in recent years in asking for other NRHP editors to join in on drives (while years ago there the same would find more general willingness). --Doncram (talk) 22:42, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

one or two Everetts designing churches in Atlanta?
An Atlanta Preservation Center source mentions this Everett as being architect of First Congregational Church (Atlanta). The NRHP document

( With  ) names an "Arthur Green Everett" as one of its architects, along with Alexander Campbell Bruce, however. So maybe he is not the same Everett. But there are errors in NRHP documents about architects' names fairly often, so I am not sure. Usually when there is an error it is a typo, and/or where the nomination author is ignorant about the person, but in this case the NRHP doc contains more info about Arthur Greene Everett, i.e. that "Everett practiced most of his life in Boston, where he designed the Journal Building and dormitories at Harvard College, among others. He worked for several years with McKim, Mead and White in New York, and during that time, he assisted with the plans for the Boston Public Library. Like Bruce, his work on First Congregational Church took place after his retirement. In 1891, he became a fellow of the American Institute of Architects and served as city building commissioner of Boston at one time." It does seem odd to have two Everetts designing churches in Atlanta at the same time, though. So maybe they are the same, or are related.

I put this building into the list-article but maybe it should be removed. --Doncram (talk) 00:09, 16 September 2019 (UTC)


 * The First Congregational was designed "after 1905" but maybe before A.F.N. Everett started (which article now says was in 1920s). Maybe A.F.N. was son of Arthur Greene.  There is only the one mention of Arthur Greene Everett in the NRIS2013a database. --Doncram (talk) 00:16, 16 September 2019 (UTC)


 * It was built during 1910-12 from another spot in the Atlanta Preservation Center source. And there are Google hits on Arthur Greene Everett giving (August 14, 1855 — October 5, 1925) lifespan.  Including "Arthur Greene Everett | Back Bay Houses this and that "Arthur Greene Everett was born on August 14, 1855, in Roxbury, the son of Thomas Blake Everett and his wife, Sarah Elizabeth Greene (daughter of Benjamin ..." here.  So there was a different Everett, who lived earlier and was based in Boston.  It remains possible that he was related/father of A.F.N. and that plus and the church could be mentioned in this article.  Can obituaries for either/both of them be found?  Those would surely name father and son(s) of each. --Doncram (talk) 00:28, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * "He was the son of A. R. Everett, of Boston, who established the first wholesale jewelry firm in this city.".Zigzig20s (talk) 00:36, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I can't read that source, but okay it was not father-son relationship. Okay, just removed First Congregational Church, Atlanta, from this article, as probably not associated with A.F.N. Everett, despite one source saying it was designed by him. --Doncram (talk) 08:01, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * But the NRHP doc for the Converse-Dalton House is very clear that AFN Everett did design the First Congregational Church!

"The Converse-Dalton House is also architecturally significant because of its association with Atlanta architect Alexander F. N. Everett (1881-1937) and Valdosta builder Stephen Fagan Fulgham (1856-1928). Architect Alexander Everett, who worked in Valdosta with Fulgham around 1900-1902, married Valdostan Susie Griffin on January 19, 1901. (The newspaper notes that Everett had moved to Valdosta from Atlanta several months earlier). By 1903, Everett had returned to Atlanta. The 1908 Atlanta City Directory shows Everett working in the firm of Bruce and Everett, with Atlanta's famous A. C. Bruce. The only known work of that short-lived firm is the First Congregational Church on 105 Courtland Street, Atlanta. Everett remained in Atlanta as a practicing architect until his death in February 1937, at the age of 56. Stephen Fagan Fulgham, architect and builder, was born in Washington County, Georgia, one of six sons of a builder. Beginning work at age 16, Fulgham was said to have studied under 'a celebrated Baltimore architect and builder.' He came to Valdosta from Macon in 1895. An October 23, 1900 article in the Valdosta Times lavished praise on Fulgham, noting that he was responsible for 'most of the past five years' construction ... (from the Converse-Dalton House's NRHP document)"
 * So I am going to add it back in, and begin to explain about discrepancies in sources. --Doncram (talk) 08:07, 16 September 2019 (UTC)


 * User:Zigzig20s, could you please change the current version of this article to consolidate references #2 and #3 if that is appropriate? I am guessing there is just one behind-payroll source but i was not sure if what you cite above is the same or not.  Feel free to revise, develop in any other way too, of course. --Doncram (talk) 08:43, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Could you please cite the sentences you add as we go along? Much easier as we build/expand the article. I assume it is the NRHP PDF but it is easier if everything is cited properly. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 08:51, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I've done it.Zigzig20s (talk) 09:08, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Zigzig20s, thanks for editing on that and otherwise. I thought i was citing each sentence already, but okay/good.  (Oh, well, if it was just one source for all of a paragraph i was just citing it at the end.  I agree it can be good to cite each sentence though.)  The Converse-Dalton NRHP document is one source that refers to 1881 birthyear, would that suffice for you to drop the "citation needed" about that?  I leave it all to you for the rest of today, don't want to cause edit conflicts and need to go do something else now anyhow. Cheers, --Doncram (talk) 09:16, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. I've also removed the 'under construction' tag for now.Zigzig20s (talk) 09:20, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

This shows up on a sort of “official” sounding web site: “The church was designed by Alexander Campbell Bruce and Arthur Greene Everett. Bruce moved to Atlanta in 1879 and formed a partnership with Thomas H. Morgan. He was the co-architect for the Georgia Institute of Technology, the county courthouse, Confederate Veterans Home, Kesee Lee Building, and North Avenue Presbyterian Church. Outside of Atlanta, his works included the Cotton Exchange in Mobile, Alabama, and the Newton County Courthouse in Covington, Georgia. Bruce was the first member of the Atlanta Institute of Architects to locate in Atlanta. His work on First Congregational Church was done after his retirement in 1905. Everett practiced most of his life in Boston, where he designed the Journal Building and dormitories at Harvard College, among others. He worked for several years with McKim, Mead, and White in New York, and during that time, he assisted with the plans for the Boston Public Library. Like Bruce, his work at First Church took place after his retirement. In 1891, he became a Fellow of the American Institute of Architects and served as city building commissioner of Boston. The builder, Robert E. Pharrow, was a black Atlantan and member of this church. “

Argh, there are contradictions between sources and I can't figure out what is correct. I suppose there were two Everetts designing churches in Atlanta, and perhaps even contemporaries might have been confused. I have added mentions about confusion into the article, not sure if that is a good idea or not.--Doncram (talk) 02:54, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 * No, I think it should be removed from the article and further discussed on this talkpage...Zigzig20s (talk) 02:04, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

birth date

 * Okay, good. I notice the Find-a-grave source which you added gives a specific birth month and day in 1880 as his birthdate, not agreeing with other source(s) mentioning 1881.  But it is more specific and probably better info about that, is my guess. --Doncram (talk) 09:33, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Find a Grave is not a reliable third party source. It's an external link but not a reference.Zigzig20s (talk) 09:35, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Zigzig20s, well, the NRHP document for the Selig Company Building is a source referring to 1880 as his birthyear ( With  ).  I do tend to believe the only source we know of that supports a specific date.  And I don't dismiss "find-a-grave" as a source.  I guess we are supposed to dismiss it because it is crowd-sourced like Wikipedia?  Well I trust Wikipedia and find-a-grave unless i see a reason not to, such as for political manipulation/bias, not present about a birthdate of an architect.  So at this point I would at least put in "1880 or 1881" and explain about differences among sources.  It would be better of course to find an obituary. --Doncram (talk) 17:43, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Find-a-grave usually (or always?) is using photographic evidence. Here, it is hard to see at first, but one can zoom in on the Findagrave photo to see the 1880 date clearly (try this link to the photo and then enlarge?) In Wikipedia we do accept use of photos.  I can't necessarily distinguish between April 13, 1880 vs April 18, 1880 as the birthdate from the photo, myself;  I would accept what find-a-grave says it is.  --Doncram (talk) 18:03, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I added it based on this. However, the tombstone is wrong about his death date, because February 11 was a Thursday and his obituary says he died on Tuesday, so on the 9th...and he was buried on the 11th.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:10, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Oakland Cemetery
Maybe worth noting, maybe not: Oakland Cemetery (Atlanta, Georgia), where Everett is buried, was designed by Bruce & Morgan (per its NRHP nomination and also per NRIS, i.e. by Alexander Campbell Bruce, with whom Everett partnered.  I think Bruce is buried there too. --Doncram (talk) 09:23, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I, too, see patterns everywhere. Yesterday I began to wonder if the original owner of the Evans-Cucich House had been friends with Taylor Malone. When Malone died in 1955, he was 76 and Evans was 74 I think?Zigzig20s (talk) 06:04, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * User:Carptrash: Did I get the math right?Zigzig20s (talk) 17:20, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * To do ages you have to know birth dates. But you are okay, give or take a year. Carptrash (talk) 17:44, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Maybe they weren't even friends. But I now wonder who designed Malone's house in Memphis; was it Everett?Zigzig20s (talk) 06:50, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I can't find Malone's address in Memphis. There may be pictures/articles somewhere, potentially censored...Zigzig20s (talk) 08:06, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Besides Evans, Malone might have been college buddies with Theodore Bilbo (who wanted his fellow Americans to "go back") if I got the age range right. Not exactly "very fine people." Not sure if Everett designed their houses though. It looks like he was only active in Georgia.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:25, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Layout
User:Doncram: Wouldn't it be preferable to move the content in the "Works" section to the "career" section with full sentences?Zigzig20s (talk) 09:53, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I personally like to give a list of works, allowing for year-dates, footnotes, mentions of type of architecture, other stuff to be added. Flexible, allows for small esoteric or whatever notes, like the fact that the one building was abruptly demolished (a factoid which is not part of his career, but perhaps of interest to someone in Atlanta considering visiting items in the list, i dunno).  Also factoids of which are NRHP-listed or not, and which one is also part of a historic district, etc., also not part of his career. I think it is easier for readers to skim a list than try to unpack a lot of detail written out in text.  Also while collecting info, the order keeps changing as get year-dates and/or change dates, and easier to work with list rather than moving sentences into different order.  I guess i see most architect articles as being list-articles of the architect's works (usually to be organized chronologically when that becomes possible), also with a bio section, which is a different emphasis than being a pure biography article which might be more selective.  There are architect articles written by other editors than me which are organized as more proper biographies per se, with selective mention of works, which link to comprehensive separate list-articles of their works (mainly for more important architects, where lots of info is available, some of these being featured articles probably, while none of mine are feature-quality).  Your views may differ.
 * Even if the list overlaps somewhat with discussion in a "career" section, which I think should hit the important highlights only, as established by sources saying which were the turning points in the career, and not mentioning less significant works, and not mentioning some details about individual works which may be added gradually. Do you really want to say which type(s) of architecture (not yet part of the list, I acknowledge) apply for each work, in text?  Okay by me if you want to do it differently, though.  Perhaps if you wanted to try, you could expand the career section as you want it with intention of dropping the list of works, but leave the list of works in place as you try?  Then at the end you decide whether to keep it or not, and maybe that works for this architect.  I'm happy to leave it to your decision. Over and out! --Doncram (talk) 10:04, 16 September 2019 (UTC)