Talk:A. W. Piper

DYK?
I can think of some great DYK hooks for this.
 * ...that A. W. Piper was the last socialist Seattle City Council member until 2013?
 * ...that the orchard of A. W. Piper, a 19th-century socialist Seattle City Council member, still produces heirloom fruit?
 * ...that A. W. Piper was a 19th-century socialist Seattle City Council member who later ran a bakery from a tent in Alaska? (a picture would be great here)

I'm going to try to source the heirloom fruit angle a little bit, and see if the picture of the Alaska bakery tent exists. — Brianhe (talk) 19:20, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Just barely fits, and we'd be able to use the cartoon.
 * ...that Seattle's last socialist City Council member until 2013, A. W. Piper, drew editorial cartoons, including one of a lynching that gave the city a reputation of wild west lawlessness?

It's not totally sourced yet; I believe Skid Road is our best source, plus, etc.

Also, at least one source says the hanging of James Sullivan, William Howard and Benjamin Payne was Seattle's first and only lynching. Probably a worthy subject for an article in it's own right. Currently only mentioned in History of Seattle before 1900. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:15, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Speidel's Sons of the Profits says Harper's Weekly did an illustrated feature on the lynchings, but it doesn't say if it was Piper's cartoon they used. There was some scolding from a judge and a grand jury, but they didn't hold any one accountable. There should be more examples of Piper's cartoons at the UW archive. I might be able to go do some research today. For now we should go ahead with the DYK using one of the above hooks.
 * The Pacific commercial advertiser., February 25, 1882, Page 5, Image 5. (Honolulu, Hawaiian Islands) 1856-1888
 * etc --Dennis Bratland (talk) 15:48, 22 November 2013 (UTC)


 * The SPL central library has Harper's Weekly for those years, but I didn't have time so search through every one to find the feature. I can try gain; maybe I can find an index to tell me which issue it's in. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 00:38, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Here is a searchable archive of Harper's (1850 - 1899). I've been putting in all sorts of terms related to the 1882 lynching and associated names, and I've found nothing. Could be Bill Speidel's book has an error. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 02:31, 23 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Created the nomination Template:Did you know nominations/A. W. Piper. It's not showing up -- not sure if they've got a new template system now. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 16:49, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I see the nomination; you may need to purge the page you're looking for it on. Also it looks like you may need to do a quid-pro-quo DYK review. — Brianhe (talk) 19:31, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Immigration record
May be Andreas Pfeiffer, on the Urania, arr. Ellis Island June 25, 1847 — Brianhe (talk) 21:13, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, confirming age 25 (but not much else), Andreas Pfeiffer here: — Brianhe (talk) 21:20, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * This is the correct age, born about 1828. But it's August, not Andreas or Andrew. This Anton was born about 1827. Another Anton born 1828. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:59, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The age 25 entry that I found is probably not the right guy - it resolves to this, the Weser arriving 6/8/1872 from Bremen. That would put the birth year c. 1847. My bet is still on the Americanization of Andreas Wilhelm -> Andrew William. -- Brianhe (talk) 20:47, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, we now have multiple sources that say he was 19. I'd really like to trace it back and see where he went to school in Germany. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:00, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Problem with children's birth years
Oscar Albert's 1876 birth isn't listed in the Life section. — Brianhe (talk) 19:16, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The SGS bulletin p.62 says he was born July 13, 1875 but his tombstone says 1876. I guess we should assume they got it right on his tombstone. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 19:29, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Then-and-now pictures of the confectioner's shop
http://pauldorpat.com/seattle-now-and-then/seattle-now-then-front-street-show-strip/ surely has Piper's shop somewhere in the pre-Fire historical photographs of Front Street. It may also be in some of the post-Fire documentation, maybe even this photograph at First (formerly Front) and Cherry. — Brianhe (talk) 21:24, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I was looking for a long time at those two front st photos and could never find the bakery. I could almost read part of the sign, maybe. This one has a decent view. It looked like the name changed from Piper's Bakery to Puget Sound Candy Manufactory. Or both were under the same roof. His house is in here somewhere. Here is an advert. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:40, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, the 1892 photo indicates he did reopen his bakery after he came back from Nome, which is consistent with the sources that hint he grew apples at the orchard to bake in his store downtown. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:46, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm certain this photo looking north on Front from Pioneer Square shows a shop on the east side of the street where the last four or five letters of "MANUFACTORY" are visible. It's in the right location according to the sources. — Brianhe (talk) 00:59, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Here's a hand annotation saying Piper's bakery is in the picture on page 23: . Perhaps the dark sign with light letters left of center is the first few letters of "BAKERY". — Brianhe (talk) 02:43, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Expansion notes

 * 1887 Puget Sound Directory p 204. Seattle Turn Verein, aka Turners. A. W. Piper president. "The Turner movement in Germany was generally liberal in nature, and many Turners took part in the Revolution of 1848."
 * 1867 Pacific Coast Directory p. 256 National fire insurance of SF
 * p. 381 PIper AW confectioner govt. st.
 * p 392 the polices of north american life insurance co Piper W. W. 606 Montgomery
 * p564 under confectioners Victoria --Dennis Bratland (talk) 06:45, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Good find. From my knowledge of German history, I suspected Piper's experience there had something to do with his political views. — Brianhe (talk) 20:50, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * By the way Verein means "club" or "association". — Brianhe (talk) 00:51, 2 December 2013 (UTC)


 * The 1893 Ballard Directory has ads on 3 pages, for Pipers Fine Candies and Ice Cream, at 804 Second, that's 2nd and Columbia on pages 975 and 1007 and Pipers Bakery & Confectionery 315 Yesler Ave on page 991. So it appears he set up in multiple locations after the 1889 fire. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 01:01, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Ice harvesting and climate change?
It's hard to imagine commercial ice harvesting inside the city limits today. I would think you'd need a solid freeze of over an inch of ice on Lake Union to do this effectively. Does this indicate a change in Seattle's climate since the 19th century? Maybe urban heat island effects? — Brianhe (talk) 19:58, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Though pre-20th century climate data is hard to come by, Climate change in Washington mighjt have some good starting points. — Brianhe (talk) 20:06, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Preliminary research indicates this was probably due to the Little Ice Age ending by 1900. The extent of the Nisqually Glacier shown here indicates that Washington was much cooler at the time the ice harvesting was happening. This may border on OR though, so I'll keep an eye open for something linking this to Seattle specifically. — Brianhe (talk) 20:48, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Property transfer
This is a little nit-picky but probably in the scope of the GA review. "Given a parcel" of land seems unlikely for a transaction with the U.S. Navy. Especially since large areas of government-owned land (i.e. homesteading) was pretty much over in the Seattle area by the 1880s. More likely he was paid for the Sand Point property and bought another parcel from another landowner. Also the article on the air station says it wasn't constructed until the WWI era, after Piper died. Is there anything more in the record on this? – Brianhe (talk) 03:02, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The short answer is that I read in at least two sources that it was a "trade" or "swap" or words to that effect. Perhaps the Seattle oligarchy made a three-way or four-way swap where the city pooh bahs gave Piper the Carkeek parcel and facilitated some kind of acquisition of Piper's Sand Point claim that ultimately handed the land to the Federal Government. The intent was for there to be a freshwater Navy base on Lake Washington, but that never came about because it took too long to get the Ship Canal built, so the Navy got impatient and settled for a saltwater base at Bremerton. The long answer will have to wait until I review the sources and get some exact quotes. It's a good question and I'm not aware of any specifics on how the deal went down. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 03:16, 27 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Cemeteries of Seattle is the first source I was using. "The US Governemnt took Piper's property on Lake Washington for the Sand Point Naval Air station. In return, they gave him land north of Shilshole which is not Carkeek Parak.".
 * Seattle Parks has a mored detailed, but still garbled, history of the transactions:


 * Another version
 * Another version


 * I think I got it wrong following Cemeteries of Seattle; it's a more complicated deal. Will update more with what I find. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:55, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good plan. I know that complex transfers have happened in Cascadia before. One of them created the preserve containing Waterman Rock, the erratic you documented on Whidbey Island, involving an Indian tribe, Island County, the State of Washington and one or two private conservation groups (IIRC). - Brianhe (talk) 00:31, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

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