Talk:A5 road (Great Britain)

Article Style
This article seems to have a great deal of obsessive, nerdish detail. Do we really need to know every petrol station that the road passes, and all the numbers of the interescting roads? Reminds me of that Monty Python sketch, where the boring old bloke arrives at the B&B... Anyway, I really think the article is very boring and needs ot be cut down. There are surely a lot more interesting things that can be written rather than the trainspotters version we have now? Graham 23:52, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Fine with me - suggest that you have a go at re-edit to a slimmer version. Velela 07:34, 7 September 2005 (UTC)


 * agreed - which is why I've added the template.  See A1 and A66 for good examples of how a roads article should be laid out, and not simply a narrative of all its waypoints, which is not useful for an encyclopedia.  See wp:mos. —  superbfc  [  talk  |  cont  ] — 20:05, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree with this, the article is now too vague. It doesn't even mention Atherstone which the A5 originally passed straight through and has had a bypass since the 70's, in the Route or in Primary Destinations, yet lists Nuneaton and Hinckley that have nothing to do with this road, those places are not on this roads route . As a user who happened to look at this and the Two roads listed above, my opinion is that the routes are too vague, they are just a list, and an incomplete list at that of places that the roads pass through or goes near. That is not to me a description of a road route. A description of a road route should list all towns on it's route and all roads with numbers that it intersects, also any canal, rivers or railways it crosses. Canals and rivers are labelled on roads. If they're important enough to be labelled on a road surely they're encyclopaedic and should be in the route description. Madhatter1uk 23:20, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, the DoT lists Nuneaton and Hinkley as primary destinations on the route, even though the aren't actually on it! [See the green signs]. That is the policy as decided at WikiProject UK Roads so you need to go there to challenge that policy.  Also, the route of the A5 is its route today, not its route last year or ten years ago or its route when it was designated initially.
 * There is a longer discussion of this below (referring to the material that was deleted from the main article). The result is loss of character as you say but it really had become difficult to find the wheat among all the chaff. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:21, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Deleted material
Such a pity to delete an interesting narrative, even if it did fail the essay test. Reposted here for posterity (as a block quote). (and maybe for a change of policy!)

London to Milton Keynes
Starting at Marble Arch in London, the A5 runs north-west up the Edgware Road through Kilburn and Cricklewood. The A5 number disappears near Edgware, but the road continues as the A5183 through Elstree, Radlett, St Albans and Redbourn, to junction 9 of the M1, where it becomes the A5 again. The road passes through the village of Markyate, then travels through the main shopping precinct of Dunstable, where there is a campaign for a bypass. Travelling north past Hockliffe, there is a roundabout with the A4012 for nearby Woburn. The road enters the Borough of Milton Keynes at Little Brickhill, where there is large roundabout with the A4146 (for Leighton Buzzard and Aylesbury) and a local road (for Woburn Sands). The section just before Little Brickhill forms part of the boundary between modern Buckinghamshire and Milton Keynes Borough.

Milton Keynes to the A43 at Towcester
Little Brickhill is bypassed at the start of the long grade separated dual-carriageway section through Milton Keynes. This £24m ten-mile landscaped diversion opened in October 1980, taking a route east of the former road (still named Watling Street). An extension from the A4146 roundabout past Little Brickhill opened in 1993. The road is crossed by the Marston Vale Line, crosses the River Ouzel and Grand Union Canal, passes Caldecotte Lake, makes a spur junction with Grafton Street (A421 leading to Standing Way) at Beanhill beside the new Denbigh Stadium and passes under the West Coast Main Line. It runs alongside the track, between the National Bowl and Milton Keynes Central railway station. Near the station is a grade-separated junction with Portway (A509) near the National Badminton Centre. From the grade-separated junction with Monks Way near Bradwell Abbey, it multiplexes with the A422 from Bedford. It is crossed by the North Buckinghamshire Way. This section bypasses Stony Stratford and crosses the River Great Ouse, which is where the road enters Northamptonshire and the district of South Northamptonshire. The dual carriageway ends at a five-way traffic-light-controlled roundabout with the A422 from Buckingham, the A508 from Northampton, and the old A5 back through Old Stratford and Milton Keynes (as Watling Street).

The next section to Towcester is very straight and passes Potterspury and Paulerspury. At Towcester it passes alongside Towcester Race Course then goes straight through the busy town, passing the Sponne School and crossing the River Tove, before meeting the A43 at a roundabout. This roundabout is very busy at peak times and the junction design is not suited to the volume of traffic on the A43.

A43 to Watford Gap
North of here, the road is less straight, with three-lane "suicide lane" sections or very wide two-lane sections (previously three lanes in the 1960s), and carries considerable numbers of trucks heading between the A43 and the distribution centres near Rugby. At Weedon Bec, the road crosses the West Coast Main Line and Grand Union Canal twice, and tributaries of the River Nene and Nene Way. There are traffic lights and a crossroads with the A45 at Weedon, and the BP Freeways Motors. North of Weedon, the road is followed by the West Coast Main Line for many miles.

It crosses the Grand Union Canal again twice just before the junction with the B5385 for the village of Watford. This is close to Watford Gap service station on the M1. The West Coast Main Line passes under the road and the road is crossed by the Jurassic Way. One mile further north is Watford Gap itself, where the road deviates to the west, away from the course of Watling Street over the M45, adjacent to the M1/M45 intersection and on towards Kilsby.

Watford Gap to Hinckley
Turning north again at Kilsby where the A361 joins, the road returns to the course of the Roman road near the DIRFT freight terminal and the M1 junction with the A428. The complex layout here seems intended to force southbound traffic onto the M1 at Junction 18 and it can be difficult for non-motorway traffic to find the A5. The road crosses the West Coast Main Line again, at this point in two cuttings because of the Northampton Loop junction. The road then technically enters Warwickshire, although the boundary of Warwickshire at Nuneaton (and Leicestershire at Hinckley) follows the route of the A5 for many miles until Atherstone. The A5 passes to the east of Rugby where there are a large petrol station and transport café and the remaining four masts of the Rugby VLF transmitter. (These have reduced in number since June 2004, though still distinctive at night with numerous aircraft warning lights).

The road passes near the ancient Tripontium and under the M6 and reaches the A426 at 'Gibbet Hill' roundabout. It passes close to Lutterworth on the A4303 (formerly the A427) and the immense Magna Park distribution centre, built on the old Bitteswell airfield. From here to Hinckley, the road is a few feet inside Leicestershire. Near Hinckley, at High Cross (Venonae), it crosses the Fosse Way Roman road, now the B4455, though once the A46. In Roman times this intersection was one of the most important in Britain, being almost the dead centre of the country. Today it is a very open rural area. The road alternates every few miles between single and dual carriageway, which it does allow plenty of opportunities for overtaking, not possible south of Rugby. The road intersects with the M69 (and B4109) at junction 1. Further north is the Three Pots Service Station.

Hinckley to Tamworth
At Hinckley, the road crosses the Ashby de la Zouch Canal, goes under the Birmingham to Peterborough Line and meets the A47 at a roundabout and staggered junction. The road is now a few feet inside Warwickshire. Near Caldecote and the staggered junction for the A444 is the entrance of the testing ground of MIRA.

The road crosses the River Anker near an ancient Roman settlement close to Mancetter. It bypasses Atherstone with the former route being the B4116, passing close to the Queen Elizabeth School and crossing the West Coast Main Line and Coventry Canal. There is a roundabout with another separate section of the B4116. There are two more roundabouts and a junction for the Birch Coppice distribution park, which is the site of a former colliery. It meets the M42 at junction 10 and the Tamworth service area.

Tamworth to Cannock
The next section, in Staffordshire, is a dual carriageway, the £26m five-mile Fazeley, Two Gates and Wilnecote bypass opened in July 1995. The former route straight through Tamworth is now the B5404, which meets a grade-separated junction near the Midlands distribution centre for Morrisons. There is a grade-separated junction with the B5440 near the Belgrave High School and the road passes under the Cross Country railway line, then over the Coventry Canal, the A51, the River Tame and the A4091 near Fazeley. There is a free-flowing grade-separated junction with the A453 (leading to the A51) at Bitterscote which is the main exit for Tamworth. The road passes over the Birmingham & Fazeley Canal and meets the A453 (and B5404 leading to Hopwas) again at a grade-separated junction near the Sir Robert Peel Hospital. The road then continues along the Fazeley to Weeford dual-carriageway section, which opened in 2005. This new section crosses the Heart of England Way. At the Weeford junction, which used to be a bottleneck, the A38 now passes under the island, and the M6 Toll comes up alongside the A5. The road reverts to single carriageway for a short section to the junction where it meets the A5127 Lichfield to Sutton Coldfield road (via Shenstone), and the A5148 (for the A38 north), at a roundabout. There is an ancient Roman settlement near where Watling Street meets Ryknild Street at Letocetum, now called Wall. There is a museum owned by the National Trust which is accessible from the A5127 (north).

The next dual-carriageway section of road goes under the Birmingham Cross-City Line. At the Muckley Corner service station there is a garage and the Olde Corner House Hotel at the A461 roundabout, where the A461 heads south-west into Brownhills. The single carriageway road is now heading directly west, over the M6 Toll. There is a roundabout with a minor road (formerly the B4155) where the road enters the borough of Walsall. The Chase Inn is on the right. The road briefly enters Staffordshire at crossroads (with traffic lights) for the B5011 and A5195 (formerly the B5011 which heads to Burntwood and the M6 Toll junction T6), after which the road crosses the Wyrley and Essington Canal, near the Chasewater Reservoir and Holland Park. On the left is Watling St Primary School and Brownhills Community Technology College. The road meets the A452 from Sutton Coldfield, before entering Staffordshire again. There is the Turf Island roundabout with the B4154, close to the Norton Canes service area. The road is now next to the M6 Toll for a couple of miles, where there is a junction for Norton Canes.

Cannock to Telford
At Cannock, it crosses over the M6 Toll at a junction with the A34 and A460. The dual-carriageway A460 heading north has access to the Orbital Centre retail park. To the south on the A34 is Great Wyrley. From the A449 roundabout there is another garage. The road passes under Telford's Shropshire Union Canal aqueduct and past Belvide Reservoir, and then runs along part of the northern boundary of Weston Park, at which point the road is heading due west. The road enters Shropshire at the A41 roundabout. At Telford, it deviates from the old route and meets the A442 and the M54 at junction 5. This is very close to the central shopping area of Telford.

Telford to the Welsh Border
From Telford, it multiplexes with the M54 for a short stretch. The old route is now the B5061 and towards Shrewsbury the B4380. At junction 7 of the M54, the A5 resumes. The A5/A49 17-mile £79m dual-carriageway Telford-Shrewsbury Bypass opened in August 1992.

Here the road passes close to The Wrekin. Nesscliffe has been bypassed by a dual carriageway. The A5/A483 ten-mile £18m Oswestry Bypass opened in December 1986. After this Shropshire section, the A5 enters Wales just west of Chirk and leaves the A483 multiplex.

English Border to Holyhead
It continues through the middle of the towns of Llangollen and Corwen, crossing the River Conwy over Waterloo Bridge into the village of Betws-y-Coed and then ascends through Capel Curig and reaches its maximum height at 312 metres shortly before passing Llyn Ogwen. When Telford rebuilt the road, he built it on the opposite side of the Ogwen Valley, as the old road had steep gradients exceeding 5%. The road then descends between some of Snowdonia's greatest peaks before passing through Bethesda and through Bangor before crossing the Menai Strait on the Menai Suspension Bridge near Bangor.

The A5 then crosses Anglesey in parallel to the A55, passing through Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, before arriving at the port of Holyhead, where it has traditionally ended at Admiralty Arch (1821, designed by Thomas Harrison to commemorate a visit by King George IV en route to Ireland).

Insufficient Detail
Whilst I appreciate that the level of detail prior to the mass-deletion was excessive, this article is now badly under-worded. There's no mention of the junctions with any other roads, of the grade-separated dual carriageway through Milton Keynes or the alterations made with the A55 in north Wales. These all really ought to be in there, but I'm afraid to add them in case some deletionist decides that things other people find interesting are 'boring'. Tom walker (talk) 19:30, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Is there a talk page for the UK Roads project, where you could raise it? I can see both sides of the argument.  When people started to add stuff like "a former Little Chef", then really you had to question the value.  But you are right - the article now is characterless.  By the way, the infobox lists all the major roads crossed and main towns en route. (as defined by the DoT or Environment or whatever it is this week). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 12:48, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * There appears to be two opinions on this. One is for a tight 'just list the major destinations as determined by the MoT 'green signs'. See the recent edit to talk:A45 road, citing the A1 road (Great Britain) and the A66 road (Great Britain) as examples of good practice.  I have just edited down to that standard and User:Jeni immediately reverted.  We clearly need a consensus MOS. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 14:00, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Consensus above is pretty clear on the subject! Jeni  ( talk ) 14:01, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Where? Why does A1 road (Great Britain) not follow it? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 14:06, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The article should mention all of the information from the infobox in it somewhere so all of the roads in the list should appear somewhere in the text. I cannot see a problem with a larger description of the route so you get an idea of the road and its layout, rather than a very short description of just a few road that it joins which does not paint any picture of the features along the route. Keith D (talk) 15:09, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The A6 road (Great Britain) article is a current example of what happens when the WP:Trivia and WP:Essay policies are ignored. Do we really want that? Again, where is the relevant UK Roads MOS? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 19:41, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * At least make realist comparisons! The A5 route section is nothing like the A6 one you cite. Please do point something out which has relevance. Jeni  ( talk ) 21:00, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, please do put them in! I can't believe details have been taken out !  anyone with a genuine interest in this road want;s to know. 83.147.179.6 (talk) 15:58, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

UK roads MOS
I have opened a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Roads. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 20:03, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Map
This page needs a picture of the route of the A5 across england. Chogg (talk) 15:58, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * There is a good map on this map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watling_Street I've tried to add it in the info box, but my wikipedia skills are not up to it. Chogg (talk) 16:09, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have fixed it for you. Keith D (talk) 19:05, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Trivia strikes again
As can be seen from the early sections of this talk page, this article tends to acumulate trivia (like speed limits and hamlets en-route) and predictable material (like congestion in built-up areas). For the reasons that were given in the previous discussion, I've done a clean-up. If anyone thinks that this 'local colour' should be included, take it to WikiProject UK Roads. But more than likely the consensus will be - take it to SABRE wiki, A5 article --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 13:05, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

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Junctions table
There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Highways that may affect the content of this article. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:11, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Even though fifteen is still quite a lot for an infobox, you do have to take in to account/consideration that the A5 is 243 miles long. However, if you can reduce it, then please do. If not, then I will do it in the new year. Roads4117 (talk) 19:26, 18 December 2022 (UTC)


 * BTW John Maynard Friedman has cut junctions list to the eight roads of national importance, as shown on OS 1:1,000,000 scale mapping. Roads4117 (talk) 20:24, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

At least get the elementary geography correct
But if we must have this pettifogging detail, can it at least be correct? Is the rest of the table of the same level of (in)accuracy? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:37, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Milton Keynes is in Buckinghamshire not Bedfordshire.
 * Bletchley is a constituent part of Milton Keynes: the current version is the equivalent of declaring a boundary between an animal and its own nose.
 * Bedfordshire ends and Buckinghamshire (specifically City of Milton Keynes UA) starts between Hockliffe and Bletchley, as described in the body text. At 51:58:07N,0:39:08W to be precise.
 * The Little Brickhill/Woburn exit (just south of MK) is in the City of Milton Keynes UA.
 * These exits are all in Milton Keynes proper:
 * A4146 westbound
 * A4146 eastbound
 * A421 spur
 * A509 terminus
 * A422 eastbound
 * I have corrected the errors for Buckinghamshire/MK. I assume that there are as many more elsewhere. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:50, 23 November 2022 (UTC)