Talk:ABC Television (Australian TV network)/Archive 2

Redirect
That is actually incorrect as "ABC TV" redirects to "American Broadcasting Company" perhaps this should be fixed, as articles like Changi are misleading. (The ABC TV in the information box under "Broadcast" links to "American Broadcasting Company" as mentioned before.) --Caramelldansener (talk) 10:51, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

ABC4 - 6
I know ABC3 is going to be created, but I haven't heard of any of the other channels. Does anyone have any proof or citations for this table? -mickiscoole Talk 23:45, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Get rid of all of that crap. Even most of the stuff on ABC3 is innaccurate. ~ Trisreed my talk my contribs 01:07, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

If you have a look you will see that it has a citation, ref number 16 i think it is, Plus no one said anything about a ABC 7 or 8 only ABC 1,2,3,4,5,6. So i made a change in the title of this comment, hope that was ok Thuringowacityrep (talk) 09:32, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

with this at the bottom of the article in the table (with things relating back to ABC) ther is a link to ABC3 which just links back to the article, should this be deleted? 203.171.196.134 (talk) 07:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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Proposed merge of ABC (TV station) into ABC Television
The ABC (TV station) page has no meaningful content and concerns only the Canberra edition of ABC, despite it being broadcast in every city in Australia. Considering that not even 400,000 live in Canberra, I don't see why this article should exist, or why the article under this name should be focused on just Canberra, and not Sydney, Melbourne, or Brisbane, which one would assume has a lot viewership. ItsPugle (talk) 10:28, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Oppose: The ABC (TV station) article is about the TV studio based in Canberra while ABC Television is a brand of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, which encompasses all programs broadcast across it's television networks. All other ABC Australia state and territory studios have article for their studio facilities, such as ABN (TV station) and ABV (TV station). It should be reminded that in this article, the "C" in the title can correspond to "Canberra" as opposed to ABC Television, which encompasses all forms of television broadcasting, where the "C" only stands for "Corporation". Therefore, this article should only be focused on Canberra (and NOT "Sydney, Melbourne, or Brisbane,") and shouldn't need to be deleted. It probably even needs to be expanded... Happily888 (talk) 03:02, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Other content is no an overly valid statement her. Is their anything so absolutely special about the Canberra program that it cannot or should not be all streamlined into the main ABC Television article? ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 07:04, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * My first point (not on other content), which was the fact that this article is about the Canberran TV station, while ABC Television is about the actual TV network service, which are the channels which the ABC own. These are two totally different things as a TV station isn't exactly going to fit into an article which is about the television and radio channels which the corporation delivers. Happily888 (talk) 07:25, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * That's exactly my intention. The ABC Television article is the television network that ABC (as in Canberra) is a part of. Is their any so extraordinary information about this specific channel that means it must be separate from the master article? I would think not - the entire set of capital city ABC stations could be adequately described in one line: ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 10:37, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Although the individual programming, location and transmission info, found in ABC (as in Canberra), is important. The page could probably be expanded upon in the future but the current information is unable to be summed up in the aforementioned line. If so, we should also be merging the ABD (TV station), ABS (TV station), ABN (TV station), etc... pages with ABC Television under that line. (I know that this is venturing into Other Content again — but it shows that the information provided in the article is significant and also beneficial to keep.) Happily888 (talk) 10:51, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * How exactly is the translator code for relay locations relevant to the everyday people Wikipedia writes for? How is the physical height of the broadcasting antenna absolutely necessary for people to know? The transmission details that are actually relevant are the same everywhere: channel 2 and 22, catch up on iView. Everyday Australians do not need to know that the digital transmission frequency it's broadcast on is 8, or that it has a 50 kW radiation power. And if you still want to bring up other content, none of the articles have any citations (apart from one piece of OR), ABS is actually just the normal national program after it was shutdown, and ABN has no real relevant information other than the fact it started using colour TV in 1975. There's nothing to say that we can't have a paragraph explaining that there are regional variations to content broadcast on the ABC channel, but we don't need 8 different articles for it all. God, even just having one article like would be better, ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 11:26, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Then why can't you just propose a merge of all the regional "TV station" articles to and maybe even start a new draft article for them? Yes, I agree that relay locations may not be very important to "everyday people", although programming and history information certainly needs to be kept. Happily888 (talk) 00:34, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I would still prefer to the nth degree to just put any relevant information into the master ABC Television article - there's so little information, and so much of it overlaps, that literally everything could probably be covered within a paragraph or two (especially since the differences when compared to the national ABC channel is the same for all the channels: elections and sports). A paragraph or two is also not really enough detail to base an entire article on, so if we did have a separate Regional ABC channels article, there would have to be significant evidence that there's more to be said about the channels. And it's not even marginally important for our readers to know the relay locations and radiation power of the transmitters, so all that will be gone (not to mention that it's actually all unreferenced anyway). ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 01:35, 10 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Merged talk page from ABC Guide.

Signifigance?
I can understand the reasoning behind the articles for other VPGS (Seven Guide, Nine Guide, etc.) however this is more of a filler/testcard type thing - certainly not a datacast channel (which is a somewhat deceptive title given that it isn't actually a seperate channel). It warrants a mention in the article for ABC HD or ABC2 but not its own article. timgraham 11:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm going to bring this up again seeing as it's been mentioned in the Digital Television in Australia article - there is no such channel. It's just like a testcard or perhaps ITV Nightscreen or Pages from Ceefax - not a datacast channel at all, just an automated filler. Either it needs to be shifted into the ABC TV, ABC2, or ABC Television article or reworded significantly. timgraham 13:37, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I've just condensed it a bit and added a tag for verification as well as cleanup (which has already been partly done) - there' no indication that it's even called ABC Guide. timgraham 13:46, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I totally agree with your changes to the article Tim. The ABC Guide is not a channel, it is just an automated filler. I have now accordingly removed it from the main Television in Australia template. Stickeylabel 21:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Merge
Based on the lack of significance and citations, the discussion above and the apparent lack of online sources for this feature, I suggested a merge to ABC Television (Australian TV network) last week, and am just completing it now. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 01:27, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


 * End merged talk page from ABC Guide

Local station names
The article still refers to "eight state- and territory-based stations, each based in their respective state capital and augmented by repeaters" with a list of names consisting of 3 letters, and matching articles, which don't appear to be used any more, anywhere I can see. Iview refers to "ABC TAS", "ABC News SA", "ABC News Regional", etc. but doesn't mention those old codes. Does anyone have any further information or ideas about how to treat these? Laterthanyouthink (talk) 07:01, 11 June 2021 (UTC)


 * +1 for doing a massive clean up (or delete) of all the three-letter ABC television channels. From what I remember, their used to be specific channels for the capital cities, but now it's just one national television station that local transmitters sometimes override with more region-based content (for example, the ABC might stream a local sports match in Brisbane to the region while other cities have normal programming). Whatever the go is, the articles don't serve any purpose right now and are quite out of date (they still reference shows that ended in 2013 as though they're ongoing) so they would need more work than they're worth. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 07:59, 12 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks, - yes, that seems to be the case. I wish I knew more about the technical aspects. I have yet to find a source that explains the relationships among the various stations, and when exactly (if there was a precise date?) the broadcasting became truly "national". I am wondering if it was perhaps when the relay stations were built? According to the ABC history 1950s page, "In television, all news had to be sent to the capital cities by teleprinter, so that news bulletins could be prepared and presented separately in each capital city. Copies had to be made of filmed material which was then sent individually to each State. In 1960, videotape, where both vision and sound are recorded on magnetic tape, was still in the experimental stage. It was not until 1962, that videotape recording equipment had been installed in all capitals.", then (next page) "By mid-1961, direct television relays between Melbourne and Sydney were possible, as well as a direct relay between Sydney and Canberra. Less than two years later, for the first time, television programs from Adelaide were viewed simultaneously in Adelaide, Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne - made possible with the temporary establishment of microwave link facilities." According to the (uncited) list of slogans on that page, "1965-1970s: Australian Broadcasting Commission, National Television Service". Perhaps this is the date?
 * p.s. I wrote the above days ago, and in the meantime decided to see if I could make sense of and/or improve the individual articles (and got as far as updating Canberra, Tasmania, South Australia, Brisbane and Western Australia before running out of steam), after stepping back from the work and decision-making involved in merging all of them at this point. I put similar comments on the talk pages of those I did after Tasmania, i.e. to see Talk:ABT (TV station), but I need to take a break from everything to do with the ABC for a good while. It's all too hard, especially as I lack the technical knowledge, and I wasn't in Australia back then, so have no memories to draw on. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 09:09, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * You're all good, @Laterthanyouthink! There is a lot of work that needs to be done, so what you’ve already done is amazing. I think the next point of action is trying to better understand the current state of broadcasting, and we can work backwards from there, possibly in a new, central article instead of per-city articles.
 * In terms of this specific date, I would imagine the date that that relay stations were built would be the general date (or close enough to) for when it went from regional to national programming. ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 12:10, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . I think that the current articles perhaps should be renamed to "ABC television in [state/terriotry name]", with redirects from "[ABC Television [city name]" as an intermediate step, just to better reflect what they are actually covering at the moment. There's also Television in Australia, Call signs in Australia (which I suspect might be out of date), and List of Australian television callsigns, which says (uncited) "With the onset of aggregation in regional areas, and now digital television, the callsigns do not retain the meaning that they did in the past. Stations will sometimes change frequency, or have different frequencies at different locations, such as re-transmission sites, where the same signal is re-broadcast in a different area. However the three-letter codes have generally not changed and are still used within the industry." There's further info in call sign and Broadcast call signs (radio only?) but there's still no overview in the clear English aimed a high school student that Wikipedia is supposed to have, and IMO the effect of the transition to digital broadcasting should be properly explained in all of the relevant articles really. Oh well. I might come back to those ABC ones when I find the right time and inspiration, but am not going to attempt to do a crash course in broadcasting and go through all of the other ones. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 01:42, 20 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a plan. I’ll support that intermediate move, but as you said, it’s such a mess right now that you basically need a degree in Australian broadcasting history and a physics minor to understand them. Just let me know if you need help with anything in terms of creating/restarting articles, otherwise we might need to backtrack through the article history to find some knowledgeable beings 😂 ItsPugle (please ping on reply) 07:56, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Spelling
FYI,, the ABC Style Guide specifies South-East Asia, and most government sources specify hyphens for geographical directions such as south-east, north-west, etc. The one-word version is just another of those creeping Americanisms that we probably have to live with. And WP:OVERLINK says not to wikilink countries. Also, have a read of WP:ES about what is appropriate for edit summaries. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 02:16, 13 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Relax. I only linked Australia in the infobox, not the article itself. Also, it's typically written as "southeast". — Ð W (T·C) 12:36, 13 August 2021 (UTC)