Talk:AFC club competitions ranking/Archive 1

ma ranking
guess this page should include the ma ranking. maybe just note the club ranking. the club's one is not really used for anything it seems. -Koppapa (talk) 13:45, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Name changed
It is called AFC Club Competitions Ranking.

http://www.the-afc.com/afc-club-competitions-ranking

Edgar (talk) 08:49, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Next time, please self open the move request in such case, thanks! Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 14:07, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 1 November 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved. Not much evidence of either name in reliable sources, but at least there's one that confirms the name change. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 16:26, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

AFC MA Ranking → AFC Club Competitions Ranking – See also  and  Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 13:50, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination. UA3 (talk) 18:40, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Support Edgar (talk) 05:49, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Support Fauzannaufan (talk) 08:26, 8 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Latest ranking update
First of all I would like to thank Fauzannaufan for his edits and updates to the article. I noticed the latest update included 0.000 points for year 2018, I think it's too early to add and publish 2018 ranking, especially when the year didn't start and no matches played yet. maybe this update can be postponed until first match day in Feb 12, 2018? Best Regards. UA3 (talk) 13:12, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Because the last update is the final ranking for 2017, I assume that there will be no more updates for 2017 ranking and the next one should be ranking for 2018. However, I appreciate your opinion. If it's too early, we can just revert it to the previous version. The table can be easily restored if needed from the edit history. Fauzannaufan (talk) 13:27, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Latest page changes
Recently there have been many changes made on this page. I appreciate some of them, but disagree with the ranking table: 1. The ranking table is outdated. Maybe the latest changes refer to AFC website, but their data is outdated. 2. Columns for slot allocation are not relevant. Because the slot allocation not only depends on the ranking, but also licensing. Many association couldn't enter 2018 AFC Cup because of licensing problems. Cheers. Fauzannaufan (talk) 02:23, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I have revented these edits but those ideas can discuss on this section. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 05:07, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * footyrankings is not a reliable source because their source is exact this page.plz don't modify this again. Shahin (talk) 16:50, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * +1 Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 16:53, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * But 2017 ranking decide 2019-20 allcion. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 16:53, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * See  for more info. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 16:55, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * you can't put information from a self-made site without any reliable source such as AFC official website.plz dont put that unreliable information,tnx. Shahin (talk) 17:00, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * wait till official AFC site released new rank then put new official rank. Shahin (talk) 17:02, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The offical version is . Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 17:04, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * official rank is just this ranking. Shahin (talk) 17:07, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, your table has some wrong information.

Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 17:11, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) The table is 2014-17 not 2015-18
 * 2) 2016 ranking decide 2017-18 slots
 * 3) 2017 ranking decide 2019-20 slots
 * i don't understand but if the table has any mistake plz fix the mistakes. tanx Shahin (talk) 17:16, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * And I don't think this table need Place in xx season because AFC Cup has a standby team in some countries. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 17:24, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm agree with deletion of those columns. Will edit that. Fauzannaufan (talk) 02:26, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Website for ranking update
Hello fellow Wikipedians!

Since AFC don't update the ranking in their website frequently, I have created a website to display the ranking with the calculation details. It will be updated after every AFC Champions League and/or AFC Cup matchday and FIFA World Ranking release. So, you can update the ranking table in this page with data from the website. You can visit the website here. Thank you. Fauzannaufan (talk) 09:47, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah! AFC usually updates once a month. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 10:06, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It's a great idea, but it may violate WP:NOR. UA3 (talk) 15:21, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Is that a reliable source? Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 15:46, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Although the website is self-made, I use AFC ranking formula to calculate the ranking. Just adding detailed information about how each country get the points. I also validate the calculation result with the one in AFC website. So, it should be a reliable source. Fauzannaufan (talk) 10:16, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
 * you mentioned here the site is yours and self-made.plz don't modify your own site information without any other reliable sources in Wikipedia. Shahin (talk) 16:53, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry for that. I used many reliable sources to create that site, but haven't written it yet there. I also use official documents from AFC to calculate all the data. However, this page also have reference to self-made site. Global Football Ranks which is used for club ranking isn't official too. Moreover, they don't cite any sources in their website. UEFA coefficient page also have reference to Bert Kassies' website, which is self-made and not official. Please explain those cases so I can understand. Cheers. Fauzannaufan (talk) 02:25, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Can you explain about the latest revert you made? I mean I already refer the footyrankings website to all reliable sources. It's already 3 months since AFC last updated rankings on their website, so we can update the latest ranking here. You also haven't explained about cases I written above. Please explain that. Cheers. Fauzannaufan (talk) 03:16, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I explained before right here. you can't use your own fan(self)-made site as a source of your edits.if you can't understand the situation,for example everybody can make a (website)page and put everything on that and then use as reliable source in wiki. PLEASE JUST USE THE AFC OFFICIAL RANKING TABLE and stop vandalism.tnx Shahin (talk) 08:06, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay then. But please understand that ranking displayed on AFC website is for 2017, not 2018. The years column there should be 2017-2014, instead of 2018-2015. So I will edit it accordingly. Fauzannaufan (talk) 03:13, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Discussion
Please help us according of conversations above to improving the article.in my opinion we must just use official ranking table published by AFC and don't use any unreliable other sources specially a self-made source.so now tell us what's your opinion.thanks Shahin (talk) 11:32, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Support - I believed we must wait until AFC published new ranking and then update the table. Shahin (talk) 11:32, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Support Although I'm not saying only the official update should take as sources, more reliable sources could use as references. Like ESPN. Not self made publication. No - Price Zero&#124;talk 12:08, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Why wouldn't you take the official source? Third-party sources are only required for establishing notability of a subject, a primary source should be fine for something like this. – PeeJay 12:14, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, I couldn't agree more with that - Price Zero&#124;talk 13:56, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment Per, AFC has published wrong table. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 12:21, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Up to now, AFC only organized 3 Group stage matchday and qualifying play-off in 2018, but the table says: China and Japan has 20+ points in 2018. So exactly AFC has published wrong table. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 12:40, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * But, also agree with NOT using self-published or unreliable website. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 13:00, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Support - But in my opinion I think we must wait for AFC to update and publish new table, From my experience AFC always make a mistake.Ministerboy (talk) 13:30, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Support - Any attempt to update the table ourselves even using the computation method is original research. At least the source from the AFC is verified though it may be outdated.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 14:03, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Support - We'd better wait for the updated AFC table. -- M h hossein   talk 14:11, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment I don't know much on how the rankings works but is there any chance that even though it says 2018, it actually includes all results since past one year? Just a thought. - User:Sagavaj (talk) 14:25, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * See 14:38, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * My doubt is that when it says last 4 years, is it 4 calendar years or past 4 years from the date of updated rankings? It was never mentioned in the above reference that you need to consider past 3 calendar years and current calendar year.


 * Support - How quick and efficient are AFC at updating their tables? If we could do the calculations ourselves, shouldn't it hold? Although I support your idea ultimately. Ayoopdog (talk) 14:59, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment - First of all, official rankings from AFC should be the final decision especially when there is conflict with other source, although sometimes AFC also had mistakes. But in advance, considering the usual delay of updates from AFC, we could use the most common reliable source like ESPN, Goal, BBC and etc to update rankings every time the matches are ended. Please be aware that only English source is acceptable. Then we can use official rankings from AFC to fix difference. Simply skipping other source would make this ranking article not useful at all. We should be careful of making comments every time you make changes by indicating the source. DO NOT just leave comments blank. Troubleo.WS 🍁  Talk 15:13, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what I am saying - Price Zero&#124;talk 16:24, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I also think that other sources should be considered for this, eventually we can make the final updated edits when AFC finally puts up the updated rankings.--Anbans 585 (talk) 04:27, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Support - Let's wait for the official AFC table. Nokhodi (talk) 20:25, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Support - We shall only use the updated AFC table. UA3 (talk) 04:11, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Support - Absolutely, we should use the official AFC tables. Is the alternative calculating the points ourselves? That just seems like it would be prone to errors, although some people here claim that AFC has made a couple of mistakes in the past. Leave a message on my talk board if you want to discuss something - BardiaSaeedi. 09:45, 11 March 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by BardiaSaeedi (talk • contribs)
 * Comment - Sorry for updating the table using original research. However because of original research, we can know that AFC sometimes make mistakes in updating the rankings. Despite that, we only have AFC as reliable source on this topic. So, what should we do about the mistakes? Should we correct it or not? Fauzannaufan (talk) 10:35, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * We also know that the current ranking table in AFC website is outdated. It is last updated on December 2017. You also can check that using Wayback Machine. So, why we display the rankings table in this article as if it's 2018 rankings? I think it is misleading. We should just let the readers know that this article displayed the 2017 ranking table. Fauzannaufan (talk) 10:35, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Then how about the club rankings? AFC never use this ranking for ACL and AFC Cup draw. AFC also don't give update about this ranking since years ago. We also can't found anything regarding club rankings in AFC website. Because of that, there is no reliable source for this section. What should we do about that? Cheers. Fauzannaufan (talk) 10:42, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment: Guess having the updated one as an external link is fine. -Koppapa (talk) 17:27, 13 March 2018 (UTC)