Talk:ALCO FA

Inaccuracy Regarding Physical Description
I have change the statement: "The FA had the same distinctive styling as its larger cousin, the ALCO PA, with a long, straight nose tipped by a headlight in a square, slitted grille, raked windshields, and trim pieces behind the cab windows that lengthened and sleekened the lines." While the FA was very handsome, one of the major physical differences between the FA and PA (aside from size and axle configuration) is the FA lacks the trim pieces behind the cab windows that gave the PA a truly classic look. 24.29.230.163 (talk) 06:15, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

GA nomination
I have aesthetic concerns about this article. At the moment, there's a block of text, a huge expanse of tables, then more text at the bottom. My question is, are the tables really necessary? Wouldn't it be better to give a few illustrative examples of what railway companies bought these engines, rather than list every single one? If you feel the tables are necessary, you might consider putting them at the bottom, and maybe using Template:Dynamic navigation box.

Also, the lead could do with being a little bit longer, and I spotted the country of Argentina where you could drop the first three words, so there may be copyediting to be done. Worldtraveller 09:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I've addressed the issues mentioned by:
 * wrapping the original sales numbers in dynamic navigation box
 * completely copyediting the text
 * expanding the lead to include a broader summary of the subject
 * adding introductory text to the original sales tables, noting the total production and largest purchasers
 * Thoughts? Slambo (Speak)  18:05, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Looks much better! I've re-reviewed and added to the GA list.  Worldtraveller 20:36, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Production
There is no mention of the rush to production of the FA-1/FB-1 in the post WW2 environment. After the failure of the 241 engine with the Black Maria demonstrators ALCO thought it was imperative to rush the FA-1/FB-1 into production. This was done without any extensive testing of the 244 engine which of course was the FA's weakest link. This is all documented by Richard Steinbrenner in his ALCO: A Centennial Remembrance. --SSW9389 14:28, 6 September 2006 (UTC)


 * sofixit. I don't have a copy of that reference (yet), so please add the appropriate information. Slambo (Speak)  14:56, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Steinbrenner p. 304 the last Lehigh Valley set was FPA-2 FPB-2 FPA-2. On page 306 Steinbrenner gives FPA-2 count as 58 ALCO, 19 MLW and 18 ALCO Export, FPB-2 count is 12 ALCO, 14 MLW and 4 ALCO Export. --SSW9389 (talk) 13:20, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Lehigh Valley Roster Extra 2200 South #77 pp. 19-20 LV FPA-2 594 and 590, FPB-2 #583. Photo on page 20 shows steam generators in all three units. --SSW9389 (talk) 20:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Steinbrenner p. 374 Pakistan had 23 A-1-A trucked FPA-2s. --SSW9389 (talk) 13:26, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The Pakistan units DE 2001-DE 2023 are classified as FCA-3s on Andy Inserra's Alco Export page here http://www.tamr.org/Andy_Inserra/ These units are the immediate predecessors of the ALCO DL500 line.--SSW9389 (talk) 08:50, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Steinbrenner p. 305 B&O had 10 FPA-2 and 5 FPB-2. --SSW9389 (talk) 13:36, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Steinbrenner p. 304 ALCO Demonstrators #1602A-B-C-D were FPA-2, FPB-2, FPB-2, FPA-2 and were subsequently sold to the Great Northern.--SSW9389 (talk) 13:36, 27 May 2008 (UTC) Link to photo of Alco FPA-2 1602 Demonstrator set is on the Don Ross site here http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/al1602a.jpg Note the steam line under the front coupler, the fat tank which defines a dual tank FPA/FPB unit, steam generator exhaust stack on trailing B unit and what appears to be steam exhaust from the two units furthest back. Richard Steinbrenner describes this 1602 demonstrator set as the Western Demonstrator on page 304 of Centennial Remembrance.

Good Article Review
This article is currently at Good Article Review. LuciferMorgan 01:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Delisted Good article
this article has been delisted due to a GA Review. Once the objections are addressed the article may be renominated. Tarret 20:58, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

See above in Production there are multiple errors in the rosters.--SSW9389 (talk) 13:45, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The DL500 "World Locomotive" needs to be in a seperate article. Those locomotives were very important to ALCO's export business. --209.86.226.17 (talk) 23:01, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:OP-19356.jpg
Image:OP-19356.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 14:53, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

DL204-DL207 Specification Numbers
Who has good information on the original specification numbers (DL) used on the FA-1s and FB-1s? Steinbrenner uses DL 208 and DL209. Both R. Craig Rutherford and Rolf Stumpf have the original demonstrator FA-1s and FB-1s as DL-204 and DL-205 respectively. Stumpf also lists a DL206 and DL207 on his webpage. Would engine modifications explain the changes in the specification number for these units?--SSW9389 20:34, 20 March 2009 (UTC)--SSW9389 20:34, 20 March 2009 (UTC)--SSW9389 20:34, 20 March 2009 (UTC) These lower numbered specification numbers appear to have been used entirely within the original GM&O order. Steinbrenner states that the first 20 units of the GM&O order were built with cast iron crankshafts and the 12V-244 engine was noted as the 244A. A forged steel crankshaft was used on the next 12V-244 engines and that engine was noted as the 244B. All previously built 12V-244As were refitted with the forged crankshaft.--SSW9389 14:04, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

The Diesel Shop website here http://www.thedieselshop.us/ALCOdemo.HTML lists three DL204s and a single DL205. This corresponds to the first three FA-1s and first FB-1 built in January 1946. There was at least one, possibly two 12V-244A test bed engines at Schenectady from the initial production run of the 244 engines. This would leave 14 or 15 12V-244A engines to be installed in the GM&O FA-1/FB-1 units being constructed in the first half of 1946. These 14 or 15 GM&O units would be built to the DL206/DL207 specification. When the forged crankshafts became available, all 12V-244A engines were upgraded to the 244B standard, and the Alco specification was changed to DL208/DL209. Extra 2200 South Issue 33 page 27 gives the engine used on the FA-1/FB-1 as the 12-244B. This conflicts with Steinbrenner who gives the story of the first 20 12V-244A engines used a test bed(s) and early FA-1/FB-1 production. --SSW9389 17:30, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

The first 20 GM&O units were built with 12V-244A engines. Steinbrenner documents the conversion of these first 20 units to type 12V-244B engines on page 284 of Alco A Centennial Remembrance. See the Account 597-Special Program for Replacement Parts in the Field. The difference in crankshaft manufacture was the difference between the 244A and 244B. --SSW9389 14:48, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

At this point it appears that there were three FA-1s built to specification DL204, one FB-1 built to specification DL205, 16 FA-1s built to specification DL206, and no FB-1s built to specification DL-207. Moody's Steam Railroads for 1949 shows a GM&O Equipment trust dated July 1, 1946 for 20 A units and one B unit. This would indicate that the FA-1 units were delivered in quantity to GM&O before more FB-1s were delivered in the Summer of 1946.--SSW9389 10:17, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Engine data from John Kirkland's Alco book p.118 shows that the first 20 Auburn built 12V-244s were installed in GM&O FA-1s 700-718 and FB-1 B1. --SSW9389 13:31, 14 July 2013 (UTC) Another note here about the first 20 Auburn built 12v-244s. These were actually the 2nd through the 21st engines built. The first 12-244 engine, serial #4253, was retained for testing purposes. The second through the 21st Auburn built 244s were installed in the original construction for GM&O as noted above. The engines were not installed consecutively to the GM&O units. --SSW9389 15:05, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Engine restoration in Portland?
"Spokane, Portland and Seattle Railway No. 866 is undergoing restoration by a private owner in Portland, Oregon." What's the source on that? Does anyone know WHERE in Portland? I'm assuming its on a railroad siding. The Brooklyn Roundhouse was demolished recently and the engine isn't at the Oregon Rail Heritage Center. --98.246.156.76 (talk) 00:55, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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