Talk:AVGP

AVGP
As of this writing the name of this article is AVGP. Perhaps this article name should be deprecated, and replaced with three articles Husky (AVGP), Grizzly (AVGP), Bison (AVGP)?

wrong photo
The photo added today is of a pair of 8 wheeled vehicles.

The older, smaller AVGP vehicles were 6 wheeled vehicles, with a big, distinctive gap between the first and second pair of wheels.

So, what happened to the original pictures? -- Geo Swan 00:14, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Current photos are great. Congratulations to whover found them!  --  Geo Swan 17:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Bisons
The photo in question is actually of two Bison APCs. Despite the fact that this is the wrong photo, someone should make a point of archiving it since there is as of yet no Wiki article on the Bison. --Finnulf 06:30, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Nope, those are LAV 3's. Bisons don't have turrets, you can see the 25mm cannon turrets.

removed commercial...
Someone added a big chunk of hard to read material about Blackwater's new armored vehicle. Inappropriate of them to replace the material on the AVGP Grizzly with this material. The new material seems to have been cut and paste right from a Blackwater promotional brochure. So I erased it.

I'll help the contributor if they would like assistance in creating something like Grizzly AFV (Blackwater), so it conforms to wp:npov.

Cheers! -- Geo Swan 17:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Accuracy - Use in Africa
I have three minor issues with the factual accuracy of the article, one of which I doubt can be fixed. Unfortunately this requires an explanation likely as long the article. Please accept my apologies in advance for the great detail I need to go into over admittedly minor factual inaccuracies. The inaccuracies are in reference to these two sentences in the article and the associated photo.

“One of the vehicles was destroyed by a rocket-propelled grenade.[14] A second vehicle was damaged when it rammed a more heavily armed, but unarmored Technical vehicle.” First inaccuracy

The Photo titled “Canadian AVGP Grizzly destroyed by an RPG in Darfur” is not a photo of the AVGP claimed to be destroyed by the RPG. The Photo is actually a picture of the AVGP claimed to be “damaged when it rammed a more heavily armed, but unarmored Technical vehicle.” In fact you can see the Technical vehicle crushed underneath the AVGP in the photo. That should be an easy fix by renaming the photo or using different one.

This of course leads to the next inaccuracy, that being that the AVGP in the photo was actually destroyed not just “damaged” as the article claims. The source [14] does not state that the APC that rammed the technical was damaged; only that it rammed it. It certainly could be assumed that some damage occurred because of the collision; however I do know for a fact that the APC involved in the ramming (pictured) was in fact destroyed not damaged. Again this is supported by the picture. More accurately, the AVGP rammed a Rebel technical vehicle, but was unable to separate itself from the wreckage and was destroyed in the resulting fire.

The third inaccuracy I am less certain of. I suspect that the statement about the RPG may be inaccurate. I do not doubt that the APC was struck with an RPG, I am actually quite certain it was, however I believe the APC was not destroyed by the RPG, but by having been “burned in place” by the belligerent forces during the raid. However there were a lot of incidents and not all may have reported accurately and some reports may have been “merged” so I can’t be certain. Unlike the second inaccuracy above the source used clearly states that it was destroyed by an RPG so without another source not much we can do.

That being said if anyone does have the time and the access to sources here is the basis of my suspicion. I have nothing to go on other then verbal reports that the APC was not manned, but was hit with an RPG, and then burned in place. My suspicion that the RPG was not the cause of its destruction is based on an unrelated RPG strike on another Grizzly in 2006 crewed by a driver and gunner that resulted in no casualties. The Grizzly was still fully functional after the strike i.e. able to move and fight. I do apologize for not editing the page myself. Although I have never edited a page I would have taken a crack at it was it not for my complete lack of verifiable sources. I am hoping some editors may have access to other more detailed sources that could be use to verify my claims. I have searched the web but was unable to turn up anything that specific and not being an academic with access to military journals I don’t have anything else I can do. I fully realize that what I “know” or “believe” are irrelevant without sources.

Thanks and sorry for all the fuss. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.91.107.248 (talk) 22:45, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.casr.ca%2Fbg-army-armour-avgp-darfur.htm&date=2009-11-01 to http://www.casr.ca/bg-army-armour-avgp-darfur.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090816061548/http://www.army.forces.gc.ca:80/land-terre/equipment-equipement/equipment-type-eng.asp?cat=1 to http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/land-terre/equipment-equipement/equipment-type-eng.asp?cat=1

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Requested move 13 February 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Not Moved Mike Cline (talk) 15:14, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

AVGP → Armoured Vehicle General Purpose – Per MOS:ACROTITLE. "AVGP" is just not known well enough to be recognizable. Better to spell out. Schierbecker (talk) 22:19, 13 February 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:25, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Unambiguous, and references in the article overwhelmingly use the acronym rather than the full name. 162 etc. (talk) 03:19, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Are we reading the same article? Actually, most of the article's sources refer to the AVGP by its full name at first mention (as do my personal combat vehicle reference books). So this fails WP:TITLEFORMAT and MOS:ACROTITLE. "AVGP" means nothing to most people unless you have some really hyperspecific knowledge about Canadian combat vehicles. We've got articles like Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Truck and Joint Light Tactical Vehicle produced in the tens of thousands that still aren't abbreviated (contrasted with vehicles like DUKW, Humvee and BTR-80 which are almost always abbreviated). Edit to add that someone has recently added a hatnote to the top of the page. It is ambiguous. Schierbecker (talk) 06:00, 15 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment it is ambiguous, there are other topics AVGP -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 04:48, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose - AGVP is the common name, and appears to be the primary topic. BilCat (talk) 05:27, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.