Talk:A Dance to the Music of Time (painting)

Which dancer is which?
The article identifies the figures from left to right as Pleasure, Poverty (the only male), Wealth and Labour. Other critics swap the figures of Poverty and Labour: eg in this piece on Poussin and in Robert Cumming's book "Art Explained". The male figure is wearing a wreath on his head, which would be curious for Poverty, and there's a certain symbolism in Poverty grasping for the hand of Wealth and not quite getting a firm hold.Thomas Peardew (talk) 14:51, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't actually think either of these say that, but they are short and cryptic non-WP:RS sources. Both Ingamells and Bull were in the article, though the text had been somewhat messed about, and are very good sources who deal with the painting at length. I have clarified what both have to say. Johnbod (talk) 17:33, 15 September 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm grateful for your substantial and thoughtful revisions, and the article is now a great deal better. I am always amazed that people with your depth of knowledge can find time to edit articles like this.


 * So somewhat diffidently I'd say that there is also a small minority view about the identification of the figures as Pleasure/Wealth/Poverty/Labour in that order around their circle. Here's the first source I referred to: There is a strong grip between the hands of Pleasure and Wealth, but as Poverty desperately grasps for the hand of Wealth it is not clear whether or not she will ever grab hold. That's clearly saying that Wealth is (nearly) holding hands with Poverty. And this is what Cumming says, with a clear illustration too: The dancer on the far right is simply dressed with a plain linen headdress. She represents Poverty attempting to touch the elusive hand of Wealth. But the text of the article now says that - if the figures aren't the seasons - then the male at the back is Poverty. FWIW, there's a preliminary sketch by Poussin showing all four figures as female, so maybe it would be correct to say that Poussin wasn't as heavily invested in our subsequent identifications as we are.


 * As it stands, the article now appears to attribute to Bellori these specific (ie figure by figure) identifications. I don't have access to a copy and I wonder if Bellori merely lists the allegorical figures, without saying which is which?


 * I absolutely agree the sources I quoted are non-WP:RS sources (particularly the first), and accordingly I didn't edit the article, not even to say that the identifications are disputed. Personally I'm inclined to agree with Bull that they represent the seasons, though it's odd that the seasons don't appear in their proper order. Perhaps no less odd than that the succession of Labour to Poverty to Wealth would also be out of the more obvious order. On the other hand, Anthony Powell (as quoted) suggests that the dancers have changed partners, so perhaps the sequence should be viewed in the light of a dance rather than a march-past? Thomas Peardew (talk) 20:15, 15 September 2017 (UTC)