Talk:A Hard Day's Night (film)

On review (on hold)
I am reviewing this article today.Realist2 (talk) 07:00, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

To do list

 * Sort out red links


 * Remove IMDd link, its unreliable
 * - no longer used as a source


 * Remove unfree image


 * Release history section completely unsourced, why?


 * Information on the locations would be better merged into the backdround section.


 * Generally the article is insufficiantly sourced. I could go through it with citation tags ....
 * hopefull all covered now

Hum i will put this article onhold, it must be sourced better. If you dont think you can resolve these issues within 7-10 days let me know. Realist2 (talk) 07:14, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

GA 2nd opinion
Just to clarify a couple of things:
 * I assume Realist2 means Image:Hard Day's Night CAV Criterion Open.jpg? Other non-free images are acceptable as they are used sparingly with a rationale.
 * removed, unnecessary


 * Redlinks are acceptable if an article could feasibly be created from them. The only redlink I see is to a notable role (a film producer), which is OK for GA.


 * Agree that the IMDb reference should be replaced with a [{WP:RS|reliable source]]. Shouldn't be too difficult as the point it supports is quite broad.


 * Locations should not only be merged, it should be written in prose.


 * Similarly, the awards should be written in prose and sourced.


 * "New York Times film critic Bosley Crowther..." needs referencing


 * "After six weeks the film had grossed $5.8 million in rentals." paragraph needs referencing.
 * removed, no source


 * "David Crosby admits, “I came out [of the theater] and swung..." needs referencing, as does other points in this paragraph.
 * removed, no source


 * As Realist2 says, generally it is unsourced. I have only listed a few examples.


 * Single years should not be wikilinked -- only when in full dates.

Hope this helps. The JPS talk to me  09:19, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

More:
 * Formatting quotations like that makes it look fragmented. Just integrate them within the text. The quotation in the lead particularly looks odd and is itself perhaps a little too specific for the lead.


 * The above is especially true of the 'plot' section, which ahs some very short paragraphs.


 * Lose the 'Academy awards' subheading -- reception will accommodate it nicely, and write in prose.


 * "The film is also credited with being a precursor of pop music videos." Paragraph too short. Suggest combining with previous paragraph.
 * moved to "Influence" & expanded.


 * Television, film and magazine titles should be italicised.


 * Could you make more use of the Ebert article?
 * expanded "Influence heading"


 * I've replied to Rodhull...'s question about the IMDb on my talk page.


 * Keep the Allmovie etc. links as external links, not references. References should be indicated at the relevant point.
 * moved


 * Lose the Ebert External link as he is listed in references.

The JPS talk to me  17:48, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

side comment to 2nd opinion

 * Yes I did just mean that picture, sorry if that wasnt clear.
 * There are a number of citations required and i have offered to add citation tags to the article if needs be (this offer was mad at their talk pages as well). I dont intend to list the vast number of citation problems, im sure these experienced editors who often review articles themselves dont need that level of spoon feeding. Realist2 (talk) 11:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Good Article reviewing is a read-only process and does not extend to adding tags. These issues should be addressed in the review. And, no, we need neither spoon-feeding nor patronising nor insults. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 13:56, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Sure thanx for the heads ups. Realist2 (talk) 14:01, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * What's all this about??? I had no problem at all when Realist2 put "citation needed" on the articles he reviewed for me. It saved his time, and mine, by not him not writing, and me not reading reams of stuff. Whatever may have gone on in the past is complete bollards now, because Realist2 and Kodster are two editors that I have a lot of respect for. These editors are working for free, don't forget, and are doing some really good work. Okay? Okay.--andreasegde (talk) 12:50, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Its ok we've had a massive argument "AGAIN" but its cleared the air, Rodhullandemu wasnt aware that i had grown up was all, he was understandably concerned about my own pov biases but i think ive put him clear on where i stand. He can trust me to reach an impartial view. I was asked to review the article personally, im so happy and glad that people i have argued with in the past have gone to such lengths to forgive and forget and to also respect my views. ;-) Realist2 (talk) 16:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Upon reading this article, I think it's great. Definitely worth a GA! Sorry I couldn't really work on this, having nominated this. Thanks to Realist2, The JPS, Rodhull..., and all involved! Great job!


 * Realist2, your call.  Kodster  (Willis) (Look what I can do) 19:31, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

If everyone is finished working i'd be happy to review it, i think rodhull wants to make more adjustements though ? Realist2 (talk) 19:36, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think at present all it really needs is sources for the Releases section. Everything else is covered, I think. I was going to take a short break to watch the last "Torchwood" & return refreshed a little later. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 19:40, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Ha. sounds good, i would rather wait till your sure your finished, im in no rush. Realist2 (talk) 19:43, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, this sounds more like it. You are all good people and it fills my heart with joy (a little bit too poetic, no?) to read such nice words. May your sails be forever pushed to the west (that is not only too poetic, but confusing - please forgive me). Have fun. :) --andreasegde (talk) 23:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "May your sails be forever pushed to the west". Are you telling them to move to this rotten place?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kodster (talk • contribs) 18:15, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Poetry !!!!!!, another talent andreasegde ? Realist2 (talk) 00:31, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Update
OK im going to look through it all now and mention any further corrections (if any) needed. This will take some time but I would appreciate it if everyone let me finish my job before commenting or making further edits to the article. Cheers. Realist2 (talk) 17:17, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem. You can always put an tag on the article while you're doing this. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 17:18, 5 April 2008 (UTC)


 * OK there IS still red links for the producer, i really think they should be removed for an article that is this good.
 * OK, leave it as it is for now, although redlinks are not fatal to a GA status


 * There is still a link to IMDd at the Right hand side, can we just do away with it, it weakens the credibility of the article.
 * has been removed


 * Again on the RHS, uncredited music by ... (in the brackets), just delete it, its far to specific.


 * Remove the "Beatlemania" word, i think its in the article twice, its not prefessional, just say "at the peak of their popularity" with a link to beatlemania.


 * "he had shown a knack for Liverpudlian dialogue" - is knack english slang? alter that word.
 * "talent" might be better, or link to [here] - changed to "aptitude", less colloquial but less clumsy than "adeptness"


 * McCartney's grandfather causes minor drama at a casino - doesnt quite work. Needs rewording
 * left as it is, but is he "McCartney's" grandfather? Paul is playing a character- "Paul". He is not credited as "McCartney" in the cast list, although it is obviously him.


 * Is the dialogue sub heading nessary, its only 3 lines long, unless you intend to expand it???
 * merged, probably not worth a sub-heading of its own


 * Make sure pounds and dollars are correctly wiki linked.
 * - done, but only needs doing once, if at all.


 * There are about 3 dates in the production section that need wiki dating.


 * The reception section would look better as a sold paragraph, it looks disjointed.
 * - recast but Crowther's is long enough to stand on its own.

Sorry, Realist2, I undid your edits by accident. You'll have to do them again. I fixed the majority of the things you said. :) Please feel free to talk to me on my for any comments. Cheers,  Kodster  (Willis)  (Look what I can do) 18:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, theres a few things on the list left to do, kodster handled the ones crossed out. Let me know when they are done. Realist2 (talk) 19:00, 5 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Some notes: We don't need tags when what is asserted can be verified through a Wikilink; this would just clog up the whole of the encyclopedia. Have replaced a piece of plot because otherwise there would be a reference without a target. Have removed "studio thought that their fame would not last beyond the summer", on the basis that it's not essential, no idea how it can be sourced anyway, and it's not critical to the article. All looks fine now. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 19:34, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Final review
Part1 (A=Pass B=Pass) - Well written, correct style and formatt.

Part2 (A=Pass B=Pass C=Pass) - Well sourced, correctly formatted, no original material.

Part3 (A=Pass B=Pass) - Broad, covers the main points without going off point.

Part4 (A=Pass) - Neutral

Part5 (A=Pass) - Stable

Part6 (A=Pass B=Pass) - Good pictures with good captions.

GA PASSED!

Well done folks!!! - --Realist2 (talk) 19:49, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot, Realist2! We got there. I've put the template at the top, you just need to swap my sig for yours. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 19:56, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Good the thing is even if im being a little strict, it just makes FA easier ;-) Realist2 (talk) 20:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

And I hope your opinion of me has changed,,,, at least a little. Realist2 (talk) 20:07, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Very much, in fact. I apologise for misreading your motives. Let's move on to the next GA Nom. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 20:09, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan, mi amiga/o ! Realist2 (talk) 20:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)


 * This is what I call really nice. Is this what happens when I stop editing?--andreasegde (talk) 20:56, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Only when, not because. Thanks for your input, plenty more work around the corner! -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 20:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

My heart is overflowing with.... (wait a minute, I'Ll think of something :)--andreasegde (talk) 21:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You have such a way with words, Andreasegde, just like a true poet. :) Cheers,  Kodster  (Willis) (Look what I can do) 22:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Great job, sorry I missed the celebration! What with A Day in the Life, Thriller, etc. etc. Another GA for Wikipedia! Cheers,  Kodster  (Willis) (Look what I can do) 22:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Paddington Station?
Surely Paddington Station would be too busy to film at? http://www.movie-locations.com/movies/h/harddaysnight.html mentions Lime St Station and Marylebourne Station, though it does say they meant to be at Paddington, which may be why the confusion lies.

Paul —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.195.50 (talk) 14:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

The article is incorrect when it says filming was at Paddington. The location was Marylebone. --Kstern999 (talk) 17:57, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Novelisation
Having managed to score a copy of the novelisation, I added a very basic section about it. I don't know if that's the right place to put it, so feel free to put it somewhere else if you can think of a more appropriate place. Not much to say about the novelisation except that it's by a British hack writer named John Burke who's written a lot of other novelisations besides, and like most novelisations it has all the evidence of being based on an earlier draft than the one that was shot. e.g., The press conference is a scene in the book but none of the Beatles' quips from the film are in it; instead there are what looks like attempts, probably by Alun Owen, to think up Beatleoid quips that were probably replaced on the day of shooting. Still, I am a bit of a connoisseur of the novelisation and I was glad to find a copy of this one. Lexo (talk) 00:07, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Discussion pertaining to non-free image(s) used in article
A cleanup page has been created for WP:FILMS' spotlight articles. One element that is being checked in ensuring the quality of the articles is the non-free images. Currently, one or more non-free images being used in this article are under discussion to determine if they should be removed from the article for not complying with non-free and fair use requirements. Please comment at the corresponding section within the image cleanup listing. Before contributing the discussion, please first read WP:FILMNFI concerning non-free images. Ideally the discussions pertaining to the spotlight articles will be concluded by the end of June, so please comment soon to ensure there is clear consensus. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 05:14, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Citation needed for Charlotte Rampling appearance
I added a "fact" tag to the reference to Rampling being in the film. I have been unable to find any reputable online source indicating she appeared in the film. Not even the IMDb lists this. And the fan sites - as well a Rampling's Wikipedia article - all say she made her film debut in another Richard Lester film, The Knack in 1965. 68.146.81.123 (talk) 04:10, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Bound for Where?
The wiki article under "Plot" states "Bound for a Liverpool show, the Beatles escape a horde of fans". Next paragraph starts "On arrival in London". It was my understanding that the opening, while filmed in London, was meant to represent Liverpool Lime Street Station, and the boys are departing from Liverpool, and in fact are bound for a London show. But I'm no Beatles scholar. Kzirkel (talk) 13:15, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Add ref section
Since Kzirkel added a botched reference template on a talk page, here is a ref section to display it, so it does not show up at the bottom of the page and look like the last person to post created it.

Brit vs US currency
The article says it cost so many pounds, but the box office was so many dollars. This is unencyclopedic and puzzling. What was the 1964 exchange rate? One of the cost figures should be converted to give the reader some idea of how profitable it was. The figure for box office is not a sensible one, since the reference cited states that it starts in 1982, 18 years after the film premiered. It is pretty much a meaningless and misleading figure, and "Unknown" would be more accurate. It was a famous and popular and widely seen film, though it appeared to have been made on a minimal production budget, save perhaps the salaries for the musical group. Edison (talk) 03:39, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

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Assessment comment
Substituted at 06:17, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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"Mockumentary"
It seems to have gotten fashionable to call AHDN the "first mockumentary" or refer to its supposed "documentary quality" as some kind of first, ever since for marketing purposes a VHS or DVD edition of it from the 90s or later has called it a "mockumentary" on the back cover blurb just to sell more copies due to using a fashionable term. All that just because the film purports to be showing a few days in the lifes of The Beatles in a way that's most obviously fictional, being a style of narration which had been known from Hollywood musicals about music stars before, such as the films Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra had made in the 50s and early 60s, or The Girl Can't Help It (1956), the latter being an important influence upon the early lads as to how they imagined music stardom and they've also all cited it as an important conceptual influence upon AHDN in the Beatles Anthology.

In any case, AHDN lacks all the features of an actual mockumentary, or a traditional documentary as they had been made until then, such as a narrator or verbal narration, many long (often hand-held) takes, interviews led by the film's director or crew who are asking questions, and camera angles/photography that would be considered sub-standard for traditional fiction work, all of which are the basic features of mockumentaries at least since Monty Python's Flying Circus (1969-74), Lenny (1974), and All You Need Is Cash (1978). Indeed, if you define a "mockumentary" as any film with somebody portraying a fictionalized version of themselves as a main character or a stage/screen persona under their IRL name, as is obviously being done to refer to AHDN as such, you could even argue that the first "mockumentaries" were made by Charlie Chaplin.

Overall, this is an issue that concerns our articles music video and mockumentary, both claiming that AHDN would be pretty much the "first mockumentary" or would be the "first fiction feature with documentary qualities". But I'm putting it here because this is the central talkpage for the film itself. --2003:71:4E6A:B425:68BE:24D3:6E60:5230 (talk) 18:03, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
 * The question for Wikipedia is whether there are reliable sources calling it a "mockumentary" or not. I don't think DVD covers and other marketing materials qualify. I notice that the article Mockumentary is pretty poorly sourced and has no sourcing for many of the supposed examples of a mockumentary, including A Hard Day's Night. I think you could justify removing that example from that article until someone comes up with sources. My personal opinion is that AHDN does not "feel" like a mockumentary, but that's not the standard for our articles.  Neutron (talk) 20:14, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

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Influence on movement of contemporaneous musicians away from acoustic instruments to electric ones?
Marty Balin's obituary in today's Washington Post credits the movie with influencing musicians to switch to electronic instruments. I'm sure I'm not the one who finds that little slice of music history interesting - people were outright angry bordering on violent when Dylan switched over, iirc. It'd be nice to have any information on this in the article as there's nothing about it now.

Here's the wapo article fyi: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/marty-balin-founder-of-1960s-group-jefferson-airplane-dies-at-76/2018/09/29/3a0db264-c3ee-11e8-97a5-ab1e46bb3bc7_story.html

Spy films
I'm puzzled by the statement that Hard Day's Night inspired spy films. Doesn't seem to have much espionage in it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dynzmoar (talk • contribs) 14:22, 4 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Just Wiki being Wiki. 2600:4040:5D38:1600:7C60:F852:F943:7353 (talk) 12:41, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Cocaine Reference
Presumably the 'small reference to cocaine' is when Lennon sniffs a bottle of Coca-Cola on the train? Stub Mandrel (talk) 23:08, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, see the BBFC's notes for classifying the 1984 video release: "Also a point to notice is that at 0:7:40 John Lennon 'sniffs' at a coke bottle. This very brief reference to the drug cocaine should probably go safely over the heads of the very young." --Metropolitan90 (talk) 15:47, 1 September 2021 (UTC)