Talk:A Series of Unfortunate Events/Archive 1

Untitled
By the way, this is a steampunk series.--&#9786; 01:15, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)

I removed the following line:
 * "The names of just about every character come from somewhere, like Nero, Sunny and Claus Von Bulow, and much more."

What was its intended meaning? &#8212;Rory &#9786; 23:58, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)
 * It means that the name is based on a preexisting person. Nero, for example, is based on a emperor who played his instrument while Rome burned.--CyberGhostface 01:03, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

General plot overview
I cut the following out of the article in the interest of cleaning it up. I haven't read the plot summary below for fear of spoilers, so if someone else could clean it up that'd be great. I'm actually in favour of omitting plot summaries from most articles, including this one, so if no-one wants to work on it that's fine too. &#8212;Rory


 * The series revolves around the Baudelaire siblings Violet, Klaus, and Sunny. In The Bad Beginning, they are told by Mr. Poe, a friend of the family, that their parents have been killed in a fire. They are sent to stay with a distant cousin, Count Olaf, who mistreats them and attempts to force Violet to marry him so he can steal their fortune. A kind neighbour by the name of Justice Strauss gives the children some help, but they are forced to defeat Olaf's plans primarily by their own efforts.


 * The series then becomes somewhat formulaic: Mr Poe, who is in charge of their care, sends them to live with a succession of ever more distant relatives, where they are inevitably tracked down and once more troubled by the wearisome Count Olaf (usually in disguise) and his retinue of henchmen. In The Reptile Room, they go to live with their Uncle Monty, who is head of a herpetological society and keeps a large collection of snakes. Sadly, he is murdered by Olaf. The Wide Window sees them sent to live by Lake Lachrymose with Aunt Josephine, who is afraid of... everything! But Count Olaf returns and murders Josephine.


 * Mr. Poe then sends them to The Miserable Mill - 'Lucky Smells' lumbermill - where they are sure Olaf won't reach them. But Count Olaf and two of his associates stir trouble again, and the Baudelaires get the blame. The owner of the lumbermill sends them off, and their next home is The Austere Academy - a boarding school run by a deranged principal called Nero. The Baudelaires make friends with the 'Quagmire Triplets', Isadora and Duncan (the third triplet, Quigley, is missing). However, Olaf is also eager to steal the Quagmire fortune, and the triplets are kidnapped - leaving a cryptic message, 'V.F.D.'


 * In The Ersatz Elevator, the Baudelaires move to Esme and Jerome Squalor's penthouse apartment. Jerome is kind but ineffectual; Esme is interested only in the latest fashions. When Olaf arrives, the Baudelaires try to rescue the Quagmires, but lose them again. Esme turns out to be evil and escapes with Count Olaf.


 * From this point, the series breaks away from the formula followed by the first six books as the Baudelaires set out in an attempt to find the Quagmires and find out the meaning of "V.F.D.", leading them into a gradually unfolding conspiracy, while fleeing authorities accusing them of murder.


 * To do:


 * The Vile Village
 * The Hostile Hospital
 * The Carnivorous Carnival
 * The Slippery Slope
 * The Grim Grotto

Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events (movie)
This page links to that page. That page is a redirect to this page. Unbelievable! The movie surely deserves its own page. Brianjd 07:25, 2004 Dec 17 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's why I left the link to it when I cleaned up this page. No-one has written it yet though. Care to make a stub? &#8212;Rory &#9786; 13:30, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)
 * Stub begun. Nicked the cast list from IMDB and added minor details. Feel free to expand. Lee M 03:46, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Nice job whoever made the movie page what it is now. LordMooCow 09:59, 3 July 2005 (GMT+10)

Trademarks
There is the secret of Olaf's tattooed ankle and the organization V.F.D.

So is Olaf a deletionist, then? 82.92.119.11 11:56, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I've changed the article heading "Trademarks" to "Recurring themes". Perhaps there's a yet better way to word it, but I doubt they are registered as trademarks. -- Infrogmation 20:27, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Removed anonymous edits
I share the anon's enthusiasm for SoUE, but this isn't a review site - judgements like "an oustandingly good page turner" aren't appropriate here. Plot summaries of the individual books should probably go on those individual pages, preferably with a spoiler tag. --Calair 22:58, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Literary and historical references
Hi, Wikipedia newb here...I think that a list of ASUE's many literary and historical references is in order...I've referred to it over on Esmé Squalor, but there are many more (the Baudelaires themselves; the Queequeg; all those poets in Grim Grotto; Vice Principal Nero - a violinist, by the way, which makes it more significant; the Poes - Edgar and Albert; Georgina Orwell...I could go on). Let's try pursuing this, eh? Oh, and by the bye, this is a great resource, or jumping-off point, or something... -IvanP
 * That page is very interesting&mdash;I particularly enjoyed th'explanations of Sunny's proclamations of "Busheney!" and "Etartsigam!", which I'd entirely missed. Still, he is also lists many alternative ideas that may very well not be references. [This page] is a bit more concise about it, tho left me wanting more.--Signor Giuseppe 21:43, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Guardians
I had earlier written that Uncle Monty was th'only exception the Baudelaires' long history of ineffectual guardians. Recently Hector found himself as an exception as well, but his skiddishness in the face of the village elders is basically a carbon copy of Jerome Squallor (who was afraid of confrontations, mostly with Esmé) and Charles (who didn't want to upset SIR). They all follow in the mold of Aunt Josephine who was, of course, afraid of everything. SIR and the elders themselves just weren't very nice, while Count O and Esmé themselves actively sought the Baudelaires' harm. Uncle Monty, on th'other hand, was kind and caring, and was even suspicious of Olaf's disguise, tho ultimately not for the right reasons. Still, he's th'only exception to the rule.--Signor Giuseppe 20:42, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Task complete
I have added a page on Aunt Josephine!

Snicket's sister? Ah, inbreeding
I removed the line about "Beatrice is Snicket's sister." It had no punctuation, and since it was never mentioned in that less-than-awesome bad example of the series we call the movie, I assume it to be a subliminal message.

...she's Fiona's mom, man. --Doug teh H-Nut


 * I think that what we, in the trade, call vandalism. Sad, but it happens. --Celestianpower hab 22:02, 18 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Yep. Subliminal vandalism, mind you. But vandalism. --Doug teh H-Nut 3:28 PM EST Monday, Sept. 19

I've finnaly figured it out! Beatrice was actually C.M. Kornbluth's (The Slippery Slope, U.K. Version, Chapter Nine,Page 193) wife! --Mathematical 16:18, 6 May 2006 (UTC) Oh yeah!

Libraries
In at least 10 of the SOUE books (I'm in the middle of the 11th, so I wouldn't know about it), their is at least on library used by the orphans, and a list should be added to the artical. --Wack'd About Wiki 03:17, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

A Wiki of Unfortunate Events
There is now a Wikicity for all things Lemony Snicket. We are currently working on very few articles and very few editors so any help would be appreciated and we hope to see you there! --Cel e stianpower hablamé 20:53, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

We need something to distinguish the Wikicity entries from the Wikipedia. I've been looking at the List of thirteens thinking TheMadBaron may be right in what he said on the discussion page, that information like that doesn't belong in the Wikipedia (especially some of the newer thirteens that look more like chance.) But it could very much belong in the Wikicity, which is more KB type articles. What do you think?--JCoug 21:55, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

"strange and specific similes"
Interesting - can we have an example? TheMadBaron 15:25, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Penultimate Peril
If no one minds, I've deleted a couple of questions answered in PP:


 * Who was the man with no hair and the woman with no beard? Corrupt Judges
 * Who is the father of Kit Snickett's baby? Dewey Denuoument

Also, is is save to say the father of the orphans is named Bertrand?

Which orphans do you mean, my good sir? I do believe there are quite a few in this series. --Doug teh H-Nut 03:12, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

The Baudelaire orphans father is in fact, Bertrand Baudelaire.

Is this article accurate?
Maybe I'm grabing at smoke, but themes are very obvious, especially in the later books (The Hook-Handed Man actually says one outright in Book 11 and the Baudelaires' pleading with Count Olaf in Book 12 stresses it). This article, however, says there are no moral lessons in the book even though the underlying struggle is entirely about morals.

Also, most of the questions in the question section weren't even hinted at in the story. Sure, we could ask a million questions about connections that might be, but there's no hint of Mr. Poe being in VFD, for example. Also, in the section obove mine the editor says "Who is the father of Kit Snickett's baby? Dewey Denuoument." I don't recall that being said ever. -Anonymous reader, 10/22/05

It is never said outright, but Dewey Denouement's last word is "Kit", and Lemony says that he left "the woman he loved pregnant and distraught." They also share quite a few of the same lines. --Doug teh H-Nut 03:08, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Answering one more of those questions
There is every chance in the world that this is wrong, but it's in the discussion page so what's it matter. I've actually said it above, and I'll say it again. Fiona and Fernald's parents are Beatrice and Lemony. Think about it -


 * Beatrice and Lemony were together. Let's assume it was long enough to have kids. We'll say two, but it was more than likely three.
 * Beatrice and Lemony split up.
 * Beatrice marries Widdershins. Why? I have no idea.
 * Beatrice is killed. Widdershins says it was a manatee accident, though Snicket says it wasn't. Well, if it wasn't manatees, one of the other zillion things it could be is arson.

There's not a lot of evidence, but there's nothing to prove it wrong...to my current knowledge. --Doug teh H-Nut 03:08, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * And this isn't a place for specualation, it's a place for supported information (something that isn't very easy to find in this series, though). Personally, I think that (unless when he's speaking of his sister in Book 9 he actually says Kit, I need to check) Lemony is probably Kit Snicket's daughter.  The Baudelaires could save her life or something while she's pregnant with him and that's why he loves them.  Just thinkin'


 * I would say the article isn't for speculation, but the discussion page is well, for discussion. And it does have the least bit of speculation to back it up. (SPOILER) Did we have any evidence that Mr. and Mrs. Baudelaire killed Olaf's parents with poison darts? No. Did we see it coming? No. And then it came in out of nowhere in that really awesome group of pages I think we refer to as "The Penultimate Peril, Chapter 12". Well, it had been built up to, but still. And while your theory could have a small bit of weight, but I believe Jacques and Lemony corresponded with letters calling each other "brother" in the LSUA. Besides, I have every reason to believe Lemony Snicket himself is the man that offered the Baudelaires a ride in TPP. And, then, there's the Snicket file. "In photographs and each public place, Snicket rarely shows his face." Baud parents, Jacques, Lemony. And then there's the song, which refers to his two siblings, and naturally they were just a tad older (Kit and Jacques are older than Lemony, and twins to boot.) Besides, V.F.D. likes sets of threes and everyone here knows it. So your theory's possible, but...not likely. Then again, neither is mine, really, but hey. This is Snicket we're dealing with. (Also, the idea of an unborn baby in danger is just a little dark for a so-called "children's" book, wouldn't you say? Darker than falling into saws, arson, and getting shot with a harpoon gun.) --Doug teh H-Nut 12:43, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Lemony Snicket seems to be against smoking in The Slippery Slope, so I doubt the man with the cigarette is Lemony. On an almost unrelated point, at the start of chapter 5(Who is Beatrice?) of the autobiography, there is a photo of a woman with the caption: Why was this actress replaced after only 3 performances. It then says that Lemony's fiance, who we know is Beatrice, was replaced by Esmé. Does this mean that the photo of her and similar on pages 29 & 105 are Beatrice?  smurray   in   chester (User), (Talk) 17:24, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Aye, that would be the rub, would it not? But alas, if you read carefully, you'd see that Snicket says nothing about being against smoking. Esme does, but then decides they're in and decides she likes them anyway. (There's no way to know about the photos, but it could be. After all, as Duchess R says she is "...content, and yet how flammable.") --Doug teh H-Nut 20:09, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd say Lemony must be Kit and Jacques' brother, because in The Vile Village someone says "Jacques Snicket" and Klaus (?) replies "Isn't he the brother of the man who..." So they have a brother, who presumably is Lemony. This would also fit the sequential letters used by the Denouement triplets (D-E-F) with J-K-L for the Snicket triplets. EamonnPKeane 20:45, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Merge
Following a link from the V.F.D. article, I created Dr. Gustav Sebald. I then found later that both Dr Sebald and Gustav Sebald exist, and need to be merged. I put a merge message on Dr. Gustav Sebald, but I don't know what to move into what. Any suggestions? smurray  in   chester (User), (Talk) 17:19, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, merge into Gustav Sebald as that's his real name.


 * I've merged Dr Sebald and Dr. Gustav Sebald with [Gustav Sebald]], and redirected. There seems to be a difference of opinion (different versions of the character box) as to where Sebald makes his first appearance.... The Reptile Room (in film) or Lemony Snicket: The Unauthorized Autobiography. Please verify. TheMadBaron 18:35, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

"The Recurring Themes"
I thought I should run this past the Wikipedia ASUE community before I go editing 12 articles - would anybody mind if I changed "The Recurring Themes" headings on all the book articles to something else? I'm not sure what yet.... maybe just "Cover" or "Appearance" (better suggestions are welcome). I understand what's intended here, but "Recurring Themes" is misleading, as the "themes" covered aren't what would normally be understood by the term in the context of a series of novels; "themes" in this context would normally refer to the content of the text, and since each cover is different, the details don't really recur. TheMadBaron 16:36, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Hugo the hunchback
I've just come across an article, Hugo the hunchback, from Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortnate Events, which (if useful) will need to be renamed and incorporated here. Just so you know.. - N (talk) 16:52, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

The sugar bowl (A Series of Unfortunate Events)
Much as I hate to add to an already long list of ASUE articles, I think there might be an argument for a piece about the sugar bowl. It's appears to be a central theme, and some references make no sense without context. (Eg: "The main entryway has one bare light hanging from the ceiling, a stuffed lion's head nailed to the wall, and a bowl of apple cores on a small wooden table. This is noted to be the sugar bowl." from Count Olaf's Castle

TheMadBaron 12:37, 19 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I was thinking of writing an article about it previously. The problem is that every single bowl that appears in the series will be listed as 'possible sugar bowls'. Still, the 'Vessel For Disaccharides' probably does deserve an article. How about The sugar bowl (A Series of Unfortunate Events? smurray  in   chester  ( User ), ( Ho Ho Ho! ) 12:43, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, that was why I headed this "The sugar bowl (A Series of Unfortunate Events)", but up until now, I had no idea what "Vessel For Disaccharides" referred to.... now I think Vessel For Disaccharides would be a better title.... we could link it to the entry on List of VFDs, and point all other references to the sugar bowl to it. TheMadBaron 12:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree there should be a sugar bowl article, but not that it should be called Vessel For Disaccharides - the title should be what the subject of the article is normally referred to as (probably The sugar bowl (A Series of Unfortunate Events)), since in the books it is normally referred to as the sugar bowl. Of course, that could change with the final instalment, but the article can be renamed when Book the Thirteenth comes out. CLW 13:18, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I think Vessel For Disaccharides would be a good redirect, but it is only mentioned briefly, and as a title, would make the article seem more difficult and scientific than Sugar Bowl (ASOUE). And like CLW says, if Sugar Bowl is inadequate, we can move it. The other (nitpicky, I know) question is should it be Sugar Bowl or The Sugar Bowl? smurray  in   chester  ( User ), ( Ho Ho Ho! ) 17:16, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

According to Naming Conventions, the "the" should be dropped. --Cel e stianpower háblame 18:10, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay, I concur with your reasoning. Scrap the Vessel For Disaccharides. (Shame, though.) The would usually be dropped, unless it's an essential part of a title, and I don't think this counts. Go with Sugar bowl (A Series of Unfortunate Events), then? TheMadBaron 18:16, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Could we not just expand the section ofg V.F.D.? --Cel e stianpower háblame 18:30, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I created a article just before I noticed your comment. I think the item is a fairly major plot-element, and as such probably could have its own article. Still, the article is pretty 'stubby'. Incidently, is there an ASOUE-stub template? smurray  in   chester  ( User ), ( Ho Ho Ho! ) 18:37, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I think that V.F.D. should be about the organisation, and not about a sugar bowl at all, and the List of VFDs should include descriptions, but not of the length that Smurrayinchester has already written at Sugar bowl (ASUE). The sugar bowl section of V.F.D. should probably be summarised and moved to Sugar bowl (ASUE) at this point. I'm sure that this stub can be expanded to a worthwhile article, and that this is the way to go. TheMadBaron 19:05, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Esmé and Esmé Squalor
We have two, identical (apart from a small formating difference) articles at Esmé and Esmé Squalor! I've turned Esmé into a redirect of Esmé Squalor. smurray  in   chester  ( User ), ( Ho Ho Ho! ) 17:58, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject
ANOUNCEMENT: A new WikiProject on A Series of Unfortunate Events has been launched. Please see it here!!! --Cel e stianpower háblame 19:47, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I know this is off-article, but....
...I need help! What has happened to www.unfortunateevents.com and its forum? I can't believe it could just disappear with all its members! Damn Christmas, I should have logged on. --159.134.55.212 00:15, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * unfortunateevents.com was the UK equivalent of lemonysnicket.com. Checking my UK copy of Penultimate Peril, it doesn't mention unfortunateevents.com. I guess they decided that there was no point running both, and they decided to just let the license expire. smurray  inchester ( User ), ( Talk ) 10:59, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I had posted an article on it

And it was deleted...

Reposting.

Please do not instantly delete it this time...


 * It was deleted because it was unencyclopedic and didn't belong here. CLW 11:31, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Where does it belong? It's very encyclopedic...

No point in running both? That's terrible. It had about 500 members, and most of us didn't like www.lemonysnicket.com. This is unfair. --86.43.64.115 12:56, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

CLW - you need an attitutude adjusment

UE was the only forum! Unsigned comment and attack by User:HighwayCello


 * If anyone wants to form their own opinion on whether or not I need an "attitutude adjusment" (sic), please check User:HighwayCello's edit history... CLW 19:43, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Cello, Where is the "UE Hideaway" you mentioned in your deleted edit?--Occono 15:24, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Okay, the site is back now. Pheweee. Somebody hug me.--Occono 15:39, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh dear lord!

Get a grip!

UE was the only forum...

Not an attack

Following me and deleting all i do without explanation is an attack


 * If the above two lines are aimed at me, this isn't the place to discuss it. Sound off on my talk page if you still don't agree with my actions - not here. CLW 17:27, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Beatrice
Isn't Beatrice the Baudelaires' mother? In the Ersatz Elevator, when Esme Squalor threw the children back down the shaft, said that she wanted to take something from Beatrice, the way Beatrice took something from her (most likely the sugar bowl). --Radaar 04:29, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

69.138.229.246 01:34, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * There is not enough evidence to say one way or the other, but it is possible, and also provides us with a reason why Beatrice was unable to marry Lemony.

I posted this on UnfortunateEvents.com a while ago. It's sums up all we know about whether Beautrice was the Baudelair's mother or not;

Beatrice IS Mrs. Baudelair
 * They both died in a fire.
 * Both of them were married but not to Lemony Snicket.
 * That would be the connection between Snicket and Baudelair, seeing that Beatrice was the reason the series was started in the first place.
 * Mrs. Baudelaire could whistle Mozart's Symphony No. 14. Beatrice could do the same.
 * "The Hostile Hospital," when Klaus and Sunny have to descramble the anagrammatical patient names to find Violet, one of the names, "Carrie E. Abelabudite," could be rearranged to spell out "Beatrice Baudelaire."
 * Both Beatrice's last name and Mrs. Baudelair's first have not been confirmed.

Beatrice IS NOT Mrs. Baudelair
 * They firers that killed them were at different times of the day.
 * Whistling was a family characteristic, and possibly a Red Herring.
 * Another anagram from the hospital list translates to Red Herring.
 * Esme' mentioned that Beatrice stole the sugar bowl in front of the siblings twice, and yet none of them said anything along the lines of "...our mother...?" or "I can't see why our Mom would sit at a table with you in the first place, you outlaw!"
 * A passage in "The Grim Grotto," mentions "the Baudelaire parents" and "the woman [who Lemony Snicket] loved" as separate entities. --71.109.37.168 23:32, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

VFD Merge
Discussion about the suggested merge is on the V.F.D. talk page. smurray  inch   e  ster  ( User ), ( Talk ) 21:57, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Opening line
I removed the play on Snicket's writing style. Though this is clever enough, self-referential parodies do not belong at Wikipedia. Atropos 04:08, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

You might want to know this
I checked Snicket's site and found this out.

According to a puzzle I found, secret #13 about Snicket is "he is finished", but I don't know if he was referring to himself. Random the Scrambled 17:46, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

And it is alleged that Count Olaf took over the site!

nevermind... He just put up a redirect with a link to the real site that says "DON'T CLICK HERE OR ELSE!".

The Beatrice Letters?
Those of you who might receive HarperCollin's AuthorTracker would've gotten an April's Fools email today. While it can be for the most part dismissed as non-canonical, it DID mention a book called "The Beatrice Letters" to be released in September, and considering how it reconfirmed B13's release date as October 13th, TBL might be an actual legit book.

The quote, in full;

"Mr. Snicket also revealed that The Beatrice Letters, a collection of personal letters which will be published in September, is full of funny poems and doodles of unicorns." --198.161.102.118 03:48, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's legit. There's even an article for it linked in the information box at the bottom of the page.  You might want to look it up on B&N, as that and other sources have quite a bit of information on it.

Setting
The article describes the books as taking place in a "fantasy world." Not so! The Wide Window makes a specific reference to the US Postal Service. I would hazard a guess that the series takes place either in England or France, with most signs pointing to England (Justice Strauss' title, a marshy area on a road outside the City pointing to Essex as the setting for The Reptile Room &c.).
 * There are background references in the books that indicate the world they're set in has some major divergences from ours. The Unauthorized Autobiography refers to the Duchess of Winnipeg, for example. Strephon 00:00, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Gernre
....CHILDREN'S book series? 216.37.227.202 00:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC) This is DEFINITELY a children's book series.--Lbr123 02:03, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Pictures?
Would Pictures liven this article up? Like the Logo for the books (or film) User:zeldamaster3 20:05 22June 2006 (UTC)
 * We can't use fair use images for livening up. --Philosophus T 00:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Edits 6 Aug
Just edited the following:


 * Is Lemony Snicket that mysterious cigarette man in TPP? This didn't need to be on the list twice.
 * Despite the death of their parents and the "series of unfortunate events" they have endured, the Baudelaires seem to suffer few psychological effects. However, in The Penultimate Peril they did begin to wonder if their actions made them treacherous or not. This was changed in the film. This sounds like TPP was among the books the film was based on, which it wasn't. 213.249.135.36 20:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, someone's put the duplicated question back. Whoever's doing this, it's already on the list! Just look a few places up! 213.249.135.36 19:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Fan sites
To the anon users who keep on adding their amateurish freewebs pages onto the links...stop. I hope I don't need to explain that they have no place on the article nor do they add anything.--CyberGhostface 14:46, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

The Vile Videos
The first of the three were just put on Snicket's Site. It's known as "12 Books in 120 Seconds" and should be put up here.

I had a question on it, though. When 'Lemony Snicket' (Tim Curry) quotes, "...In fact the phrase, 'Physical Education,' like the phrases 'Frozen Fish,' 'Fashion Statement,' or 'Salad Bar,' takes one perfectly pleasant word and spoils everything by placing it alongside a distinctly unpleasent one," what do the initials being erased (TCB) under Lemony Snicket stand for, if anything? That should be likewise noted, either way. --71.109.37.168 17:44, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Literary Awards
Shouldn't this page list the awards that the series and individual books have won? I'm sure they're won something. Clamster5 21:37, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If you can find any then by all means post it.--CyberGhostface 21:52, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

How much time elapses?
..between books one and 12 overall? Has anyone tracked it so I don't have to? Will post if I take the time to find out, but it seems to me that each individual book is never more than a couple of weeks in 'realtime' and the books are absolutely sequential, so the whole series must occur in substantially less than a year. Does that sound right to others? Richardjames444 23:25, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I think you may have over estimated, as books 8-12 all take places in just days. I'm pretty sure a few other books took place only a few days time too. I've read how much time elapses article on a fansite that has closed now, but you can probably find another one somewhere if you really wanted it added to the article.-Pacaman 17:56, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Timeline
In an interview with Disney adventures magazine, Snicket said that the books take place in the year of the dog.


 * The series spans over at least two years, actually. Anyway, there have been many years of the dog in the last hundred years, so it doesn't exactly narrow it down. Mrmoocow 21:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

It is almost impossible to tell exactly when the series takes place. The clothes the characters wear and some of the technology (especially in the unauthorized autobiography) are 1920s yet Prufrock Prep has an advanced computer. In the Penultimate Peril, Kit Snicket quotes Martin Luther King Jr. from a speech he made in 1964. The play La Forza del Destino was first performed in 1862. It may have gone on longer or have been re-performed.

One interesting fact is that the year of the dog was 2006 (one of them). That was when the entire series was finished and when Snicket made that interview with Disney Adventures. I'm guessing that the series takes place in modern times.


 * My view is that the series doesn't take place in any specific time (or in any specific real place), so that Handler could bring in whatever technology he thought was appropriate to the specific plotline or joke.
 * I agree. I reckon it takes place in an alternate reality to our own. Think about it: it is home to a whole range of places that certainly do not exist in our world and has technology from all over the century. It can't be set in modern times (the styles of architecture, dress and technology are wrong) and it can't be set sooner (technology is too advanced).


 * That's impossible, because Sunny is still only one in the final book, and only Klaus actually has his birthday during the duration of the series.

Yoda921 00:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)Yoda

Violet has her birthday in The Grim Grotto.

Also, I would estimate Sunny to be about two, as Beatrice is almost one. ChunkyKong12345 02:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Regarding Sunny's age: She was born less than two years before The Reptile Room (the Baudelaires think back in that book to what they were doing two years ago, and Sunny notes that she hadn't been born at the time, although the text could be read as indicating that Mrs. Baudelaire was pregnant with her). Since Sunny never had an obvious birthday in the series (likely so Handler didn't have to state her age, as that'd lead to all sorts of inconsistencies with her level of development), then by the end of Chapter Fourteen she definitely can't be four years old.

Questions
What happened to the list of thirteens page? I thought I saw it recently. Could the "Other" Section on the template be further divided? The movie and video game seem too much of important and different things to be clumped up with a few things that probably would be better organized in a "V.F.D." section. Also, shouldn't the Queequeq (and possibly the Prospero) be under places?-Pacaman 17:46, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The List of thirteens recently came up on articles for deletion for the second time, and very few people came to its defense. It vanished shortly afterwards, so I've been removing any links I come across. Personally, I'm neutral as to whether the page should exist or not - I was convinced by the argument on the talk page to the effect that the use of 13 is a deliberate device in the series (I haven't read it), but I found the article itself to be lacking direction. I think it might be a good idea to incorporate examples of the theme somewhere in the main ASUE article, if it can be done well, and if it doesn't come to dominate an already overly inflated piece.


 * I copied the list, in anticipation its demise, and reproduce it here for editors' information. I should probably advise our less experienced editors that it would be a really bad idea to attempt to recreate the deleted article as was.


 * List follows. TheMadBaron 19:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Thirteen, the number of misfortune, is a commonly reoccurring number in A Series of Unfortunate Events by Lemony Snicket. This is a list of the occurrences of the number 13.

Occurrences


 * Number of chapters in each book
 * Number of books in series
 * Number of owners of Lemony Snicket's map (The Ersatz Elevator, chapter 11)
 * Number of pages in the Snicket File, and the number of the only one that the Baudelaires were able to obtain
 * Number of letters in the following names: Lemony Snicket (pen name), Daniel Handler (author), Brett Helquist (artist), HarperCollins (publisher), Alison Donalty (cover design), Meredith Heuer (photographer), Jerome Squalor (character)
 * Number of letters in the names of several hospital patients in The Hostile Hospital, chapter 9: Lisa N. Lootnday, Linda Rhaldeen, Ed Valiantbrue, Monty Kensicle, Eriq Bluthetts, Ruth Dercroump. Some of these are anagrams of the above names.
 * Age of Klaus Baudelaire from The Vile Village onwards
 * Possible age of Quigley, Duncan and Isadora Quagmire (in The Austere Academy, Duncan and Isadora are described as older than Klaus, who was 12, and younger than Violet, who was 14)
 * Number of letters in the following book titles (not including "The"): The Miserable Mill, The Slippery Slope
 * Number of letters in the following book titles (including "The"): The Wide Window and The Grim Grotto
 * Number of chapters in Dr. Orwell's "Advanced Ocular Science"
 * The chapter "Visitable Fungal Ditches" (note the initials V.F.D.) in Fiona's mycological book is chapter number 39, a multiple of 13.
 * The map including Curdled Cave (The Wide Window) in the Atlas of Lake Lacrhymose is on page 104, a multiple of 13.
 * The number of characters in "667 Dark Avenue"
 * The amount of letters in "Very Fresh Dill" (see: Verbal Fridge Dialogue)
 * Amount of letters (including "The") in "The Snow Scouts"


 * The scheduled release date (Friday, October 13th) of the 13th book.


 * Thanks! I found the same article on A Wiki of Unfortunate Events, I was just wondering what happened here on Wikipedia. Should I just go ahead and change the menu for ASUE, and see if anyone reverts it?-Pacaman 20:52, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I added a short paragraph on thirteen. "The number regarded as unlucky in many clutures, 13, appears in the series a number of times. The most significant appearences are the thirteen books in the series and the thirteen chapters in each book." -Pacaman 21:00, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Table
Could somebody please fix up that table? It's ugly, and it stretches the page. Removing the pointless fields "Library" and "Snicket's letter at end" would help a lot. TheMadBaron 19:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe it should just be moved to a seperate article, so people who want to see all these facts quickly can go there to check. Also, the field "Library" isn't pointless, the different library encountered is usually a major part of each book.Pacaman 20:07, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I did the change I just mentioned and created the page Summary of novels in A Series of Unfortunate Events, but someone readded the table and removed my link. I'd change it back, but I'd rather not be involved in an edit war. Pacaman 20:54, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Reverts
I wish people wouldn't revert without explanation. I left a note on this discussion page in reply to the table explaining I was moving it to Summary of novels in A Series of Unfortunate Events. My edit was reverted. I also made a change to the ASUE template by splitting up the other section into more organized parts, as well as leaving a note on the discussion, and it was reverted. Why were they reverted? Pacaman 21:44, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * They seem to be back now... maybe my computer was just acting wierd.Pacaman 21:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Themes
The themes section seems kind of limited.

One theme that I've noticed is the gradual loss of clarity between good and evil. I think this could even be the most outstanding theme in the books... as the series progresses, right up to the very end, the Baudelaires increasingly doubt their beliefs about who and what is noble and who and what is wicked. They reflect more and more about the tradgedy they themselves have caused, and upon how there is always a bigger picture of what seemed terrible at first. It seems like there's a lot of almost explicit symbolism that nothing is either black or white, as the Baudelaires lose their innocence all the way up to the conclusion. Did anyone else notice this as a theme? 65.96.209.236 01:59, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I did. I tried to add something about it, but it was deleted. Also, Lemony Snicket seems to have very little patience for charcters who see things in black and white and are unwilling to listen to other's points of veiw. (anon)

The theme of moral relativism is well represented now. I added a reference to Snicket's allusion to the biblical Fall. I found that scene at the end of chapter 12 in "The End" to be chilling. Snicket seems to use the snake and apple to punctuate his theme that survival may be the highest ethic. Ronstew 16:18, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

All of your ideas seem good. As for you, anon, you should write your idea again and should question anyone who tries to delete it. I'm going to put in more ideas. Wolfdog 23:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Literary Allusions
This is a suggestion for all the entries in the Series of Unfortunate Events. All the books in the series contain tons of great literary allusions, such as the names of all the patients in the Hostile Hospital or castaways in The End, as well as catches of poetry, etc. However, I believe The End is the only entry that contains a comprehensive section of literaty allusions. Perhaps we should start to construct similar sections in the entries on the 12 other books. I will pitch in, maybe even start a couple sections in entries on the books I remember best, but I'm sure there are a lot that other allusions other people can provide that I forgot or didn't catch in the first place.

Please sign your name with four tildes (~) on talk pages. Thanks. Clamster5 23:43, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Separating Themes and Literary Allusions
Of course many of Handler's themes are expressed in his choice of character and place names. But I think Literary Allusions deserve their own section in this article. That will decrease the amount of interpretation - original research - in the Themes section. Ronstew 15:14, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Unanswered Questions
I propose that this section be removed. It is hard to maintain as there are in infinite number of unanswered questions in the series. (What is the bald man's favorite color?, What is Violet's middle name?, Does Lemony Snicket enjoy cashews?, What is Klaus's favorite book?, What are Edgar and Albert Poe's grades in school? etc.) Also, this section is prone to edits by unregistered/new users who put in questions that either are answered fully or partially already or are not of much importance to the series. If no one disagrees, I'll take out the section in a few days. Clamster5 00:01, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I removed the section. Clamster5 12:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the section should be a seperate article or on the page for The End. --Pacaman! 17:46, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

In The End, most of the unanswered questions are in fact answered. For instance, we can assume that the Quagmires drowned, none of the Baudelaire parents are alive, VFD stands for volunteer fire department, and that there is a microphone in the sugar bowl. Though Snicket does not directly state this, re-reading the entire series and the autobiography may help to answer these questions. Snicket is probably not going to write a second series, due to the fact that most of the questions in the series are answered.

J.D.Salinger/J.S.Salinger
I deleted comments about the use of the initials "J.S. referrring to Salinger, whose initials had immediately previously been (correctly) given as J.S. I forgot to add a comment to the edit. MrDemeanour

Shouldn't there be...
As there is a "recurring themes" tag on the "related books" articles, which says wheteher or not there is an "ex libris" and other things in the book, shouldn't this be on the normal books pages as well?


 * It is now, apparently.--Orthologist 20:27, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Handler or Snicket?
It is important to remember that Lemony Snicket is not merely a pseudonym for Daniel Handler. Snicket is a character in the books, with his own interests, motivations, agenda, prejudices and style. Frankly, I think that all the related articles should be examined and edited with that in mind. Ronstew 15:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Box Sets
shouldn't the box-set names be included ,with a smaple picture of what they might look like? (The Compelte Wreck has a good cover). also, there are bigger images for TPP (US) and TE (UK), and clearer pictures for TEE (US) and TEE (UK) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.1.6.209 (talk) 01:49, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

Rewriting Daniel Handler's writing style
Currently the information in this section doesn't qualify here and instead only allusion. It needs expansion. Snowynight 15:33, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Motifs
There needs to be a section on motifs. I've never read anything so saturated with recurrent themes and literary devices that have symbolic significance. 65.96.209.236 21:50, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The problem with adding symbolism to an article is that it is original research. (WP:NOT). A reader's interpretation of a literary work is merely biased opinion.-- E d  ¿Cómo estás? 04:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Writing down the plot of the books is original research, too, as you have to have read the books to verify it. It's no arcane secret that there are words and phrases that get repeated multiple times throughout each book. An interpretation of the significance of those motifs might be original research, but I don't believe that it would be original research merely to list them. The End manages it.


 * It shouldn't be that hard to find motifs in published sources. Superm401 - Talk 06:29, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I started it off with disguises. Superm401 - Talk 06:43, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Mrmoocow removed the section without even an edit summary; I've replaced it. Superm401 - Talk 07:02, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sure you meant no harm by adding in the motifs section, but currently the ASUE project is trying to cut down on the amount of speculation and original research on ASUE related pages. Although the statements are accurate and fairly sourced, simply having a "motifs" section opens the door to speculation, especially from new or unregistered users. This page used to have a section called "Unanswered Questions" which was removed because, although parts of it were valid, almost daily, things that were irrelevant, unnecesary or pure speculation were added. That is proabably whats going to happen to the motifs section. Clamster 15:25, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That's not an acceptable reason. You don't remove sourced information because someone could add unsourced information.  I have this page on my watchlist, and will help remove original research and unsourced speculation.  However, you mustn't remove valid and relevant information with citations. Superm401 - Talk 22:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Evil man
As much as I agree that Olaf is an evil man, calling him as so is still somewhat opinionated. Wouldn't it be better to say 'in the author's words, Count Olaf is an evil man'? Mrmoocow 06:56, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Better still to show that he is portrayed as evil, giving examples (preferably ones described in external reviews). Superm401 - Talk 06:28, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

AID
Don't post the Article Improvement drive to the article; it's only supposed to be on talk. Superm401 - Talk 06:28, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

ASUE
Please, who removed the box at the bottom of the page that links to other ASOUE pages? Uioh 02:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It was removed in one of the vandal edits. I've replaced it. It can be put onto a page using the coding Clamster 02:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

First-person or third-person?
I've never been able to figure out which these books should be considered as. To the best of my knowledge, they're unique in all literature. Do any other books have an essentially omniscient narrator with a clearly defined personality, background, and indirect role in the story, but who nevertheless never directly affects the plot? Penultimate Peril aside, that is, and I don't think that counts. --Shay Guy 15:42, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

~Actually, in the study of literature, you consider the author as always being separate from the narrator. Even though the narrator is more fully fleshed out in these books (and no, it isn't unique in literature - Sheridan Le Fanu's In a Glass Darkly use a similar technique) it's still third person, since Snicket isn't one of the main characters. --Vampire Hermes 15th Jan.


 * I'm not sure if the events of the books would have come about if Lemony had never existed, though; he knew many of the backstory characters in their youth, and he's the one who stole the sugar bowl (although that arguably only impacts on Esmé-related plots). I'd still call them third-person, though, as the books aren't about Lemony, he's just telling the story.


 * Yes, but he sometimes stop narrating to mention incidents from his life in first person. My point is, the series is nor first-person, neither third-person. It constantly switches, so it's both.--Orthologist 19:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Err, I thought this book was second person, like Sherlock Holmes (Watson narrates). Mrmoocow 22:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Second person narrative is when the main character is addressed as "you". Clamster 00:51, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Movie shoot
I noticed that the movie section says this: "Also, Silberling is quite unhappy that the filming process took seven months instead of the seven weeks in which he claimed he could shoot the movie." This is taken from an external article that got its facts wrong. In the original interview, Silberling said it was a very taxing 7-month shoot for him, and that he's not sure he'll be on the second movie, because he'd rather make a more intimate movie that wouldn't take more than 7 weeks to shoot. He never said he would make ASOUE2 in 7 weeks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.70.12.179 (talk) 10:26, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

Age Range
It would be nice to have the expected age range for reading the books included. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.145.59.33 (talk • contribs).


 * Expected by who? This would definitely need a source. Superm401 - Talk 02:21, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The publishers, HarperCollins/Children's, have them set for ages "10 & Up", but I generally see them in 9-12 sections in bookstores.

Film
I think the 'Film' section should be moved to a different article. --Orthologist 17:54, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It is a little long. The cast could be cut down to the bare bones, and the section on the sequel could probably be trimmed and moved to the main article. Or removed entirely, given how long it's been. The section on the setting could be cut down a bit.


 * The film has its own article, Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events. The section could be trimmed down a little. Clamster 18:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

2Nd series
I think that they should make a second series. maybe reveal some secrets. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.131.55.247 (talk) 00:51, 17 February 2007 (UTC).


 * See WP:CRYSTAL. This is speculation, and not even sourced. If there are speculations by notable persons we can include them, but we can't speculate ourselves.--Orthologist 18:57, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Scholarly sources
The forthcoming March issue of PMLA (Volume 122, issue 2) will have an article by Laurie Langbauer entitled "The Ethics and Practice of Lemony Snicket: Adolescence and Generation X." Awadewit 03:46, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Will this article be available online? Clamster 01:19, 27 March 2007 (UTC)