Talk:A Simple Desultory Philippic (or How I Was Robert McNamara'd into Submission)

Like other songs similar to this, unfortunately we can't post the lyrics verbatim and wiki-link all the relevant words, as it would be a copyright violation. --Interiot 22:53, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure how this song is "poking fun at all things British" when the bulk of the references in both versions are American. ..


 * Agree, he's poking fun at Dylan - Dylan was standing at the bar in a club where Simon was performing and a friend made him laugh while he was looking at Simon. Simon took it the wrong way, and thought he was laughing at him, so this song and the other version of it is Simon "getting his own back". Vera, Chuck &amp; Dave (talk) 17:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Even if the bar incident had actually happened (and it sounds apocryphal), it wouldn't explain the song. Paul Simon seems to have considered himself more literate and literary than Bob Dylan, or than much of Dylan's audience at least, and at the same time he may have resented Bob Dylan's status as a cooler, hipper pop star. Anyway, Dylan is just one of many targets here, few of them British (the Beatles and its leader John Lennon, the Rolling Stones and its leader Mick Jagger, Diz Disley, Rolls-Royce--the Beatles and the Rolling Stones were, like Dylan, rivals of Simon and Garfunkel, to a considerable extent, anyway).TheScotch (talk) 09:29, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Bob Dylan and Dylan Thomas
Re: "Dylan Thomas was a poet whom [sic] Bob Dylan may have greatly admired, and there is a popular misconception that he took his last name from him.":

If all you know is a "may have", it's best to refrain entirely. From Dylan's Chronicles we now know more, however. Bob Dylan's "real" (original) name is Robert Allen Zimmerman. He was called Robert or Bobby, never Bob. When he came to New York to have a go at the big time, he first thought of calling himself Robert Allen, discarding the Zimmerman, but leaving the rest intact (think of the folk song "Bar'bra Allen"). He didn't have his own apartment in New York until sometime after he'd recorded his first record for Columbia, and in the the mean time he stayed at the homes of various friends and associates. He'd listen to their records and read their books and magazines. From a copy of Downbeat he came across the name Allyn (some jazz musician or other), and it occurred to him he might change Robert Allen to Robert Allyn. Then he read someone's Dylan Thomas volume, and decided to substitute Dylan for Allyn (notice how similar they are). It's not clear what happened to the Robert, but he rejected Bobby Dylan on the ground that it was too reminiscent of Bobby Darin (the man himself hugely popular at the time).

So, yes, Bob Dylan most certainly took his show business name from Dylan Thomas; it's not a "misconception". The misconception, the thing Bob Dylan had denied for several decades, is that he was thus attempting to honor Dylan Thomas because he "greatly admired" Dylan Thomas. No. He did like the poems he'd read at his friend's digs, but that had nothing to do with adopting the name. Adopting the name had to do with euphony and visual appeal, and he came to it by degrees. TheScotch (talk) 09:19, 27 May 2011 (UTC)