Talk:Abū ʿAbd Allāh Muḥammad ibn Saʿd ibn Mardanīsh

His origins
“He was a muwallad, a descendant of a native Iberian convert to Islam, and his last name is not of Arabic origin“

There is absolutely not a singe Islamic sources that claims he was a non Arab. every historical Islamic source from Iberia stated that he was an Arab from the tribe of Judham. hence he is called Al-Judhami (duh) Jasmkssnksskskskskz (talk) 22:03, 22 May 2022 (UTC)


 * We don't need an Islamic source (duh). The existence of tribal nisbas does not indicate actual ancestry. He is always admitted to be a muwallad. Srnec (talk) 01:47, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

You don't need primary Islamic sources to learn about a historical Islamic ruler? What sources concerning his life do we look for? Chinese sources? Who has "always admitted he is a muwallad"? you? Not a single primary Arabic source from Al-Andalus claimed that he was a muwallad; rather, they all mention his Arab ancestry. When writing panegyrics, Andalusi poets especially emphasize his Judhami ancestry. Tribal nisabs are more of an indication than stating that Ibn Mardanish must be a muwallad because the name "Mardansh" has Romance roots. As a result of this logical flow, Abd al-Rahman "Sanchuelo" most be a muwallad too? Jasmkssnksskskskskz (talk) 18:59, 12 August 2022 (UTC)


 * WP:RS. We generally don't interpret primary sources here. The Funj people claimed to be Banu Umayya. That doesn't make it true. Bosch-Vilá explicitly says that "it is certain that, despite his nisba, [he] was a muladí." It is easy to see that he is not the only source to call him a muwallad. Here we rate Bosch-Vilá higher than Jasmkssnksskskskskz. But perhaps you have other sources to back you up? Sources that dispute the logic of Bosch-Vilá et al.? Srnec (talk) 01:21, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Origin
Is it possible that Mardanish derived from Persian language مردانش؟ Alihd23 (talk) 13:02, 15 May 2023 (UTC)


 * If he was a muwallad, as all sources agree, then that would seem unlikely. But as far as I am aware, the meaning of "Mardanish" is not settled. None of Brill's reference works that I just checked mentions Persian. Srnec (talk) 14:37, 15 May 2023 (UTC)