Talk:Abbie Hoffman/Archive 1

Bipolar?
For the time being, I'm removing the statement that he was bipolar, as none of the references given says so. As always, this doesn't mean that I doubt the likelihood of his being bipolar, but, as it says on every edit page "Content must not violate any copyright and must be verifiable." I don't have time right this instant to look for a citable source myself. When someone finds one they can put this back, and also reinsert his name, with the source, on the List_of_people_believed_to_have_been_affected_by_bipolar_disorder. Dpbsmith (talk) 13:08, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Copyedit tag added Feb 06, 2006
This article appears pretty clean to me. I am wondering if this copyedit tag was added because of appearances of the word "fuck", since there is nothing else that really needs to be edited. I realize that fuck isn't a proper English word (considering politeness and etiquette), but copyedit tags are meant to alert copyeditors to the need to fix improper English spelling, grammar, usage, style and tone, and not objectionable phrases. (See: What Wikipedia is not) As distasteful and offensive as the word fuck is, it's usage is appropriate in this article as it is part of the "proper name" of a book written by the subject, himself. I will remove the copyedit tag, and revert the edited "f**k". Please explain the need to replace the tag, or re-edit "fuck", so other editors have a chance to understand the rationale for doing so. shabbs 09:59, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Abbie "Wright", the Luge Champ???
Anyone want to verify these changes, made feb 9? shabbs 00:53, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Interview with Chris Cerf, questions wanted
Got a question for Chris Cerf? Cerf worked with Hoffman at Random House during the 1960s. Post your questions before 25 April 2005. -- Zanimum 18:11, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Cut from main article
Cut from main article as it was located in the trailing whitespace:

John Sinclair was never a member of the rock group, The Zombies. Please refer to the provided link for The Zombie's members. John Sinclair was the vital force behind the White Panther Party, located in Ann Arbor, MI. He was arrested, convicted and sentenced to 9 1/2-10 years for giving two joints to an undercover police officer. Abbie Hoffman protested this fact at Woodstock as was removed from the stage by Pete Townshend of the Who.

This text needs to be integrated with article if possible (and if it's true).

Ellsworth 20:55, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I have removed the statement added by anon that Hoffman was a KGB agent. Can be re-added if referenced and attributed. Andries 11:08, 8 May 2005 (UTC)


 * it was vandalism, man. wow. Joeyramoney 00:07, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

A Nonymoustippler says:

Per Danny Goldberg, "How the Left Lost Teen Spirit" Abbie Hoffman grabbed a mic during The Who's set at Woodstock and protested Sinclair's arrest and was "literally kicked off the stage" by Townshend. (See p. 50) Goldberg says Townshend discusses this incident in a Rolling Stone interview years later.

Also according to Grossman, John Sinclair was the manager of the band "Detroit," had been the leader of the White Panthers, and was sentenced to ten years for possession of two joints in 1969. (see p. 55)

One of Abbie's quotes.

"We are here to make a better world. No amount of rationalization or blaming can preempt the moment of choice each of us brings to our situation here on this planet. The lesson of the 60's is that people who cared enough to do right could change history. We didn't end racism but we ended legal segregation. We ended the idea that you could send half-a-million soldiers around the world to fight a war that people do not support. We ended the idea that women are second-class citizens. We made the environment an issue that couldn't be avoided. The big battles that we won cannot be reversed. We were young, self-righteous, reckless, hypocritical, brave, silly, headstrong and scared half to death. And we were right." --Abbie Hoffman .-- Dak ota ?  e  23:14, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * did some clean up, expanded removed pov edit (Wikikipedia NPOV policy), wikified, added sources

Wikification
I wikified Abbie's bibliography to encouragew page cration. Steal this Encyclopedia!--Nick Dillinger 04:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

To add to this article: Dump the Pump campaign
An entry on this page regarding Abbie's last hurrah (protest-wise) should really be added. The Dump the Pump campaign to save the Delaware River was his last push -  one which involved a lot of us who were in school there at the time. This will be tough to do properly, as there aren't many sources for citation but I'll see what I can do - meantime - if anyone else can get a start on it - go for it!

Cheers.

Goatboy95 21:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Citation needed
"At Woodstock in 1969, Hoffman interrupted The Who's performance to attempt a protest speech against the jailing of John Sinclair of the White Panther Party. He grabbed a microphone and yelled, "I think this is a pile of shit! While John Sinclair rots in prison ...". The Who's guitarist, Pete Townshend, unhappy with the interruption, cut Hoffman off mid-sentence, snarling, "Fuck off! Fuck off my fucking stage!" He then struck Hoffman with his guitar, sending him tumbling offstage. Townshend later said he actually agreed with Hoffman on Sinclair's imprisonment, though he made the point that he would have knocked him offstage regardless of his message."

The above incident is disputed - see the Woodstock article. According to other Wikipedia articles, there is no photograph, film, or audio of this. Where is the original source of the incident? As Woodstock was widely documented, where is the documentation?

audio of this recording exists, as well as video. ask around on any live music site (www.thetradersden.org, etc). by the way, how do we cite bootleg recordings? - rhinowing (not logged in) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.199.4.13 (talk) 21:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

NPOV
This guy's antics are hilarious but the tone isn't neutral. The part about his suicide seems to insinuate foul play and link it to George Bush 41.

--149.125.200.78 06:57, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes the entire article reads like it was written by one person who read a favorable biography and recited it. I'm not real familar with the guy, but reading this article he sounds pretty cool.  Still, I think the facts speak for themselves and needn't be flavored (probably unintentionally) by the perspective of the author.
 * Also, it's got some structural problems; the 'suicide' section begins by talking about the aftermath of his suicide before mentioning the suicide itself, and includes some things which aren't relevant to that section.
 * Decent article overall, though.--Xiaphias 02:01, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Road Warrior?
Does that have any kind of definable meaning? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.83.200.20 (talk) 21:54, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
I removed some vandalism at the end of the section on his early life. I'm at work, so I couldn't sign up with a username. -Matt J. 68.115.248.42 (talk) 17:14, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Suicide
I am removing the reference to Abbie's suicide note until someone can provide a citation.

BTChicago 15:29, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I can't find one, but I can't find a citation for there not being a note. If you google for "It's Too Late, They've Gotten Too Powerful", you'll find loads of references to it.

Miserlou 22:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * In this article, it mentions that the only two members of the "Chicago Seven" to attend Abbie's funeral were Jerry Rubin and David Dellinger. In the article about Jerry Rubin, it says he and Tom Hayden were the only ones to attend.  So it seems Rubin was there.  Who was the other person?  - Nellie

NellieD 18:24, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Abbie investigates CIA suicide tactics? 68.247.255.172 (talk) 04:41, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

There was no suicide note. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AmericaH (talk • contribs) 20:10, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

There often isn't a note. Does it really seem plausible someone could accidentally take 150 pills? 128.172.27.93 (talk) 20:29, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Feb 2010 - "Fugitive & Cocaine"
I was possibly wrong to label the sentence as "pointy", but it certainly is WP:UNDUE in the lede of this article. Anyone out there agree or disagree? Doc9871 (talk) 10:13, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Missing movie
There's no mention of "My dinner with Abbie" a movie/interview he did in 1987 right before his 50th b-day. Not a great movie but very intimate. I think it should be mentioned - I don't wish or know how to edit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giQ_g__C8uw Thank you GeorgeRR —Preceding unsigned comment added by GeorgeRR (talk • contribs) 18:23, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Location of death
Someone might want to fix the location of death notation at the top of the page, beneath Abbie's photograph. The old turkey coop was located on Sugan Road in Solebury. Granted, solebury is a borough of New Hope but, to be more accurate - it should really read Solebury.Goatboy95 21:44, 16 October 2006 (UTC) Solebury is a Township in Bucks County; New Hope is its own separate borough. The place Hoffman died was in Solebury Township, not New Hope. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.165.27.104 (talk) 03:23, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * This has been fixed. Solebury is now used and is identified as "near New Hope." Allreet (talk) 22:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Chicago 8 Conspiracy Trial
Last two sentences read... "However, all convictions were subsequently overturned by the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals. The Kerner Commission later found that in fact it had been a "police riot.""

The Kerner Commission published it's report in February of 1968, several months prior to the riots during the Democratic National Convention. I think this sentence is referring to the much later report of the Walker Commission on Chicago Democratic Convention and the Chicago Police. One of the sentences in this report says, "To read dispassionately the hundreds of statements describing at firsthand the events of Sunday and Monday nights is to become convinced of the presence of what can only be called a police riot." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thewhitehouse10 (talk • contribs) 19:19, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Good catch. If I recall correctly, the Kerner commission studied the cause of race riots. Why don't you go ahead and fix the article? — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 21:13, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

I too caught this anachronism. Not sure why this hasn't been corrected. Changing Kerner Report to Walker report. BBODO (talk) 23:16, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Trial and conviction for US flag shirt?
I hadn't heard of Abbie Hoffman before today, but it seems that he's also famous for an incident where he was arrested and convicted for wearing a shirt made of a US flag, and the law has since been found to be unconstitutional.

Citations would include :

http://www.ep.tc/realist/84/ http://federal-circuits.vlex.com/vid/abbie-hoffman-united-states-america-36751463

I don't really know enough about this incident to feel qualified to add it, but it seems worthy ...

dougmc (talk) 20:47, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on Abbie Hoffman. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090606185320/http://www.newsday.com:80/about/ny-ihonyindex2004,0,6301617.htmlstory to http://www.newsday.com/about/ny-ihonyindex2004,0,6301617.htmlstory
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060207094531/http://www.teaching.com:80/earthday97/center/text/webstock19.htm to http://www.teaching.com/earthday97/center/text/webstock19.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120312033910/http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/foiaindex_h.htm to http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/foiaindex_h.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 08:10, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Jewish?
Is the fact that Hoffman was Jewish so important that it is literally the FIRST noun applied to him in this entry? I don't recall his religious background having much, if anything, to do with the things that make him a notable person. Surely it is information worth including, but it's not the lead. Roregan (talk) 15:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The lead has been changed. Allreet (talk) 04:12, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

In the infobox it says "Ethnicity: Jewish" Is that standard practise? – Religion and ethnicity are very different things. Are converts suddenly a different ethnicity? If you really need to have an ethnicity row; how about "Hebrew"? Forgive my ignorance if this is previously discussed and agreed upon. Mahanisse 19:13, 7 February 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahanisse (talk • contribs)

Characters based on Hoffman
As an important counter-cultural figurehead, a number of fictional characters have been created based upon Hoffman that the article could mention. For example, there's Phineas Freak, one of the three protagonists in Gilbert Shelton's The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers, and in the The X-Files episode Hollywood A.D., there appears one "Micah Hoffman", anarchist bomb-maker and top counter-cultural figurehead of the 1960s who went underground during the 70s, who's found dead at the beginning of the episode, seemingly having died when one of his own bombs went off unexpectedly. --2003:71:4E6A:B457:9D64:FBFA:3880:5109 (talk) 12:21, 19 November 2016 (UTC)


 * That's a great suggestion. So long as reliable sources have identified those characters as based on Hoffman. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 15:56, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

america Hoffman
While perhaps not worthy of his own entry, it should be noted by any editors that the son of Abbie and Anita was deliberately named with a lower case "a" for the name.

"(america later took the name Alan, who, along with David Dellinger and others, was one of the "Chicago 10" arrested during the 1996 Democratic Convention for trespassing inside Chicago Federal Building). "

This quote above is the current entry and it is incorrect. Maybe it was a cut and paste error? I adopted the name Alan while Abbie was underground to protect his identity. The name Alan was chosen because my grandfather's name (on Anita's side) was Alan and its a Jewish tradition to name a son after his grandfather, this name Alan was chosen in careful consideration to my grandmother on Anita's side Leah. Also there were no Chicago 10, there was a Chicago 8 though. I now go by the name America. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AmericaH (talk • contribs) 21:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm going to be bold and remove this lowercase "a" claim. Why?  Because absolutely no source has been provided.  A quick Google search reveals nothing except what appear to be WP mirrors.  The Guardian article that was linked to makes no such statement, and so seems to be an attempt by somebody at covering up a hoax by hoping that nobody will read the "source" in order to verify it.


 * If you can find a reliable source that states (a) that (b) why his name is "america", by all means reinstate it with this source. Otherwise, it's time we let it die.


 * While I'm at it, there seems to be disagreement over whether the name he later adopted is Alan or Allan. What evidence is there anyway that it is a name that it's a name he created for himself, as opposed to either (a) his real name (b) a middle name (c) something his parents started calling him? — Smjg (talk) 13:08, 12 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I've been bold and reverted you. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:56, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Despite the lowercase "a" spelling being in his birth certificate shouldn't it be A on the basis of "I spell my name with a capital ‘A’ because I was used to signing Alan with the first letter capitalized” in http://stompandstammer.com/feature-stories/america-hoffman-part-1/ published in 2015 shouldn't his name be spelled America? Mcljlm (talk) 23:58, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

links
most of the links at the bottom are broken. we need to either find the correct links to those pages or delete them. edit: this is me, i wasn't signed in. Bonus Onus 17:41, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * You mean the wiki links to the books? Not likely that they each have or ever had  a wiki page - just need to remove the brackets. Or are you talking about the footnotes? (I'll get it right one of these times) Tvoz 19:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * the footnotes. E.G. I tried to go to http://www.uic.edu/orgs/cwluherstory/jofreeman/photos/Pentagon67.html and it gave me a permission denied error — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.237.247.70 (talk) 11:36, 17 June 2018 (UTC)


 * there are a bunch of hoffman videos and spoken word files up on http://www.ubuweb.com -> http://www.ubu.com/sound/hoffman.html --71.143.26.139 04:37, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

== Director? ==

Abbie Hoffman did not direct any movies. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk)

"Better known as Abbie Hoffmann"
I have added a "citation needed" tag to this statement. As far as I have been able to determine, he was primarily known as Abbie Hoffman with one "n". That's certainly how he's listed on book credits, obituaries, other encyclopedia entries, etc. It's possible this was a typo by whoever added it. If so, please correct and remove the tag. 70.73.90.119 (talk) 15:41, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Lead image
We're in the fortunate position of having several images to choose from for the infobox image. Randy Kryn prefers. I prefer. Randy says "the existing image shows Hoffman in his element in 1969, the switched photo is soon before his death and does not represent the totality of his career while the other one is in the ballpark". Which is a fair point. However, I think a single image of a person shouldn't be asked to "represent the totality of their career" - it's just a picture, after all. I think it should show what the person looked like - a much more bearable job for a picture. Which, frankly the first doesn't, just because his face can barely be seen, and the second does. Also, color. Pinging the last few editors to edit the article - yes, I know, I know, you mostly just did minor tweaks, and aren't experts on Hoffman - but I think this isn't a question that requires a great deal of Hoffman expertise, most of us have a fair idea of what pictures are. Other opinions also welcome. --GRuban (talk) 17:39, 6 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi, I only have done a syntax correction on this page :) RG067 (talk) 17:56, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm conflicted. One main purpose of the lead image is to let the reader know he has arrived at the right place. The first photo looks more like the Abbie Hoffman I remember, so it maybe serves that purpose better. But the second image does a much better job of showing what he looks like, and is more recent. Color doesn't matter to me, I don't understand the modern obsession with color photos but I know many people prefer them. I suppose I have a slight preference for the second image. But if we do use that for the lead, the 1969 image should be prominently displayed in the article. GA-RT-22 (talk) 18:05, 6 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Strong Support for the photograph which has been the lead image on the page (coincidently) since July 6, 2009, an exactly 12-year span where it has represented what Hoffman looked and acted like in his heyday. The color image from 1981 is much closer to Hoffman's 1989 death and seems to represent the alleged depression that he was in before his legally ruled suicide. In any case, there are already two images of Hoffman in the 1980s, and the new one is certainly not representative of what Hoffman looked like in his notable years. Randy Kryn (talk) 18:33, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Support the tighter headshot I totally appreciate that people want images of Hoffman from when he was a recognizable activist but the headshot is a clearer image of his face and represents his "look" from a lot of the later part of his life. I respect that this image in particular was from a time close to his death but it was also how he looked when he was at demonstrations in the late 70s and 1980s when he was still very active in political movements. I feel like both images are important, but I would place the headshot in the infobox. Jessamyn (talk) 22:39, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Support the second image for the reasons given by GART22 and Jessamyn. The photo on the demo is important but it doesn't belong in an infobox, it should be elsewhere in the article. An infobox picture should focus on what someone looks like. Richard75 (talk) 13:52, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

It's been a few days without opinions, and that's as close to Consensus as we usually get. As GA-RT-22 writes, we'll use that for the lead, and display the 1969 image prominently lower in the article. --GRuban (talk) 12:50, 12 July 2021 (UTC)