Talk:Abduction of Cleo Smith

Article name
While it now seems that charges may be laid, this article name should not be changed to "Abduction of" or "Kidnapping of" until any such charges are proved, in accordance with WP:BLPCRIME. WWGB (talk) 05:48, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I disagree. 'Abduction' and 'kidnapping' are generic terms, they are not dependent on a case outcome like e.g. 'manslaughter'. Cleo was abducted. There are numerous other articles beginning with abduction of and kidnapping of, and a quick browse indicates that convictions have been obtained in only a handful of those. GeebaKhap (talk) 10:56, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is never a convincing argument. WWGB (talk) 11:26, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Fortunately GeebaKhap's argument falls into Consistency in article titles and not WP:OTHERSTUFF which is AfD advice. 5225C (talk &bull; contributions) 11:48, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Suspect name
Seven News article re: the suspect's name appears to have been taken down now - archival link shows the individual identified but it's no longer up. Think for now, until another reliable source verifies anything, that it would be best to keep the name unidentified as before. --LivelyRatification (talk) 06:21, 3 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Seven West apologises for wrongfully identifying man over Cleo Smith’s abduction. WWGB (talk) 03:55, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

"Reactions" section
Thanks for doing that WWGB. It occurred to me after my last edit that the article needs this, but I can only do so much editing during the day :) Adpete (talk) 05:48, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Picture of the Premier
Is it really necessary? Unless it's an actual photo of him speaking about these events or him visiting Carnavon which he did a few days ago. LibStar (talk) 04:10, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * No. It adds no value. See MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE. Even a picture of him speaking about the events would add no value. A picture of him with Cleo, perhaps would. Mitch Ames (talk) 04:14, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Just thought including a photo in the article might have been good. --LivelyRatification (talk) 09:08, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Further comment on article name
The present name of this article, "Kidnapping of Cleo Smith", is inappropriate.

Cleo was not kidnapped. Under Western Australian law, kidnapping occurs only in the circumstances listed in the Criminal Code, section 332, ie the offender detains a person with intent to (eg) "(d) Compel the doing of an act by a person who is lawfully entitled to abstain from doing that act, by threat, or by demand, or by threat and by demand."

In this case, there was no intent in relation to any of the four matters listed in the section. There was also, eg, no threat or demand. Not surprisingly, the offender was therefore not charged with, and did not plead guilty to, any kidnapping. He was charged with, and pleaded guilty to, a different offence.

The appropriate name for the article is "Abduction of Cleo Smith", which is what actually happened, ie Cleo was unlawfully taken away from her parents, and that is all. Bahnfrend (talk) 14:02, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Sounds reasonable. I've renamed the article. Mitch Ames (talk) 04:47, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Criminal proceedings
This section is clumsily written, confusing, and seemingly incomplete. I cannot tell if anyone has been convicted, or if we are waiting on something to happen, or what? Can someone who knows what's going on please add some clarification? HiLo48 (talk) 06:48, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * UPDATE: My concerns above have ben addressed. thank you WWGB. HiLo48 (talk) 21:19, 31 March 2023 (UTC)