Talk:Abdul Ghaffar Khan/Archive 1

Biography assessment rating comment
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Zak 14:32, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Copyvio
The second half of the article is copy-pasted from PUKTOONKHWA HOME PAGE Tintin 01:51, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Removed it. Italo 19:52, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Failing GA
I am removing this from the list of GA candidates for the following reasons:
 * It's not NPOV. Portions of the text read like a puff piece; the language is overly sympathetic and could use significant copyediting by a neutral observer. Maybe send to Peer Review?
 * It's not well enough sourced. Some quotations are given without a reference. The list of works at the end should be augmented with more inline citations.

Chubbles 19:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

criticism
I have made changes to criticism as sourced through footnote number 9. Footnote No.9 is not criticising Ghaffar Khan for his "liberalism" but rather his inconsistency and flirtations with religious leaders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.99.187.31 (talk) 14:10, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Ghaffar was not Indian? He was a Pakistani Pashtun
Can we really consider Ghaffar Khan to be Indian, despite his being Pashtun? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.255.202.121 (talk) 18:25, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree, Ghaffar Khan was not indian!! is this some kind of joke, why would somebody write something as incorrect as that? has this article been hijacked??? what kind of mis-information is this?? because the british annexed his lands and joined it to South Asia for what 40-60 years. Ghaffar Khan was a Pashtun, a Muslim and later pledged his allegiance to Pakistan.

Uh, he can be "Indian" for the following reasons:

a. It was British India so he was a citizen of it b. He himself said he was fighting for Pashtun self rule within a united India. c. He believed in Hindu-Muslim unity and was firmly against the demand for Pakistan; was an ally of Mahatma Gandhi d. Pakistan, as he himself said on numerous occasions, was against what he fought for and believed in. e. He pledged allegiance to it yes, not because he supported it but because for him destruction didn't solve anything so the best he could do was make good of the Pashtun condition in the new state of Paistan f. Despite his promise of loyalty for the sake of bettering his people, he was not treated as a "Pakistani" leader and was imprisoned by said state for a good half of his life. g. He pretty much gave up on Pakistan in the last years of his life as he spent his concluding years in Afghanistan. How about that?


 * Above, is a highly biased opinion:

a) British India seized to exist on 14th August 1947, hence Ghaffar Khan lost any supposed 'Indian' status to his citizenship.

b, c & d) All three points are self-contradictory. If he was a believer in Hindu-Muslim unity, he would not 'fight' for Pashtun self-rule since that would only divide Hindus & Muslims. He was no more a proponent of Hindu-Muslim unity than Pakistan's founder, Ali Jinnah - who had single-handedly drafted the Lucknow Pact, something that was considered an exemplary template of Hindu-Muslim unity. As late as 1946 Jinnah & Muslim League tried everything to keep India united but it was Hindu-dominated Congress that paved way for partition by rejecting Cabinet Mission Plan.

e) He pledged allegiance to Pakistan to save his political career since the majority of Pashtuns in N.W.F.P had started turning against him, seeing him as a traitor who favored Hindu India over Muslim Pakistan.

f & g) That was a natural result of the political turmoil amidst which he continued to make conflicting claims of allegiance.Ron Pitz (talk) 21:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Not really. I'm actually a Pakistani Pashtun. But I'm interested in facts. Answer to your points

a.) Your point is moot. It ceased to exist yes, but that doesn't erase the fact that he was technically born an Indian and fought for said country.

b.) Fighting for "Pashtun self rule" does not entail independence necessarily. As he said then, and as he continued to say after partition to his Pakistani critics, he believed in Pashtun autonomy within a federal structure of a larger country (then India, later Pakistan). I agree with you on the Jinnah points, but the fact remains Ghaffar Khan was strongly allied to the Gandhian-Congressite program. His original ideals were more in line with their vision than with that of Pakistan movement. No judgement is being pronounced here on which is correct or not.

e.) This doesn't really answer my point, rather proves it. He was originally pro-India, but sought to salvage his movement by allying with Pakistan (though perhaps not in the way you phrase it) He wasn't necessarily "power-hungry".

f.g.) There was a political tumult, but he didn't make conflicting claims of allegiance due to confusion. He stood by his ideal until partition became inevitable. Rather than fighting for the unattainable, he sought to be realistic and work with what he had, Pakistan (though he briefly proposed a third option of self-rule from both India and Pakistan when disowned by the Congress).

This is all backed up by any neutral historian of NWFP and Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan. How about them apples ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.255.187.41 (talk) 01:49, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, he did stand for a united India and was opposed to the formation of Pakistan. As such, he did consider himself an Indian before partition. However, after partition, he famously stated that while he was unhappy with the formation of Pakistan, it became a reality and he would henceforth be loyal to Pakistan. I feel sorry for him, and the disappointments he went through in life. Joyson Prabhu  Holla at me!   09:13, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Use of 'Bharat Ratna' as title
The Constitution of India expressly prohibits use of titles, except for military and academic ones. There has been lot of debate regarding use of titles such as 'Bharat Ratna', 'Padma Sri', 'Padma Vibhushan' etc. I believe there was even a govt. notification that an awardee may not use the term as a title.

Discussion, please.Circumcised (talk) 20:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Traitor Pakistan
Please Add column Traitor Pakistan. because he is Traitor Pakistan he is not a pakistani he is indian Pushtun orgin. мαℓιк ℓιαqυαт™ (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:46, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

He is neither. He was Afghan because he was an ethnic Pashtun. Bacha Khan never wanted the Pashtun areas of Pakistan to be formed into a new country, he wanted unification of Pashtuns with Afghanistan and a united India for both Muslims and Hindus. Therefore giving him labels such as "Pakistani Pashtun" or Indian Pashtun" is plain silly since neither of those countries existed back then. Honestly, i think Afghan should just be added to the ethnicity but i don't see a concensus on that happening anytime soon. Akmal94 (talk) 09:58, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

External links content to be put into article prose?

 * Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan: Pakistan’s Forgotten Quaid (NewAgeIslam)
 * Badshah Khan (biography at mkgandhi.org)
 * The Frontier Gandhi: Badshah Khan, a Torch for Peace
 * Amitabh Pal: A pacifist uncovered

ツStacey (talk) 14:55, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110716215841/http://www.timeoutdelhi.net/client_coverstory/client_coverstory_details.asp?code=327 to http://www.timeoutdelhi.net/client_coverstory/client_coverstory_details.asp?code=327

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External links modified
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060617033759/http://www.easwaran.org/nilgiri.cfm?pageid=28&itemid=00-1 to http://www.easwaran.org/nilgiri.cfm?pageid=28&itemid=00-1

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:06, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Abdul Ghafar Khan, Nehru, and Sardar Patel 1946.jpg

Requested move 13 July 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Moved per clear consensus supported by evidence of usage. (non-admin closure) Dicklyon (talk) 03:14, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Bacha Khan → Abdul Ghaffar Khan – This is the subject's real name, as identified in the LEAD. Bacha Khan might be a nick name, but its use is not sufficient to make it a WP:COMMONNAME. There are numerous books about the subject titled with his real name, as indicated below. Kautilya3 (talk) 15:00, 13 July 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Steven   Crossin  Help resolve disputes! 15:27, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Some sources that use the real name in their titles:, , , , , , , , , , , , ,. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:07, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Now a days "Bacha Khan" seems to be the more popular name to refer to him and many prominent things are named after him as "Bacha Khan". See for example Bacha Khan University (Charsadda) and Bacha Khan International Airport (Peshawar). Khestwol (talk) 04:21, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, but when things are named after a person, they tend to use WP:HONORIFICS. But the article title should be based on WP:COMMONNAME found in reliable sources. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:05, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Support Google Books Ngram results show 'Abdul Ghaffar Khan' to be significantly more common than 'Bacha Khan'. And while several nicknames including 'Bacha Khan', 'Badshah Khan', and 'Frontier Gandhi' have been used occasionally, the real name is the one used in obituaries published in New York Times, Washington Post, Associated Press, LA Times etc as well as Encyclopedia Britannica. Note that the article was moved from Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan to its current name based on a "Uncontroversial technical requests" placed by User:Khestwol in 2017, and except for the status quo bias, I am not seeing a reason for not using the common- and real-name, Abdul Ghaffar Khan, as the article tile. Abecedare (talk) 16:49, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per the excellent research posted by Abecedare. re ngrams, I will point out that Badshah Khan gives Abdul Ghaffar Khan much more serious competition, though it still doesn't beat it. Aside from ngrams, the Britannica and English news sources provide a strong argument for Abdul Ghaffar Khan being the WP:COMMONNAME. Colin M (talk) 00:21, 2 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Contradiction?
In January 2020 editor Azmarai76 marked the section on "Arrest and exile" as appearing to contradict itself. Unfortunately, Azmarai76 did not leave any indication on the talk page (talk archive checked) as to what the contradiction might be. Azmarai76 placed the tag immediately following "as buried in his house at Jalalabad, Afghanistan.[41] Over 200,000 mourners attended his funeral, including the Afghan president Mohammad Najibullah. This was a symbolic move by Bacha Khan, as this would allow his dream of Pashtun unification to live even after his death." I reason that the phrase "was a symbolic move by Bacha Khan" must refer to funeral arrangements made before his death, and not to the facts of the antecedent sentence. Specifically, I suppose it to mean the symbolic march through the Khyber Pass from Peshawar to Jalalabad. If that is the problem, a simple rewrite should fix it. Otherwise what do other editors see as problematic here? Unfortunately, Azmarai76 has not edited since December 2020. --Bejnar (talk) 21:17, 13 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Finding no discussion on this, in almost two weeks, I will attempt the fix. --Bejnar (talk) 02:00, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:07, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Mohammad Najibullah at Funeral.png

Suggestion
The years he spent in jail are not mentioned here !!!! 119.73.99.254 (talk) 21:32, 19 May 2023 (UTC)